Affected by Government Shutdown?

andre12031948 · 09-30-2013, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z

US Declaration of Independence. Seems to me that some of the grievances listed apply today.

IBTL

I wish we had those ^^^^ type of leaders running our country today.....

We have to settle with what we got

andre12031948 · 09-30-2013, 02:51 PM

I guess the difference is from a nation builders to the next election committee builders

RICAN · 09-30-2013, 03:06 PM

Thanks for all the support you guys have here for us(military) I'm deployed right know and is just like chuck33079 said no matter if they give us back pay eventually ..we will be in this $!@( hole for free and more bills pilling up will be here risking our lives over here with no pay!!...this sucks...

Cmike2780 · 09-30-2013, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andre12031948

As far as Obama care, it will be another huge govt. bureaucracy paid by the WORKING TAX PAYERS that will support people with families or not, that have NOT worked or paid taxes a single time in their lives. Let's take the guy that spends his days selling drugs in the park. He has all the time in the world & will be able to go to YOUR doctor AHEAD of you. Also the Government TODAY already pays for FREE cab service to people that don't earn/report making a living/paying taxes.

A bit lot of inaccuracies in there. Obamacare is funded by taxes, no one is arguing that. Those that can benefit from the program are working tax payers, it's not a form of welfare that Faux News has made it out to be. This won't effect the guy selling drugs on the street. The act is to provide health insurance to those who work legally, not welfare....that's an entirely separate issue. I don't know where you got your information, but the ER doesn't triage based on insurance. I also don't understand what cab rides have to do with anything, true or not. Furthermore, the budgeted amount that was suppose to fund educating the public on how Obamacare would work was defunded by GOP leaders to undermine the implementation. They want to see it fail before it ever gets off the ground. That's why we're on the verge of a likely government shut down. While some idiot is reading Dr.Seuss in the middle of Congress, government employees that keep this country running are left waiting and wondering if they have work the next few weeks. There needs to be a debate on what can and can't work. What they shouldn't do is use government employees and services hostage because they're not getting what they want. It's the equivalent of some kid threatening to hold their breath if they don't get their way. Obama is basically telling them to go ahead and do it until they turn blue in the face.

I have plenty of gripes with those that manipulate the health care system. I have doctors and nurses in my family that experience it first hand. They stay in hospitals and see it as a hotel. They know that hospital can't discharge them if they're having chest pains for example. My gf is a nurse and every time she comes home, she tells a story of yet another guy who's verbally and sometime physically abusive to the nurses and staff....it's usually the guy/girl without a job or medical insurance...gun shot victims, homeless...etc. They come in to the doctor's office with Medicaid while dressed with expensive clothing, jewelry, smartphones, cars etc...Also, not saying it's a racial issue, but they're often African Americans or Hispanic from low income neighborhoods. I'm not saying they're the norm or the exception...I'm just saying it exist and that's what I've personally observed. The sooner we tackle the problem of insuring all those that work and pay taxes, the sooner we can weed out those that go into the ER, stay in the hospital for weeks and don't pay a dime. They're the reason why premiums are so high and why a 3 day hospital stay can easily be billed at around $18k. I think people need to at least read what Obamacare enacts and decide for themselves instead of listening to what the news pundits are proclaiming.

SouthArk370Z · 09-30-2013, 03:11 PM

Just look at History. All previous "democracies" (republics, &c) went through a period of expansion and prosperity (ppl had to fight to get ahead but were able to fully enjoy the fruits of their labor) and then decided that the gov't should/could make Life safe and happy for everyone. Downhill from there.

