FWD BRZ Fighter? Thoughts for Nissan Lovers!
 

Ok guys... This is the comment that has sparked a lot of negative thinking when it comes to Nissan's future cars. Understandably the thought of three different Z's... One econo, front wheel drive version, BRZ fighter. One RWD turbo 4 RWD which would be the standard car. And supposedly, possibly a limited edition V6 are some of the crazy rumors that have sparked.
While in deep thought about this. I realize, that the Altima coupe hasn't been spoken for... Will it be cancelled? Or is the so called BRZ fighting FWD Z really an Altima coupe, that we have totally Not considered in our talks???

Nissan info has been lost in translation with little defining guidance from our R&D/corporate guys. The only thing we really know is the next Z will be smaller, lighter and there will be a RWD version.

Now, I decided to dissect the rumors and pretend that the BRZ fighter won't be a Z. It will be a front wheel drive car. And possibly be an Altima or a FWD Silvia something or other. Who knows???

FWD, here in our country is the call-sign for "Fake Sports Car!" Why would Nissan do this??? Then while playing GT-5 I was racing my Renault Megane RS. In simulation this is one hot ride. Handles sick for a FWD... Given the marriage between Renault-Nissan...This prompted me to go on You tube and see exactly what this car does through some kind of auto review...

I was shocked to see what I found. This car, may not do donuts or it may NOT be easy to stick the back out. But if this car will weigh in the same range as a BRZ, with this engine in the guise of an Altima/Silvia? This may be the car to end GTi/Mazda3 and even newcomer Focus ST worship. If the Altima coupe came as the Renault Megane? I think, the BRZ would really have a FWD fighter from Nissan. LOOK.

Fifth Gear Web TV - Megane Renaultsport 250 Cup - YouTube

Fifth Gear Renault Sport Megane 265 Trophy VS Nissan 370Z - YouTube

evo Driven: Renault Megane RS 265 Trophy review - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=W7gLhmqq3_4



Being that Nissan and Renault are married... I think having this car with Nissan badges or at least use of its motor/chassis/tranny would benefit us greatly here, to increase Nissan performance. Not only for us to destroy ever other FWD car out there. But to put serious pressure on RWD to perform this well.
Nissan, if this will be one of the tricks up your sleeve? I will be impressed!:tup:

But this would mean, the RWD 370z needs to be even greater. Lets destroy the comp.

Adding another vid of Renault Megane (Nissan sister) vs Ford Focus RS.

Superchips Renaultsport Megane vs Ford Focus RS - Auto Express - YouTube

Opel vs Megane vs Focus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=PErKLbB4NW4

Coming back to this thread. It seems like Nissan/infiniti divorcing platforms was some type of lie they led us to believe. Reason being. Infiniti is coming out with a performance compact FWD coupe. It seems that will be a Renault influenced car an it seems like my thoughts have more validity than I thought.

Infiniti Compact Luxury Car Coming in 2016 | AutoGuide.com News

Which brings us back to an FWD version of the Z/maybe altima coupe? For a supposed divorce in platforms rumors still tend to run parallel??? I think in 2015/16, we will be getting a pair of Megane type vehicles through Nissan/Infiniti guys.

I drove a Megan in England. Pretty nice. Comparable to a GTI.

Yeah, I'd like to get my hands on one for a test drive.

Nissan here is an idea....Take the GTR shrink it down and throw it into the Z. It's a proven car. Why not? That would kill every other ride on the road with an AWD Z, launch control, twin turbo..etc..etc...

so then why would they need the gt-r anymore?

So why do they need the Mustang GT 500. Why not dump it for the mustang v6....same thing here. Different version for different price ranges and different styles.

At minimum, the price of the Z would triple.

Kewl, the reviews say that this thing makes GTi's feel boring and the GTi can't corner anywhere near a megane though. If this is true? I'm pretty excited.:tup:

Take the 3.8L design, factory line it instead of hand build it. Throw on a pair of cheap K03 turbos, reduce the HP to something like 400. This is how to save the Z at just a small price bump.

We can get 400hp out of a 3.0 Turbo and save 50 lbs doing it. 400hp is not much to put it in such a big motor. The 3.8 in a Z for 400hp is overkill. We're not hyundai.

