Good-Bye Jeep Liberty! WELCOME BACK JEEP CHEROKEE!

Red__Zed · 04-01-2013, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red6spd

So the FJ is a Subaru with great ground clearance and a Low range for the really nasty stuff. Win Win in my eyes. It just gets horrible gas mileage.

not really. The FJ has Torsen's F/R and L/R.

You should probably do your own research before buying. If you have a 55 mile commute I'd take a careful look at what you need and what conditions you expect to encounter.

gsxr750 · 04-01-2013, 03:18 PM

For serious off roading the rear wench is essential, there are often times you can't go forwards anymore and the front mounted wench is useless, if you need to be pulled out from the rear and turn around and go back the way you came.

Here is a link on front and rear wench discussion

Front vs Rear mounting winch - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

My point is that if all you want is a vehicle that is capable of handling a up to 5-10 inches of light snow or just a drive up ice or snow covered drive way , then any AWD car or SUV should cover that.

But when your talking driving off road its a completely different beast, I grew up in western new York, where you have a lot of snow and a lot of muddy trails early in the season and have talked and experienced enough tough trails on my own, where even the winch wouldn't get you out and you had to pay a farmer with a tractor or even a contractor with a bulldozer to pull the 4 x 4 out.

What I have learned and many other friends is that if you can't get to a simple location by a normal car, then its time to get out the snowshoes, horse, atv or snowmobile. Simply leave the car at the main road and use another source of transport.

Red__Zed · 04-01-2013, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr750

For serious off roading the rear wench is essential, there are often times you can't go forwards anymore and the front mounted wench is useless, if you need to be pulled out from the rear and turn around and go back the way you came.

Here is a link on front and rear wench discussion

Front vs Rear mounting winch - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

My point is that if all you want is a vehicle that is capable of handling a up to 5-10 inches of light snow or just a drive up ice or snow covered drive way , then any AWD car or SUV should cover that.

But when your talking driving off road its a completely different beast, I grew up in western new York, where you have a lot of snow and a lot of muddy trails early in the season and have talked and experienced enough tough trails on my own, where even the winch wouldn't get you out and you had to pay a farmer with a tractor or even a contractor with a bulldozer to pull the 4 x 4 out.

What I have learned and many other friends is that if you can't get to a simple location by a normal car, then its time to get out the snowshoes, horse, atv or snowmobile. Simply leave the car at the main road and use another source of transport.

A rear winch is certainly nice to have, but far from a must-have. If you're stuck enough to need a winch from the back, you deserve to waste a few minutes moving a front winch to the rear mount.

Tackling any serious offroading alone is a terrible decision anyways. You should always have someone out there with you. I'd never tackle any of the real trails without some backup.

Got any pics of your wheeling?

UNKNOWN_370 · 04-02-2013, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

A rear winch is certainly nice to have, but far from a must-have. If you're stuck enough to need a winch from the back, you deserve to waste a few minutes moving a front winch to the rear mount.

Tackling any serious offroading alone is a terrible decision anyways. You should always have someone out there with you. I'd never tackle any of the real trails without some backup.

Got any pics of your wheeling?

Wish I could change the thread title. It's slightly off topic, but this is the actual thread I should have started...

This turned out to be an awesome thread. Learning a lot here. I may slowly and eventually evolve to this level of off-roading???

red6spd · 04-02-2013, 12:22 PM

I don't care what the setup is, AWD is better the RWD in the rain snow etc. The FJ is not going to be my primary commuter I still have a Versa for that but my new job requires me to be at work no matter what the weather conditions are so that's why I want a truck, my GF will use the truck most of the time until I need it. Oh and you should have stop by LI this past winter and seen how well they cleaned the roads and your comments about LI not getting a lot of snow and having cleared roads would not be happening.

gsxr750 · 04-02-2013, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

Wish I could change the thread title. It's slightly off topic, but this is the actual thread I should have started...

This turned out to be an awesome thread. Learning a lot here. I may slowly and eventually evolve to this level of off-roading???

Here is a link to some good examples of being stuck with the 4x4 it illustrates why you really need a beater for it,

The best way to get your truck unstuck out of mud? - Page 2 - Tacoma World Forums

Did most of my off roading during the late 70's and early 80's , we were stuck with only Kodak 110's and 35mm cameras, and on $120-$150 pay check back then you didn't waste much money on pictures, 10 pics with film and developing ran easily $20 back then. Pics were for holidays and special parties and get togethers, not like it is today.

