Holley's Hydramat is now shipping - fuel starve solution?
 

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/hydramat/

I'm thinking that using the 15"x8" cross mat, positioned so that the mat lays over the driveshaft hump and into both sides of the fuel sump, hooked to an additional intank pump which will pump a feed line back to the stock unit and dump fuel into the plastic "pickup can" may be the trick. The whole goal is just to keep that can full of fuel.

If it works it will be huge. I plan on testing this. I'd love any insight you have.

Let us know how it works after you build it :)

interested in the results... sub'd

Any updates on this? Very interested in a solution

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If this thing works the way they are showing why the second pump? It seems that if you get the longer mat that goes over the hump the fuel starvation problem should be solved.

I've been researching this for a while myself. I'm looking at possibly "T"ing 2 of the 8X3's together on the outer sides of the tank (they're held by magnets). Jegs has them at a pretty good prices. Anyone know off hand what size the pick up hose used in our cars is?

Thoughts ?

Thanks :tiphat:

Man I keep looking at the fuel pump pic in the manual (not having pulled it to look at it) but am I missing something? It does not look like you can attach an external pick up to the stock unit. The manual says "Never disassemble fuel filter and fuel pump assembly." which looks to be the only way to connect the Hydromat as you need a way to feed the pump from outside of the bucket.

Any insight phunk, guys??? :confused:

i seem to remember phunk saying something about that exact thing. that it is difficult/impossible to simply tap in to the stock pickup line.

Yeah I hit up Rusty for some thoughts & he said pretty much the same. Looks like Phunk will be getting some more business before too long. :cool:

What if you replaced the stock pump with an aftermarket unit like an aem or something? Do you need to use the stock pickup then?

Well i can tell u now the only one that will work is the 30x15 or maybe the 24x14 one, in any case, now u need a pump pickup to be different, or different setup completely. Still insanely expensive.



Edit: took a second look, and it seems like they just use the fuel filter and made a pad out to f it, the good thing about fuel filters is they saturate in fuel verry well.

Some food for thought on this.

-You are looking at about 30-32" of span to reach from the bottom of the fuel pump to the floor of the drivers side of the tank.

-the factory fuel pump resides in a "module". It is surrounded by the fuel filter, and then a canister that is *supposed* to act as surge protection. Obviously the canister doesnt do its job - probably because the majority of its displacement is spent on the pump, filter, regulator, etc etc... and its pathetically shallow at only 4" deep when the tank is more like 10" deep. At any rate, quite bit of modification woudl be required to make the factory fuel pump module accept a fuel pickup that isnt a compact little unit that attaches directly to the bottom of the pump and never leaves the confines of the canister.

-The fuel pump, and anything you would easily replace it with (AEM, Walbro, Aeromotive, DW) uses a standard in-tank fuel pump inlet attachment style that the Hydramat does not conform to. some sort of adapter fitting would need to be manufactured to attach anything other than a standard in-tank pump pickup to the bottom of the pump.

My predictions are that nobody is going to successfully implement a Hydramat to a 370z without building a custom fuel pump module/hanger that holds the pump higher up and gets rid of all the complexities of the factory fuel pump module. This would also entail running an external filter and regulator (custom return fuel system). Anyone is welcome to take this prediction as a challenge and motivation to prove me wrong! But if anyone wants to try and build a custom fuel pump hanger for their car, I sell and have in stock universal billet fuel tank flanges with electrical bulkhead connectors and threaded bosses just waiting for whatever custom bracketry someone wants to build and bolt up to it.

Phunk,
Thank you shedding some light on the situation & http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/smilies/idea.gifhttp://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/smilies/piss.gif

Jk :tiphat:

Thread revival...

I thought to PM OP, but last time he logged in was Nov 2015.

I was browsing Z1's website and came across this Z1 kit, sounds a lot like what OP said?

Literature from Z1's site:

"The Z1 Motorsports Fuel Anti-Starvation Kit solves this issue by utilizing a secondary fuel pump which transfers fuel from the left-hand sump of the fuel tank directly into the OEM fuel pump basket. Thoroughly track tested at Road Atlanta, this kit eliminates the fuel starvation problem on a clockwise track particularly prone to cause fuel starvation problems on later model Nissan Z models."

I was talking to Spence from Z1 at ZDayZ. He was telling me about this kit. They use it on their race cars with no problems.

Couldn't find any install procedures for it, but the price is right. I wonder if the 2nd pump is just zip tied in as I do not see a bracket. Everything else looks pretty straight forward.

[QUOTE=Rusty;3489153]I was talking to Spence from Z1 at ZDayZ. He was telling me about this kit. They use it on their race cars with no problems.[/QUOTE

There not going to tell you anything different lol. Only time will tell. Someone will come along that doesn't want to spend on the CJM kit (hopefully someone who really drives the car hard on the track) and test it until it breaks. Only question i have, how long does that mat stay good for? Are you able to use different types of fuels and if that 2nd pump is zipped tied, is that zip able to with stand constant lateral G abuse. Phunk made a good statement about this product already.

