We could be objective and use sales numbers... but then the fanboys would argue about whether the sales and production numbers weighted against investment would constitute "accomplishment." The point is no longer moot when you claim objective numbers are subjective. So whats the point?

http://www.clipartof.com/images/emot...ng_smileys.gif

:rolleyes:

For the trollololols?

You entirely misread what I had to say. Try again:

Perhaps I should've added "for me" at the end to emphasize I was speaking for myself.

As has been repeated many times in this thread -- yes, the Altima is a good car. It is impressive. But it is not a car I would buy as it is not a segment I am interested in.

But -- even past that -- I don't see how it is innovative. That 38mpg number is nice, but is it really outside of the ballpark of what other manufacturers are giving on their brand new sedans? The Camry is 25/35, the Fusion 22/34 (with 47/47 possible in the hybrid), the Accord is 27/37, and the Optima is 25/35. This makes the Altima a class leader, but if we're realistic all of these numbers will be within +/-1 of each other in the real world. Is this innovation?

The argument that "the Z wasn't made to compete with X" is ********. Who cares? When I drove the Z I wasn't comparing it to a Porsche. I can't afford a Porsche. I was comparing it to the Camaro, Mustang, Evo, STi, 135i, 335i, Genesis Coupe, etc.

The only comparison in the real world (for me) is price. If it costs X, I'm comparing it to other cars that cost X.

Which brings me to...

You missed the point, sort of. My point wasn't that they are comparable performance wise, but that the GT-R's innovations 5 years ago aren't enough to sustain the entire company. Some people in this thread just shout "GT-R!" whenever Nissan is challenged. Yes, yes, the GT-R is awesome. It is my favorite car. I want one. I want five. But who cares? The GT-R isn't what makes Nissan who they are.

Also, yes, Ford does have its bad apples... but let's be realistic -- most are holdovers from their darker days. Likewise, the Boss was beaten -- but it was beaten by a car that was released and developed a year after it was. The 5.0 GT also stomped on the Camaro -- but it also had quite some time to do so. I mean, duh. That's how the pony wars between Chevy and Ford work.

This is purely my opinion... but you're insane. If money was no object and I wanted a car to cruise in, I'd buy a Challenger in a heartbeat. That car is gorgeous.

The new Corvette is gorgeous. The Camaro was an aesthetic darling for a while. The new Chevy line is handsome (the Impala looks pretty good, imo -- as is the Cruze).

The CTS-V sedan and wagon are incredible looking -- the CTS (and ATS) are two of my favorite modern cars purely because of their aesthetics.

There really is no winning in this discussion, though. I think a lot of people are reading my posts as if I'm some huge Ford fanboy. I've never even owned a Ford, nor has anyone in my immediate family. I just think Nissan could be doing a better job -- and I also think that a lot of people in this thread (and forum) have blinders on when it comes to Nissan.

Definitely, it's all down to opinion, as I don't really care for the older cars, which means I don't care for the retro look on the newer cars nor do I like their incorporation into the new 'Vette.

The Challenger and Charger are boats, for me (Charger has gotten smaller in recent years).

Either way, Ford is doing well putting more (and better) technology in their cars (as far as in-cabin toys and such).

I'm pissed that I paid almost $40k for a car and can't even get a USB port, yet other $27k vehicles have bluetooth, USB, heated seats (cloth), etc. :shakes head:

If the charger came with a stick, I'd work the corner for one. I loved driving the new srt8. a car that big yet drives smaller. plus that 6.4 is amazing. and i know it is truly superfluous but even the cupholders have heating and cooling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just saying ;)

Really? You never heard of IMSA NISSAN 300zx? You know Paul Newman? Steve Millen? Wins at Daytona and LeMans?

Nissan 300zx No.2 from WINDING ROAD Magazine - YouTube

Or playboy 350 Z in Grand Am? Here's some in car of 350z picking off clumsy fords in braking zones. Like stealing candy from a baby!

Tommy Constantine Playboy Racing Nissan 350Z Passing Mustang GTs - YouTube

Or Super GT 350 Z?

http://youtu.be/U1garmkxSrc


370 z not winning major titles?

24 hours of SPA, 24 hours of Dubai? Check all wins just from RJN cars.

http://www.rjnmotorsport.com/

And how about all 370z wins in Super TEC series in Japan?

