Formula-1 2017...!!

axmea? · 10-24-2017, 03:36 AM

NO! The fact that many others did it without penalty is the issue. F1 has been plagued with inconsistencies. From Senna to Schumacher to now.

MaysEffect · 10-24-2017, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by axmea?

NO! The fact that many others did it without penalty is the issue. F1 has been plagued with inconsistencies. From Senna to Schumacher to now.

No one else cut a corner this race to make a pass.

Yes people have gone off track, but usually they were done in corners with some exclusions. Turn 19 for instance is a double berm corner with no yellow bumps or work around cones. Going off there is not a major problem by yourself. Going off line to make a pass, is a completely different argument.

There was nothing inconsistent or out of line about this situation. I think the only problem (if you can call it that), is it stripped Max from an amazing race finish which we believe he deserved. That isn't justification for making and exception to a clear illegal pass. Had it been at Monaco, he would have never been able to get the pass like that.

alcheng · 10-24-2017, 04:03 AM

I thought it was a clean and brilliant move while watching it live...

then I watched the video, the one I posted...

obviously the steward(s) has upset many many people and fans..

however, verstappen did cut the corner, and not by couple inches, but his whole car was inside the white line, not by and inch, but a marginal measure.

many people argue he's not the only one who exceed the track limit and it's not fair cos he's the only one who got penalized, however, in fact, he's the only one who cut through the corner and gain a position.

the thing is, we have to look at it in a reverse angle:

IF, verstappen keep his car within the track limit, ie with a tad of his car still outside the white line, even it's 1%, can he pass raikkonen?

he won't be able to pass cos there's wasn't enough room, otherwise he won't needed to go over the island to complete the pass.

thus the penalty.

it's a piss-off, but it is valid.

Hotrodz · 10-24-2017, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alcheng

I thought it was a clean and brilliant move while watching it live...

then I watched the video, the one I posted...

obviously the steward(s) has upset many many people and fans..

however, verstappen did cut the corner, and not by couple inches, but his whole car was inside the white line, not by and inch, but a marginal measure.

many people argue he's not the only one who exceed the track limit and it's not fair cos he's the only one who got penalized, however, in fact, he's the only one who cut through the corner and gain a position.

the thing is, we have to look at it in a reverse angle:

IF, verstappen keep his car within the track limit, ie with a tad of his car still outside the white line, even it's 1%, can he pass raikkonen?

he won't be able to pass cos there's wasn't enough room, otherwise he won't needed to go over the island to complete the pass.

thus the penalty.

it's a piss-off, but it is valid.

I agree with your assessment of this situation as I believe the officials got it right. I feel for Max as his drive was the drive of the day for sure. I also am in agreement with axmea? that the official inconsistent in their issuance of penalties. It is always hit or miss on what they will enforce and to what degree.

alcheng · 10-24-2017, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

I agree with your assessment of this situation as I believe the officials got it right. I feel for Max as his drive was the drive of the day for sure. I also am in agreement with axmea? that the official inconsistent in their issuance of penalties. It is always hit or miss on what they will enforce and to what degree.

the inconsistent... I think... they also have to evaluate what did the driver gain from that move.

if the driver didn't gain anything, thus they don't give out any penalty.

Hotrodz · 10-24-2017, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alcheng

the inconsistent... I think... they also have to evaluate what did the driver gain from that move.

if the driver didn't gain anything, thus they don't give out any penalty.

I get that but all we have do is look at the penalty they gave Vettel for intentionally running into Hamilton that should have been significant enough to keep him out of the points if not a dq. He only got five more seconds than Max and his actions were deplorable no matter how you slice it or spit hairs.

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Zoren 370 · 10-25-2017, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

I get that but all we have do is look at the penalty they gave Vettel for intentionally running into Hamilton that should have been significant enough to keep him out of the points if not a dq. He only got five more seconds than Max and his actions were deplorable no matter how you slice it or spit hairs.

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The reason because it's a Ferrari. F1 is highly political sport dictated by powerful car manufacturers. Let say it was Daniel Kyvat did than on Hamilton, instantly he would possibly get the DQ or ban.

Hotrodz · 10-25-2017, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoren 370

The reason because it's a Ferrari. F1 is highly political sport dictated by powerful car manufacturers. Let say it was Daniel Kyvat did than on Hamilton, instantly he would possibly get the DQ or ban.

My point exactly...it depends!