Red__Zed · 04-02-2013, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr750

Here is a link to some good examples of being stuck with the 4x4 it illustrates why you really need a beater for it,

The best way to get your truck unstuck out of mud? - Page 2 - Tacoma World Forums

Did most of my off roading during the late 70's and early 80's , we were stuck with only Kodak 110's and 35mm cameras, and on $120-$150 pay check back then you didn't waste much money on pictures, 10 pics with film and developing ran easily $20 back then. Pics were for holidays and special parties and get togethers, not like it is today.

What about the rear winch being "mandatory?"

gsxr750 · 04-02-2013, 03:09 PM

Look at the pics of the long bed ford 4x4 stuck in the mud , it isn't going forward and read the post in the link, they will even tell you that even a winch wouldn't get the 4x4 out when its held in place by the mud suction and you have to put constant tension on the cable and let it sit for hrs. waiting for it to break it self loose.

I gave up on the off roading after a idiot friend of mine destroyed his newly restored 79 blaser K5 after driving it in a land fill and he got it barried in the mud and destroyed the engine and the tranny, due to a carpet getting wrapped around the drive shaft. He basically gave the truck away to the owner of the land fill, as he faced big legal problems with getting it out.

The idiot just lost a $10k restored custom truck, my last 4x4 was a Chevy K20 short wheel base , with a front winch , brush guards, skid plates and good mud/snow tires, 4 inch lift.

After burying my K20 once up to the axles and have to dig a trench for a oak log to bury and attach the wench cable to and 6hrs of back breaking work in 40 degree weather, I said F this crap. Stick with the ATV, dirt bike or snowmobile. If I had a rear winch I could have attached it to a tree behind me.

Also when your buried in mud up to both bumpers and your boots are getting sucked off your feet with every step, do you really think your going want to dig out the front wench and transfer it to the buried rear bumper to attach it. A moveable wench would work fine in a dry or desert situation , but not in the mud and snow or really rocky terrain .

The other issue was having to pay $13,500 financed at 13% interest for 5 yrs. for vehicles back then and you destroying it in the mud or rocks.

If your determined to go off roading in a 4x4 your really better off with a used 4x4 ranger, s10 or jeep wrangler etc. and setting it up as an off road beater.

Red__Zed · 04-02-2013, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr750

Look at the pics of the long bed ford 4x4 stuck in the mud , it isn't going forward and read the post in the link, they will even tell you that even a winch wouldn't get the 4x4 out when its held in place by the mud suction and you have to put constant tension on the cable and let it sit for hrs. waiting for it to break it self loose.

so because a winch won't help, I should have two?

You need other vehicles, not more winches attached to your own.

Quote:

I gave up on the off roading after a idiot friend of mine destroyed his newly restored 79 blaser K5 after driving it in a land fill and he got it barried in the mud and destroyed the engine and the tranny, due to a carpet getting wrapped around the drive shaft. He basically gave the truck away to the owner of the land fill, as he faced big legal problems with getting it out.

The idiot just lost a $10k restored custom truck, my last 4x4 was a Chevy K20 short wheel base , with a front winch , brush guards, skid plates and good mud/snow tires, 4 inch lift.

After burying my K20 once up to the axles and have to dig a trench for a oak log to bury and attach the wench cable to and 6hrs of back breaking work in 40 degree weather, I said F this crap. Stick with the ATV, dirt bike or snowmobile. If I had a rear winch I could have attached it to a tree behind me.

Also when your buried in mud up to both bumpers and your boots are getting sucked off your feet with every step, do you really think your going want to dig out the front wench and transfer it to the buried rear bumper to attach it. A moveable wench would work fine in a dry or desert situation , but not in the mud and snow or really rocky terrain .

The other issue was having to pay $13,500 financed at 13% interest for 5 yrs. for vehicles back then and you destroying it in the mud or rocks.

If your determined to go off roading in a 4x4 your really better off with a used 4x4 ranger, s10 or jeep wrangler etc. and setting it up as an off road beater.

No one is disputing that old and cheap is a better way to go. If you'd read the thread you would probably have seen that mentioned by me a couple of times.

A secondary winch, however, sits way down on the list of "wants." Most of the time when you're stuck in deep mud, you can't operate a winch attached to your vehicle anyways, so you're working the uphill one instead.