Whether one likes it or not, Life is not safe nor is it easy and no society/gov't can make it different (as long as we have more ppl than we have resources). Darwin wins in the long run.

andre12031948 · 09-30-2013, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmike2780

A bit lot of inaccuracies in there. Obamacare is funded by taxes, no one is arguing that. Those that can benefit from the program are working tax payers, it's not a form of welfare that Faux News has made it out to be. This won't effect the guy selling drugs on the street. The act is to provide health insurance to those who work legally, not welfare....that's an entirely separate issue. I don't know where you got your information, but the ER doesn't triage based on insurance. I also don't understand what cab rides have to do with anything, true or not. Furthermore, the budgeted amount that was suppose to fund educating the public on how Obamacare would work was defunded by GOP leaders to undermine the implementation. They want to see it fail before it ever gets off the ground. That's why we're on the verge of a likely government shut down. While some idiot is reading Dr.Seuss in the middle of Congress, government employees that keep this country running are left waiting and wondering if they have work the next few weeks. There needs to be a debate on what can and can't work. What they shouldn't do is use government employees and services hostage because they're not getting what they want. It's the equivalent of some kid threatening to hold their breath if they don't get their way. Obama is basically telling them to go ahead and do it until they turn blue in the face.

I have plenty of gripes with those that manipulate the health care system. I have doctors and nurses in my family that experience it first hand. They stay in hospitals and see it as a hotel. They know that hospital can't discharge them if they're having chest pains for example. My gf is a nurse and every time she comes home, she tells a story of yet another guy who's verbally and sometime physically abusive to the nurses and staff....it's usually the guy/girl without a job or medical insurance...gun shot victims, homeless...etc. They come in to the doctor's office with Medicaid while dressed with expensive clothing, jewelry, smartphones, cars etc...Also, not saying it's a racial issue, but they're often African Americans or Hispanic from low income neighborhoods. I'm not saying they're the norm or the exception...I'm just saying it exist and that's what I've personally observed. The sooner we tackle the problem of insuring all those that work and pay taxes, the sooner we can weed out those that go into the ER, stay in the hospital for weeks and don't pay a dime. They're the reason why premiums are so high and why a 3 day hospital stay can easily be billed at around $18k. I think people need to at least read what Obamacare enacts and decide for themselves instead of listening to what the news pundits are proclaiming.

I'm in the middle of something & only skimmed through your post.

Where does it say the health care is for tax payers? I thought it was for people that don't now have health insurance. Job, paying taxes, or welfare is not part of the plan..... I think??? Anyway will read the rest when I get the chance.

Oh yes, people on welfare do get free car service to go to their medical doctor. Just like a free phone. Well it's not free, we pay for it. It's free for some people. I'll be back if you need details... That's NOT how to build a strong & healthy & fair country!!!

gurneyeagle · 09-30-2013, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z

Just look at History. All previous "democracies" (republics, &c) went through a period of expansion and prosperity (ppl had to fight to get ahead but were able to fully enjoy the fruits of their labor) and then decided that the gov't should/could make Life safe and happy for everyone. Downhill from there.

Whether one likes it or not, Life is not safe nor is it easy and no society/gov't can make it different (as long as we have more ppl than we have resources). Darwin wins in the long run.

Sad but very true.

Even sadder that I am glad to be 55 and not 25. I may just make it before the whole thing collapses.

The Great Society will eventually consume this country. The process started in 1964 and has continued ever since while the plight of those who were to benefit from it fall farther behind.

Entitlements only work if those "entitled" are out numbered by those who provide the resources for the entitlements.

Chuck33079 · 09-30-2013, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andre12031948

I'm in the middle of something & only skimmed through your post.

Where does it say the health care is for tax payers? I thought it was for people that don't now have health insurance. Job, paying taxes, or welfare is not part of the plan..... I think??? Anyway will read the rest when I get the chance.

People on government assistance are usually already on Medicaid. This isn't aimed at them.

Cmike2780 · 09-30-2013, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z

Just look at History. All previous "democracies" (republics, &c) went through a period of expansion and prosperity (ppl had to fight to get ahead but were able to fully enjoy the fruits of their labor) and then decided that the gov't should/could make Life safe and happy for everyone. Downhill from there.

Whether one likes it or not, Life is not safe nor is it easy and no society/gov't can make it different (as long as we have more ppl than we have resources). Darwin wins in the long run.

True, but Darwin's theory was about survival through adaptation, evolution and natural selection. This is true for every species and doesn't mean we can't coexist.

andre12031948 · 09-30-2013, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

People on government assistance are usually already on Medicaid. This isn't aimed at them.