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MaysEffect · 10-26-2017, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

I get that but all we have do is look at the penalty they gave Vettel for intentionally running into Hamilton that should have been significant enough to keep him out of the points if not a dq. He only got five more seconds than Max and his actions were deplorable no matter how you slice it or spit hairs.

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It was deplorable, but it was either a black flag or marginally punishable. Considering he wasn't going to get black flagged (he didn't cause any real damage or put someone's life in danger), giving a 10 second stop n' go was actually a worthy punishment. Only shame there was Mercedes also made a boneheaded mistake with Hamilton's car thus costing him the win.

http://autoweek.com/article/formula-...was-table-baku

The two instances and penalties are nothing alike. Had max had 5-10 more laps, it's arguable he would have put 5 seconds between him and Kimi and possibly caught Vettel.

Hell if FIA actually stood for Ferrari Internationale Associazione they would have given Hamilton a DQ for "braking checking" Vettel lol. And would've given Verstappen a 5 place grid penalty

.

MaysEffect · 10-26-2017, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoren 370

The reason because it's a Ferrari. F1 is highly political sport dictated by powerful car manufacturers. Let say it was Daniel Kyvat did than on Hamilton, instantly he would possibly get the DQ or ban.

Oddly enough most of the FIA appointed drivers stewards are British or French with no association to Ferrari (apart from Brawn, although he is not a race steward). Matter of fact most of them have closer ties to Renault and Lotus than they do Ferrari. So it's actually more surprising that Ferrari ever gets any slack.

DLSTR · 10-26-2017, 12:05 PM

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...k-limits-rules

FIA tightens track limits rules for Formula 1's Mexican Grand Prix

The FIA has imposed new track limits rules at Mexico City's first corner following the problems that marred Formula 1's 2016 Mexican Grand Prix.

On the first lap last year, Lewis Hamilton cut across the grass after running wide at Turn 1 and rejoined the circuit still in the lead.

Race stewards did not believe he had gained a lasting advantage from the incident, so did not order him to concede position to Nico Rosberg.

There was bigger controversy later when Max Verstappen ran across the grass in an identical way while defending against Sebastian Vettel.

Verstappen went on to take third place on the road, but was handed a penalty post-race - dropping him off the podium - because stewards felt he had unfairly benefited.

Speed bumps, which are 50mm high, have been installed on the left hand kerb between Turns 1 and 2, with a second series of them situated between Turns 2 and 3.

In a note sent by F1 race director Charlie Whiting to teams ahead of the Mexican race, he has made clear that drivers will now have to go around the second series of speed bumps before they rejoin the track - which in theory will cost them time.

"For safety reasons, any driver who either passes to the left of or runs over the orange kerb sections on the driver's left between Turns 1 and 2, or who passes to the left of the bollard on the apex of Turn 2, must rejoin the track by driving around the end of the orange kerb sections on the driver's left between Turns 2 and 3," Whiting wrote.

Further limits have been placed at Turns 8 and 11, where other speed bumps have been put down.

Whiting added: "For safety reasons, any driver whose car passes completely behind the kerb on the apex of Turn 8 must rejoin the track by keeping wholly to the right of the orange kerb parallel to the track on the exit of the corner.

"For safety reasons, any driver whose car passes completely behind the kerb on the apex of Turn 11 must rejoin the track by keeping wholly to the left of the orange kerb parallel to the track on the exit of the corner."

Hotrodz · 10-26-2017, 01:20 PM

^^^ Much better in mho! I the same for everyone period!

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DLSTR · 10-26-2017, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

^^^ Much better in mho! I the same for everyone period!

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As fans we hope this works!

Hotrodz · 10-26-2017, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLSTR

As fans we hope this works!

Agreed!

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alcheng · 10-26-2017, 02:44 PM

yes, hopefully less drama and more racing.

10-24-2017, 03:36 AM	#286 (permalink)
axmea? A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,234 Drives: WELL ZED PW 6MT Rep Power: 53241	NO! The fact that many others did it without penalty is the issue. F1 has been plagued with inconsistencies. From Senna to Schumacher to now. JARblue and Hotrodz like this. __________________ >MyZ's Album< NISMO Convert/ECUTEK/Takeda CAI/F.I. HFC NR CB Carbon/F.I. 34 Row Oil Cooler/4.08 Final Drive /Powertrix+Swifts/Hotchkis/SPL/Whiteline/TWM/Zoom Engineering/EVO-R/AeroJacket Vented CF Fenders + CF Spoiler/Avant Garde-WORK/NST/Morimoto Halo/STi Clear Lenses/Carbon Signal Automotive/RJM Performance/ZSpeed Clutch Flywheel CSC delete Last edited by axmea?; 10-24-2017 at 03:39 AM.