Sorry but Nissan has been heavily involved in motorsports and only increasing focus.

forget motorsports! i'm buying a jet, can go much faster than any car
your car is faster than my car? well i have a jet in my backyard top that biotch

Shamu is correct. Nissan is the only company that has wins and has videos of its cars passing others.

Sorry forgot about the 300ZX, I believe that was a privateer team.

Mazda had more cars and wins than the Playboy car, you call that domination?

Winning GT4 is nice, but that is nowhere close to the big boys in GT2 or GT3. I guess in a year we will see if their new car can match the Audi or the Toyota. I would love to see them do well, that way we can get and get all the big manufactures back in the game. With Nissan and Toyota back, I would assume Honda is the next to go back in line.

pfft, thats nothing compared to the space shuttle i have parked out back, your jet can just eat my rocket exhaust :icon23: :rofl2:

ok you got me beat there :bowdown:

The point is that Ford makes Billions of dollars more than Nissan, and so they can do things Nissan only wishes they could. I don't care how you cook the numbers of production, margin, etc. End of the year profits are what they are.

That may be fast but what about aesthetics?

Whoever builds the first Peter Copter with a full ball chin body kit and facia wins!






Phone Tapatalk *nix ...

eh no need for much aesthetically, i just paint it like a giant dildo and call it a day :tup:

Well said IC. so the point isn't truly worth discussing. Its just a thread that's set up so that people can bash A. nissan and the Z or B. Ford and the stang.

/thread :tiphat:

You just contradicted yourself in one post...

the z is probably the most fun of the batch of cars you're bangin on about. (Mustang,Camaro,) Minus the Evo, that fun factor is crazy.


If all you care about is fun, the Z is gonna be on top. The stang is a track god but feels numb and is kinda boring when you factor in, seat position, steering feel, cornering and the overall sense of engaging to drive. Power is the major factor of being a winner. And if someone brings up that weak azz track pack again I'm gonna :barf: The Z is much more engaging. The Mustang is just winning on tracks. (Boss302 changes that but everyone svcks 5.0 c0ck for being something overall it's NOT). I'll give Ford props for the little computer accelerometer etc... Great track performance and an incredible powerful engine. But there are so many factors to the driving experience the Z can fill that Stang can't. And to deny this is fanboy...

Deep down inside what it really boils down to is that the mustang is the fastest on the block under $40k and some ego's are hurt they don't have the fastest car. But handling wise, quality and technology wise, the Mustang is still the inferior car. And remember, The Z compares in performance to a v6 and in price to a v8. They give you way more quality in structural design and the VQ 37 has tech advance firsts the 5.0 doesn't. The Z is the compromise car. There is NO Comparison. GEt OVER IT. NISSAN slated us an AFFORDABLE porsche fighter. Not a competitive mustang fighter. Can the mustang beat the cayman around the track? Most likely yes. AND??????????????????
You Make The Conscious Decision Of buying a 370Z to be an individual who appreciates UNIQUE performance atrributes or YOU BUY a mustang based on the muscle power wars and who has the biggest Car C0ck.(mustang, camaro or challenger) Thats's all there is and nothing more.

There are things to complain about the Z. But your post is contradictory to everything we're really discussing. a lot of what this post was about was the lack of tech innovation and OVERALL SPORTY entries from Nissan

Where is the Sentra SE-R?
What will happen to the altima coupe?
Why will the Z be a BRZ fighter instead of carrying the tradition of Cayman stopper?

Cars like the Focus St, upcoming Fiesta ST, the current mustang and the new focus show that they are injecting fun to their cars. Nissan, who was always the leader of injecting fun into cars (along with mazda) are slowing that down with current entries. At least it seems that way. That's the real Argument.

I agree, i wouldn't buy a Z right now if i was buying for strrictly performance. I'd buy a camaro !LE, because the suspension tuning on that car gives more feedback than our current Z:eekdance:. Really? A camaro? lol YES a Camaro. The track pack GT? Ancient history. It's outdated. The Boss 302 is the stang leader. Hmmm? Can you affrd it? Probably not? Which brings you back to 37k for a SS1LE or a Z. for $39k. I'll take the 1LE. If the Z was $35k from the 1Le, i'd choose the Z. BUT I'm looking at it from behind the wheel.

There's so many ways to look at a car purchase. Problem we have here is when we cross reasons for buying. Don't say you're all about fun and bring up tech issues in the cockpit. That's highly contradictory.