Yeah, no kidding.

Oh, you want a pig of an engine with a hog of a driveline in the body of a ballerina? Sure, that won't cost much...

Seriously, there is no way Nissan is pumping that tech. into a 33-3400# car without seriously upping cost. Only American companies seem to know how to make a sub 3400# 600+hp vehicle that can handle. Everyone else is busy ******* around with AWD and heavy V6's and such. Of them, only Porsche is succeeding in the weight thing, and a GT2-RS will set you back 1/4mil for the privilege of competing with a corvette on the track, lmao

My 370Z is probably making around 350hp with CBE/smooth bellows. Why the HELL! would you want to add turbos for 50bhp!?

I agree with UNK. That's stupid, and that motor is very expensive, and we already have something just as "good" as the outlined solution if you don't mind modding a bit. Or Nissan could throw some headers on it and a re-tune and re-do some VVT timing and all and be right at about 380bhp I would bet.

400 out of a 3.8 of a general assembly line with turbos lets you dumb down the built, parts cost, complexity and lets you build a motor far enough away from it's fail point to make it reliable enough for mass production a car. Pushing more out of a 3.0 liter will make it less reliable. The 3.8 is block already developed and you won't need things like the spray in sleeves and full forged components that cost more. The GT-R's motor's cost comes from expensive parts, required tighter tolerances and hand-building, things you can dumb down at lower power levels. Nissan saves costs on uitlizing a block design that's already been in use and tested beyond anything they will need.

I'll take a fast, well sorted, FWD over a slow, underwhelming RWD car any day.

That said, I'd like to see Nissan take the Megane transaxle and motor and stick it in the back to make a MR layout. That could lead to a "pure" sports car with the existing partsbin, and fill a niche left open by the demise of the MR2/MRS.

I agree with everything you said. I have my Z34, so if a FWD comes out that's going to destroy next gen RWD's in a certain price range? Why not. That's just something I wouldn't do without an RWD in my garage.

That said, IMHO the FRS isn't enough car not to consider FWD. Now a FWD car in my Z's world. I'd laugh at a FWD that matched my cars price & specs. But a 250hp/$25k FWD... Why not? An FWD with more than 300hp, is useless and unnecessary imho unless you like drag racing FWD.

MR Megane? AWESOME IDEA!!! :tup:

Yeah, but it weighs well over 600#. Total fail.

Don't agree with the highlighted statement. With today's technology and material usage in engines. We can pull 280 Naturally-aspirated horses out the engine reliably and add a reliable twin scroll unit adding 90 production hp to the 3.0. Making it a 370hp engine without any reliability issues. Today there are plenty of N/A performance motors pulling out 100hp-125hp per litre reliably, so 280 from a 3.0 before the turbos isn't even all that dramatic... Nissan was pulling 222 hp from 3.0 reliably in 1990. The extra 58 N/A hp with today's technology is nothing.
There are a lots of twin scroll BMW 135's running around with $2,500 "warranteed from factory stage one tunes" making 400-420hp reliably since BMW went from TT to TSST turbo's. The NA engine used by BMW is a weak 230 horses. So boost is playing a larger role than my idea.

A 3.8 engine wouldn't be nearly as fuel efficient and will make it hard for Nissan to reach Future cafe standard goals. Weight would be heavier in the 3.8TT. A new design 3.0TSST or TT might offer a lower center of gravity for better handling as well as keep weight lower than 3100lbs which I doubt would happen with a 3.8TT.
We would lose or be on par with future muscle cars in handling if we seriously don't consider weight reduction... I think the Z being on par with muscle in handling next generation would be an embarrassment to the nissan name. We have always been the best compromise between power and handling and we always super-exceed in handling considered how powerful our cars are... I don't think we should sacrifice that reputation for a few extra horses.

Generally speaking... The modernized, lighter version of the Z32 motor would still be a beast and a half.

Nissan knows with weight distribution of 57/43 they can't go much over 350 hp. I thinking writing is on the wall. Next z will be slightly smaller with 3.5 liter direct injected that is in new Q cars. No turbo, no BRZ fighter. They don't sell enough Z's to make it profitable to do anything to far from Infiniti sister platforms. Still seems like next Z is a couple years off into future, first need to see Q coupe and the Z will follow year later. I'm afraid next Z might be better styled but overall snoozer.

the Q60 is also getting a turbo 4 so????