I use a 15x15 in a fuel cell in our race car (not a Z) 15gl tank

We tried 2 fuel pick ups from rock crawlers and we suffered fuel starvation after the 9 go mark
After we went with a surge tank and 2 pumps , worked better but under high G loads the car would sputter and even shut off

Finally we went to the Hydramat and all fuel starvation problems are gone , only problem with the huge mat we use is , when you out of gas.....you getting trailered in ha ha

I would suspect what Z1 is doing with this setup would perform. As a self-proclaimed fuel system engineer, I am not 100% satisfied with the operating theory. But it is nothing I would attack, especially at the price point and simplicity.

This is a bit different than what I was talking about in my previous post to this thread, where I was addressing the project of adapting a Hydramat to the factory fuel pump module, which I predicted we would not see happen.

This kit is something the market needed. As much as I would obviously prefer to get every last sale I can... it is no secret that my production has not kept up with demand, or that my product is in a price range that not everyone can justify for their project.

This Z1 product is 43% the cost. I hope it offers some perspective to my customers as to why my product is priced where it is when you compare how much custom hardware each product is comprised of.

I am more than confident that my RRP can outperform this new product release, as no other solution without a integrated surge canister can offer the same fluid control. But I think Z1 made a smart move by offering an alternative product at a different price point than my RRP.

If it helps more Z's get out there and kickass and show off, it ultimately helps all businesses in the business of Z's.

touche

I am really looking into getting this kit to prevent starvation issues at Mid-Ohio. My car is a DD with occasional track use and I am just wondering, on quarter tank of fuel or less on the road, say turning left to get onto the highway and then cruising down a straight highway, would this new pump starve and get ruined because all the fuel is to the passenger area and can't get above the hump? Interested to hear your opinion, Phunk.

Yes any pump on the driver side of the tank used on the street under any conditions will be starving constantly unless you keep the tank over half full or turn it off.

Sub'd

That's what I was afraid of. So to really make a bulletproof system you'd have to get a T or Y fitting and put another HydraMat on the passenger side so no matter what the driver side pump is always getting fed. Probably going to be another $250 going that route.

How hard would it be to wire a switch in to the cabin for the second pump? Put it next to the traction/stability bypass switch and engage when necessary?

Ya, that's what I realized would be much easier and cheaper. I am planning on drilling a hole in the top of the sending unit and mounting a rubber plug that I'll put 2 small holes in and run the wires through them to and from the switch. The holes will be undersized so hopefully there won't be any leakage. I've also verified the plugs can handle gasoline and won't deteriorate. I am also planning to put the switch in one of my dead spaces where the heated seat switches would go as I don't have heated seats. I think this should work out really well. It seems Z1 just needed to do a bit more engineering and they would have nailed a perfect and reasonably cheap solution to the fuel-starvation issue for road and track use.

Thread bump, because I'm pulling this trigger on a fuel starve solution before events start up again in the spring...

What's Z1's kit missing, or has as a potential deal-breaker?
Is it that both pumps are constantly running?

Both pumps run all the time. I have one installed and it has performed as advertised. I don't daily drive mine very much anymore and I run e85 with 1000cc injectors so mpgs don't matter to me as much as having a reliable fuel system at the track.

Just an update on my experience with the Z1 anti-fuel starvation kit. This weekend I ran my fuel content down to two dots or less on 3 separate occasions and had no issues with fuel starvation regardless of hard continuous right hand turn or hard full throttle runs.

Edit: Phunk point out that I don't know my left from my right as originally posted left hand turn! Oh and Rusty could help to point out my back asswards think!!!!:tiphat:

They dont fuel starve on left hand turns to begin with :)

phunk, he's assbackwards. When he wants to 69. It 96 to him. :rofl2:

:rofl2: well now i am genuinely curious if he typed it wrong or if he tested it wrong :inoutroflpuke:

I don't know if I was going cw or ccw lol. Yes, I meant right and thanks for all the support brother Rusty. The right hander is about a 75 mhp sweeper. Good thing I took some video or I may have stayed confused.:p

Just ordered mine yesterday. Has anyone installed a kill-switch for the kit? Tips on location or hardware?

Been running the hydramat for 1.5 seasons now. Cant believe it resolved all my issues...I actually ran out of fuel on the final lap of my last session last year. No more starve!

Need to add a kill switch myself. Any sort of daily driving can be annoying because you never get proper fuel readings.

@phunk - Yes, I'm running the Z1 anti-starvation kit, featuring the hydramat, and yes, it cured it completely...at least for me so far.

I have data showing the G's I pull and i thought maybe it would help a bit, but boy was I wrong! I have the mat on the drivers side, sucking up into the pump and flowing it directly into the basket of the main pump. POOF! Starvation gone. On mainly three tracks with it....Pocono North Course. NJMP Lightning and Thunderbolt.

I'm sure a higher level driver on a longer sweeping right, with 1/4 tank or less could get it to trigger, but I have to say, I was happy with the results. Couldn't get it to stutter until I actually ran out of fuel.

I have been running mine almost as long as you with the same results.

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That is what I would expect to hear from it! The starvation is a result of not having a fuel pickup on the left side of the tank. By adding one, you should not have even the slightest amount of fuel starvation.

Ran my first track day with this in and never had fuel starve hit. Tank went down to 8 gallons, so under half empty. Before I'd get fuel starve at 3/4 a tank.
Only negative is that I must have bent something in the install, because my fuel gauge lights are reading 4 dots lower than they should now.