I think you misread the thread title.

http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/...psf7b46791.jpg

Like this....

http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/...ps55612cb5.jpg

One other thing. What cracks me up about the Extreme Fanboi BS in here is thst i can give props to the Focus St for being a 26k fun FWD that it is and everyone will agree. Give respect to the Juke and everyone starts hating. Dfollar for dollar, the juke is extremely high quality @ $23k. The juke is loaded with modern tech @ a low price. The turbo FWD juke gets to 60 in 7.3 seconds and does the quarter mile faster than the BRZ.
BRZ 6.0/15.9
Juke 7.3 15.5
The juke will not give a purist driving experience of the BRZ but the Juke is easier to mod and a HOOT to drive. While I would love to see a manual and shiftable auto instead of CVT in the AWD. What they have so far is awesome. My issue is I'd like to see more in the sentra, versa and altima coupe segments at least. But respect is being taken away from the juke and 90% are making comments about it that haven't driven it,aren't interested in driving it and want to make defining comments. I've driven both variants. FWD and AWD and both transmissions. The AWD offers more feedback and the FWD manual builds deeper on the sporty-truck like driving experience in a little CUV that the AWD version already provides. It's truly unique experience and a Juke on special is priced nice

wat

also wat

Where do I bring up anything like that? Innovation isn't limited to nav screens.

Let's try again:

In other words, if I walk into a Nissan showroom I see two cars -- good ones -- but the one I can afford (the 370) is behind the competition in the year 2013. That is because of ~reasons~ (that were already stated in this thread). It's outdated.

What I'm saying is this:

Nissan should've been building a S16 or something like it. It would be nice to see a competitive Juke or SE-R. As the 370 didn't sell well, it didn't get a refresh, so it is far behind the competition. This does not mean it is a bad car. It just means it is behind the competition.

If I walk into a Ford showroom, I see cars that I like. That are fun. That I can afford. This is all. Finally...

Alternatively, some people enjoy going fast in a straight line. Fun for some people might be feeling gobs of torque. Fun for others is going around corners. For me, fun isn't something I can pin down. All I know is that (for me) Nissan is lacking in the fun department. That's okay. They'll survive and they'll sell cars. As I said earlier, fun-oriented drivers like myself are a dying breed. They are likely making the right business choices.

But (as I said pages ago) I see their offerings as sub-par.

also you sort of answered your own question about the Juke. The Focus ST gets props because it went the distance (minus its dif, maybe). The Juke is close, but most would agree it is just short of being cool

Nut, try this, attached 8in all seasons to the back of your car. It will feel just like a Mustang, I promise.

More like an FRS/BRZ :icon17:

i go in nissan and i see cars i like. I go in Ford I see cars i like, I go into both and i also find cars i dont. The Z is technologically behind in USB ports and ancient looking nav, Stereos etc. You're talking about fun. The Z is behind in fun? How? Where? What? Come on man. Long stories for short points.

Juke is short of being kool? lol thats weak. The focus is awesome but went the disttance where??? What distance you're talking about. The juke didnt? Where? I've driven both!!! Have you? this is where the BS line blurrs bruh.

The juke is hot for what it is. The Focus is Hot for what it is. Give me 5 solid reasons that the juke isn't a good buy. Or not kool. CVT excluded cuz thats highly subjective. A 7.3 second turbo entry @ $21k is pretty kewl to me. Only other turbo @that price is the Veloster. I'll take em both at that price.

Technology. We're going to hve to wait and see but the Q50 nav, expect 90-1005 of those features to be in the next gen Z, maxima, murano.

http://www.infinitiusa.com/all-new-q50/technology/

Honestly, i understand the 5.0 is fast in a straight line, etc etc. But i really look at it like this, it comes from the factory basically drag ready (premium package). And its like 4 tenths of a second faster if driven right? I mean it already makes almost 100 more horsepower and definitely alot more torque. But one of the main things which gets it the 12.7 is its 3.73 gears. So honestly, i dont see this car as a dominating car for what its equipped with. Better gears and way more torque and horsepower and its 4 tenths of a second ahead of a barely track ready car that makes much less power and isnt meant for drag? Just my 2 cents.