Just switch from closed deck to open or semi-closed. The closed deck is just to handle the extreme HP of the GT-R. Certainly not needed at power levels discussed.

Anything FWD is not a BRZ fighter. /thread.

Nissan needs another S chassis or come back with a Z trim that has a smaller output powertrain similar to how they did it with the Z32 with the N/A or TT options. They already have an engine for this to happen: the V6 from the G25 Infiniti. Same HP but more torque than the boxer found in the twins.

With the above said, I wouldn't mind a Nissan version of the Megane slotted against the Focus ST and Mazdaspeed3, but it likely will not ever happen since Nissan has such a hard on for the Juke.

I agree with this but another RWD won't happen. The best thing that can happen is they make an FWD mini Gt-R type vehicle from the megane and build an AWD version ala juke with the capability of rivaling RWD BRZ.

Of course they wouldn;\'t be isntantly direct competitors. But it would be like the GT-R, 911 wars. The 911 is RWD and the GT-R is AWD. They technically aren't competitors. But they are both so good they just throw them on the same track.
If we can make this kind of buzz in the broke mans world. The nissan AWD coupe could make a smash on BRZ sales still, the way the Gt-R impacts 911 sales.

You really need at least 300 hp + in a small car to really make it seem fast and fun to drive and it really helps it to be a 2 seater.

All the low HP coupes, sedans FWD and RWD ones all fall into about the same category and are just simply boring to drive, even if they look cool on the outside after driving these cars for a few days they just becoming boring like a sentra or a corolla.

The forumla for a fun and exciting sports car is simple keep it under 3500 lbs and have 300 HP or more, power to weight ratio and handling is the most important thing in the car.

Any of the low priced entry level muscle cars would be a better choice than any low powered import.

I think that, with the potential return of the Honda S2000, Nissan has an opportunity to make a partnership to make a RWD car happen. Utilize the same approach Toyota and Subaru used.

Disagree about the GT-R and 911 market scenario. The 911 Turbo is the benchmark for the GT-R and it has been AWD since the GT-R has been around. I think the approach you brought up with a mini GT-R style vehicle could in theory be a competitor, but the cost of said vehicle would absolutely crush its chances of success. It will be far too close to the cost of a Z, which is why I see the NISMO Juke as a potential failure because I do not see how Nissan will price it for less than 30K.

I don't think Nissan is trying to slot a RWD under the Z. That's why they're exploring other drivetrains. At best there will be a low end motor and high end motor for the Z.
Not quite. The AWD platform is in the Juke, it's cheap and very advanced... The chassis of the juke is 2800 lbs in FWD 2900 in AWD. A sport coupe would be lighter than a coupe by 250lbs at least. As long as they stay away from CVT in the sport coupe, it could work.

Subjective... You're missing a ton of variables that make driving fun.

What makes it fun, its slow, not good on gas mileage, cheaply constructed.

It might be fun to drive on a auto cross course or tear up a local parking lot, but thats about it. I drove one about a yr ago and it did nothing for me.

A Mazda RX8 is a lot better car and more fun than the BRZ.

I even just test drove one again with my wife in shopping for a new car for her and she hated it and decided on a loaded 13 V6 honda accord.

I'll accept the highlighted.

But you're kinda going all over the place in your thoughts right now. I'm saying that there are more variables to a car being fun over hp and rwd.

Nissan should really design a new Z with the V8 engine from the Titan Truck line, they could easily design it to get over 400 hp reliably.

In the grand scheme of things, I don't consider the Juke AWD to be very advanced, so agree to disagree there. I find the Impreza WRX AWD system to be a notch above it, and they can both be obtained for the same price point.

I would bring up the Altima Coupe as the reason why the sport coupe idea from Nissan needs to try something different (CVT-FWD I4 is the only 2013 option). That car is likely going out of production as Nissan removed the V6 option and the manual tranny altogether and has been completely mum about a redesign to line up with the 5th gen Altima Sedan. What could be fun is even the AWD CVT drivetrain built into a new Altima Coupe, but the Altima platform isn't built for it, so the likelihood of that even happening is slim to none.