WOW^^^^ so they don't even have to go through this mess like we do. I'm not an expert on welfare, but it (welfare) sounds better everyday.

andre12031948 · 09-30-2013, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gurneyeagle

Sad but very true.

Even sadder that I am glad to be 55 and not 25. I may just make it before the whole thing collapses.

The Great Society will eventually consume this country. The process started in 1964 and has continued ever since while the plight of those who were to benefit from it fall farther behind.

Entitlements only work if those "entitled" are out numbered by those who provide the resources for the entitlements.

Once we have less people working than not working, well

Chuck33079 · 09-30-2013, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andre12031948

WOW^^^^ so they don't even have to go through this mess like we do. I'm not an expert on welfare, but it (welfare) sounds better everyday.

No. The ACA for the most part is aimed at lower to middle incomes that have foregone insurance due to cost. The bottom 10% are already covered by existing programs.

mults · 09-30-2013, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Sent home without pay. The government employees take it right in the *** when our legislators play chicken with the government.

Yeah, too bad since most legislators will still getting paid. Maybe if they had to follow the same rules, this thing would have been put to bed by now.

Chuck33079 · 09-30-2013, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mults

Yeah, too bad since most legislators will still getting paid. Maybe if they had to follow the same rules, this thing would have been put to bed by now.

You know it would have been. That's the really depressing part.

Cmike2780 · 09-30-2013, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andre12031948

Oh yes, people on welfare do get free car service to go to their medical doctor. Just like a free phone. Well it's not free, we pay for it. It's free for some people. I'll be back if you need details... That's NOT how to build a strong & healthy & fair country!!!

First off, that free "Obama phone" program is was highly misleading propaganda spurred by rumors. It was program called Lifeline Assistance that began in 1996 to provide land lines to those who couldn't afford it. It was enacted under Clinton, continued under Bush and expanded to include cell phones instead of land lines. That switch coincidently started under Obama and the rumor spread. Yes, technically anyone on welfare can apply, but again, that's another issue. An applicant is generally eligible if they are at or below 135-150% of the Federal Poverty Guidelines or if they already participate in one of many public assistance programs such as Medicaid, food stamps, energy assistance, public housing....etc. As far as tax payers paying for it...it's yes and no. The money actually comes from a small fee added to most people’s monthly phone bills, called the Universal Service Fund fee.

As far as "free" cab rides, that's really skimming the bottom for excuses. Maybe it would help if you pictured a white 90 year old woman living alone, who worked all her life, payed her taxes, eventually used up all her money and just needs a ride to her doctor. Trust me, I wish we knew who rightfully deserves the aid and who's gaming the system. It's just not a valid argument for this debate.

09-30-2013, 03:11 PM	#65 (permalink)
SouthArk370Z Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 8,435 Drives: 2014 Challenger Rep Power: 324197	Just look at History. All previous "democracies" (republics, &c) went through a period of expansion and prosperity (ppl had to fight to get ahead but were able to fully enjoy the fruits of their labor) and then decided that the gov't should/could make Life safe and happy for everyone. Downhill from there. Whether one likes it or not, Life is not safe nor is it easy and no society/gov't can make it different (as long as we have more ppl than we have resources). Darwin wins in the long run. __________________ Steering Lock Links - Search The370Z Bookmarklet - FSM @ NICOclub Mankind has progressed past the need for war but we haven't evolved that far. - NachoMahma

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09-30-2013, 02:51 PM	#62 (permalink)
andre12031948 Banned Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: monticello new york 127 Posts: 1,095 Drives: 08 350z black 6m/t Rep Power: 0	I guess the difference is from a nation builders to the next election committee builders

09-30-2013, 03:06 PM	#63 (permalink)
RICAN Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: fort hood, tx Posts: 345 Drives: 2012 370z m6 Rep Power: 12	Thanks for all the support you guys have here for us(military) I'm deployed right know and is just like chuck33079 said no matter if they give us back pay eventually ..we will be in this $!@( hole for free and more bills pilling up will be here risking our lives over here with no pay!!...this sucks...