UNKNOWN_370 · 04-02-2013, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

so because a winch won't help, I should have two?

You need other vehicles, not more winches attached to your own.

No one is disputing that old and cheap is a better way to go. If you'd read the thread you would probably have seen that mentioned by me a couple of times.

A secondary winch, however, sits way down on the list of "wants." Most of the time when you're stuck in deep mud, you can't operate a winch attached to your vehicle anyways, so you're working the uphill one instead.

Yeah.the first thing you told me is any serious off-roading I do, I'm better off with an older body-on chassis than these new Jeeps with unibodies.

04-01-2013, 03:18 PM	#92 (permalink)
gsxr750 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: west Posts: 443 Drives: 2012 370z man. sport Rep Power: 13	For serious off roading the rear wench is essential, there are often times you can't go forwards anymore and the front mounted wench is useless, if you need to be pulled out from the rear and turn around and go back the way you came. Here is a link on front and rear wench discussion Front vs Rear mounting winch - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum My point is that if all you want is a vehicle that is capable of handling a up to 5-10 inches of light snow or just a drive up ice or snow covered drive way , then any AWD car or SUV should cover that. But when your talking driving off road its a completely different beast, I grew up in western new York, where you have a lot of snow and a lot of muddy trails early in the season and have talked and experienced enough tough trails on my own, where even the winch wouldn't get you out and you had to pay a farmer with a tractor or even a contractor with a bulldozer to pull the 4 x 4 out. What I have learned and many other friends is that if you can't get to a simple location by a normal car, then its time to get out the snowshoes, horse, atv or snowmobile. Simply leave the car at the main road and use another source of transport. Last edited by gsxr750; 04-01-2013 at 03:22 PM.

04-02-2013, 12:22 PM	#95 (permalink)
red6spd A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 3,277 Drives: 2010 Z Coupe M6 SPT Rep Power: 21	I don't care what the setup is, AWD is better the RWD in the rain snow etc. The FJ is not going to be my primary commuter I still have a Versa for that but my new job requires me to be at work no matter what the weather conditions are so that's why I want a truck, my GF will use the truck most of the time until I need it. Oh and you should have stop by LI this past winter and seen how well they cleaned the roads and your comments about LI not getting a lot of snow and having cleared roads would not be happening. __________________ 2010 Base+Sport 6spd: Stillen G3, FI Non-Resonated CBE, FI Non-Resonated Test Pipes, UpRev Tuned, Custom 24R Oil Cooler, JDM Rear Fog-OEM Harness. ???Whp ???WTQ (Will find out come spring time)

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04-02-2013, 03:09 PM	#98 (permalink)
gsxr750 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: west Posts: 443 Drives: 2012 370z man. sport Rep Power: 13	Look at the pics of the long bed ford 4x4 stuck in the mud , it isn't going forward and read the post in the link, they will even tell you that even a winch wouldn't get the 4x4 out when its held in place by the mud suction and you have to put constant tension on the cable and let it sit for hrs. waiting for it to break it self loose. I gave up on the off roading after a idiot friend of mine destroyed his newly restored 79 blaser K5 after driving it in a land fill and he got it barried in the mud and destroyed the engine and the tranny, due to a carpet getting wrapped around the drive shaft. He basically gave the truck away to the owner of the land fill, as he faced big legal problems with getting it out. The idiot just lost a $10k restored custom truck, my last 4x4 was a Chevy K20 short wheel base , with a front winch , brush guards, skid plates and good mud/snow tires, 4 inch lift. After burying my K20 once up to the axles and have to dig a trench for a oak log to bury and attach the wench cable to and 6hrs of back breaking work in 40 degree weather, I said F this crap. Stick with the ATV, dirt bike or snowmobile. If I had a rear winch I could have attached it to a tree behind me. Also when your buried in mud up to both bumpers and your boots are getting sucked off your feet with every step, do you really think your going want to dig out the front wench and transfer it to the buried rear bumper to attach it. A moveable wench would work fine in a dry or desert situation , but not in the mud and snow or really rocky terrain . The other issue was having to pay $13,500 financed at 13% interest for 5 yrs. for vehicles back then and you destroying it in the mud or rocks. If your determined to go off roading in a 4x4 your really better off with a used 4x4 ranger, s10 or jeep wrangler etc. and setting it up as an off road beater.