10-24-2017, 04:03 AM	#288 (permalink)
alcheng A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Toronto Posts: 28,893 Drives: 2011 ZR PW w/Clutch Rep Power: 418352	I thought it was a clean and brilliant move while watching it live... then I watched the video, the one I posted... obviously the steward(s) has upset many many people and fans.. however, verstappen did cut the corner, and not by couple inches, but his whole car was inside the white line, not by and inch, but a marginal measure. many people argue he's not the only one who exceed the track limit and it's not fair cos he's the only one who got penalized, however, in fact, he's the only one who cut through the corner and gain a position. the thing is, we have to look at it in a reverse angle: IF, verstappen keep his car within the track limit, ie with a tad of his car still outside the white line, even it's 1%, can he pass raikkonen? he won't be able to pass cos there's wasn't enough room, otherwise he won't needed to go over the island to complete the pass. thus the penalty. it's a piss-off, but it is valid. Last edited by alcheng; 10-24-2017 at 04:06 AM.

10-26-2017, 12:05 PM	#296 (permalink)
DLSTR A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Süd Germany Posts: 2,462 Drives: 21Supra 2.0/22 M240i Rep Power: 21267	https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...k-limits-rules FIA tightens track limits rules for Formula 1's Mexican Grand Prix The FIA has imposed new track limits rules at Mexico City's first corner following the problems that marred Formula 1's 2016 Mexican Grand Prix. On the first lap last year, Lewis Hamilton cut across the grass after running wide at Turn 1 and rejoined the circuit still in the lead. Race stewards did not believe he had gained a lasting advantage from the incident, so did not order him to concede position to Nico Rosberg. There was bigger controversy later when Max Verstappen ran across the grass in an identical way while defending against Sebastian Vettel. Verstappen went on to take third place on the road, but was handed a penalty post-race - dropping him off the podium - because stewards felt he had unfairly benefited. Speed bumps, which are 50mm high, have been installed on the left hand kerb between Turns 1 and 2, with a second series of them situated between Turns 2 and 3. In a note sent by F1 race director Charlie Whiting to teams ahead of the Mexican race, he has made clear that drivers will now have to go around the second series of speed bumps before they rejoin the track - which in theory will cost them time. "For safety reasons, any driver who either passes to the left of or runs over the orange kerb sections on the driver's left between Turns 1 and 2, or who passes to the left of the bollard on the apex of Turn 2, must rejoin the track by driving around the end of the orange kerb sections on the driver's left between Turns 2 and 3," Whiting wrote. Further limits have been placed at Turns 8 and 11, where other speed bumps have been put down. Whiting added: "For safety reasons, any driver whose car passes completely behind the kerb on the apex of Turn 8 must rejoin the track by keeping wholly to the right of the orange kerb parallel to the track on the exit of the corner. "For safety reasons, any driver whose car passes completely behind the kerb on the apex of Turn 11 must rejoin the track by keeping wholly to the left of the orange kerb parallel to the track on the exit of the corner." axmea? and Hotrodz like this.

10-26-2017, 01:20 PM	#297 (permalink)
Hotrodz Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: NW, AZ Posts: 9,330 Drives: 10 Nissan 370z Nismo Rep Power: 2684384	^^^ Much better in mho! I the same for everyone period! Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk __________________ *Fast Intentions TT Installed and Tuned by Seb at SpecialtyZ 610whp 560tq:\|Fast Intentions 3" TT-TDX*\|SpecialtyZ/Fast Intentions 72 Row Oil Cooler\|SZ 6 Puck Clutch & Flywheel\|3GsCustoms\|Z1\|Wavetrac\|Hotchkis\|Whiteline \|Blitz\|Fortune Auto 500\|Fujimura\|SPL\|H&R\|TK\|TWM\|RPM Rollbar\|Sparco\|Next Level Performance\|TrackSpec\|AeroFlow Dynamics\|Pioneer\|

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10-26-2017, 02:44 PM	#300 (permalink)
alcheng A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Toronto Posts: 28,893 Drives: 2011 ZR PW w/Clutch Rep Power: 418352	yes, hopefully less drama and more racing.