Where the hell did you get 4 milliseconds from? :roflpuke2:

I wouldn't call the Z a track ready car.....not without an oil cooler. I have youtube blocked at work, so will someone else post the 5.0 vs M3 video by MT? Thanks :tiphat:

If I was walking into a dealership today with the same money I was when I bought the Z, I feel like I'd get more fun for my dollar from a Mustang than I would a Z.

I enjoyed the extra power. I enjoyed the sound. I enjoyed everything about the car but the seats, which were then fixed. Now, for practicality reasons I won't buy a Mustang, but if it was 3 years ago and this car was on the market? No contest.

I also feel like you have to push the Z past the limits of a street road to have (more) fun with it, where the Mustang doesn't necessarily need that.

Haven't driven a Focus ST, but I have driven an AWD Juke. It wasn't fun. I mean, it was okay, it wasn't bad for a DD -- but fun? Nah. CVTs don't feel fun at all (also, while yes, this is highly subjective... I haven't ever seen someone compliment a CVT). It also doesn't feel as fast as you say. The engine feels (and sounds) like it is constantly under stress. I felt like the car was sort of flimsy (understandable, for what it is).

Also, there's a dude near me with one that has a bunch of mods on it -- it isn't nearly as mod-friendly as you make it seem. It seems that the max you can get out of the engine with a (way) aggressive tune and full bolt ons is around 60/70 more hp than stock. That also includes a bigger FMIC that either a). compromise the safety of the car, or b). looks hideous.

There are always going to be faster cars. Why spend so much time worrying about it? You can upgrade all you want, but eventually your car will be dated one way or another. Just close the magazines and enjoy the drive.

:iagree:

Well ill tell you where i got it from. Here, the forums. Have you looked at the 1/4 mile times here? There have been completely stock Z's run a 12.9, so thats more like 2 tenths of a second. Stock tires and everything too. And i said "barely"track ready if at all. You clearly dont read your sentences all the way through. You can make this a youtube battle but the evidence has already been given. So idk what else to tell you.

I only care about faster cars when I decide to post on forums. :p

edit: and for what it's worth, my next car will likely be slower than any of the cars being discussed anyway. Engagement clock is ticking down...

Milliseconds? Think about what you are saying dude.

You can also find completely stock Mustangs that run much faster than 12.7. FWIW, the "premium" package you mentioned is not optimized for quarter mile racing at all. In fact, it's quite bad at the 1/4 mile. It's designed for back roads, track days, etc.

You get what im saying.

12 hour shift, 4 hours of sleep and baby appointment dont make for good feedback, lol.

:icon18:

1) Do you know how much 2 milliseconds is? That's 0.002 seconds. There's more variation than that in the same car from run to run. I think you meant 2 tenths of a second.

2) Looked at the times here? I WAS the one who ran 12.9 stock. I know more than anyone that that run was more luck than the car being really fast. I've gotten full bolt ons on my car now and I still can't even hit my stock time again.

3) "Barely track ready" implies that the car is still track ready, which the Z is not.

:tiphat:

We would probably die if we could do a .129 second 1/4 mile :bowrofl:

3 years ago the mustang was a 4.6 and the Z was faster and way better. Cars evolve on different schedules dude. Whats better this year in ford may end up being weaker due to a new chevy ford nissan or whatever

I just drove a juke monday while getting an oil change. CVT on the juke isn't the epitome of fun but that boost kicks in and with the right nudging from the accelerator and things happen. Jukes are shiftable now with DRM. throw that in with boost and it's not that bad. CVT on an NA car vs a car wwith boost offers different experiences. You're reading too many mags and listening to too many people around you. Don't like a CVT fine? Try the manual? I have... Whats your complaint there. The juke manual is mad fun. I find fun in both, just different kinds. If all you do is throttle and brake and go around the block? You dont experience shyt. I've bought over $200,000 in nissans in the last 7 years. I go into my dealershi[p and ask for a test drive. I get the keys, no escort. Have tyou really test driven a juke? lol

Or is it FWD is only fun when its a focus and Not when its a Juke? :GTFO:

This is just a thread to bash eachother and everyone's opinions obviously.

I'm just bored at work :icon17:

Don't be mad man, Nissan can barely sell 2013 z models. It's time for a major change

Im not mad. I love both cars. I think both look extremely good and perform well for what they are. But as i said, i just didnt think the mustang was extremely superior to the Z given its power rating and "drag" advantage over the Z. Thats all i was trying to get at, lol.