As it stands, Nissan doesn't have a MT-AWD platform in production for the American market (I'm not even sure they have that anywhere else either). They would have to build it. They have at least a couple more options for MT-RWD (and even MT-FWD) that would cost them less in R&D dollars. If it costs them a lot in R&D, they won't be able to produce a competitor on their own because the vehicle would be priced too high to compete even if they built it. This is the same reason why Subaru and Toyota had to go in on it together, and they even reused many parts (the transmission is from a Lexus IS).

The reason the BRZ works is because RWD is the desired platform for a fun-to-drive sports car, and the car is relatively inexpensive. AWD is indeed great, but it is more expensive to produce and maintain, so to make a budget minded vehicle like the BRZ and make it meet it head on, it has to be RWD or it's just another car in the mix. Fun to drive usually also includes rowing through gears, and going CVT only will not be the answer, either.

The ball is in Nissan's court though. I hope they can show a bit of the "nissan of old" spirit and make something really fun.

The RX8 also cost a lot more than the BRZ when it was produced.

Truthfully, a lot of us need to chill out on the BRZ. After all, most (if not all) of us have driven a 370Z for a long time, and going to a BRZ from a Z, well, it should feel cheap! I disagree about the cheap construction from my impressions of it when you are mindful of its pricepoint. I also don't understand your basis for its gas mileage. It does a lot better than a Z does, but it's not blowing the doors off a Prius for MPGs.

In theory, valid points. But we're going to have to see exactly what Nissan has up there sleeve. Rumors of a FWD BRZ fighter. Rumors of other vehicles being designed off the Juke platform. Rumors of multi-engined Z's. We can hash out theories all day. At the end of the day. Nissan isn't saying much and we just don't know.

I agree with Subaru having the best AWD drive systems in affordable cars. TSUV types, I'm going to give it to Jeep. But Nissan makes a great performing AWD. In the G series, you can actually throw the back out. Something you can't do from let's say, Audi or BMW. I wouldn't call Nissan AWD bad. I would still call them advanced. Juke has a lower end version of that but it actually works beautifully imho. Had drive time behind the juke and applaud it's AWD system in general. Couple it with our 7AT and we may have something?

Slightly off topic but on topic

BRZ gets beat by Civic HFP??? :ugh2:

Tooo many concessions are being made for this "Farveghnugen" BRZ. The greatest sports car in history got beat by a FWD civic. :barf:

2013 Subaru BRZ vs. 2012 Honda Civic Si HFP - YouTube

So what does it beat on the track?

Kia Rio?
Hyundai accent?

Does it tie with elantra coupes?

Will it get defeated by the veloster turbo?

:facepalm:

Did you watch the video?

"The truth is, the Civic has way stickier tires, and if all things were equal the BRZ would be 2 or 3 seconds faster."

And before you say "but they are the tires it comes with!" -- well, not quite. The thing about the HFP package is that it comes with the wheels, the tire choice is entirely up to you and costs extra. Likewise, it isn't a cheap "package" either.

http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-si-coupe/hfp.aspx

Read the fine print:

Replacement tires required. Yokohama AVID W4S Ultra High Performance All-Season tires (215/40R18) are recommended but not included in the HFP package.

Also -- on Subaru's AWD system. It's actually a very basic system, way less advanced than most of 'em out there. But that's also why it is so good -- simplicity is good sometimes.

yes, because if there's one thing the Z needs, it's more weight over the front wheels.

That result is similar to the Boss LS absolutely destroying the M3. Tire choice is very misleading.

The reviews of this thing being fast in the corners is with stock tires. I understand what you're saying but. If this car was so great with stock tires. Supposedly you can drive this car into corners while pushing the limit with ease, on stock tires... It should be able to beat a civicWITH MASSIVE UNDERSTEER on a track even with better tires... The civic still lacks the balance and low COG perfect for corner cutting.

This car gets too much hype. Period.

I'd rather get a car with a strong engine and good handling and build up my suspension, than have a slow azz car with a average suspension, that is so light it gives the illusion of excellent handling.

Subie's system isnt advanced? Kool... It still the best system in a $25,000 car.