are u serious with that avatar and SIG?

http://media.ziptied.com/members/fil...al_with_it.gif

:icon18:

Maybe I'm just really tired, but :roflpuke2:

Let a Genesis owner jump in on this...

Personally I'll pass on the new facelift. The extra bump in power doesn't make up for it, for me. Plus it's direct injected now. I have the 2.0T R-Spec not the V6 though.

Granted my 2.0 is modded and costs more than most 370's in it's current state. I run with a lot of 370's on the track and pull faster lap times. I also dog it all day and leave the track without oil temp issues.

If I wasn't a track junkie I would have sprung for the Nismo 370 I was eyeing for a while. On paper the new Gen might stack up to the 370 number wise but I don't think it's really a competitor.

BTW: Old Prefacelifted Gen Coupe is good proof, that power is nothing. 155kW 2.0 Turbo engine means 0-62 in 8 seconds and 224km/h top speed.

My mums VW Tiguan 2008 does it under 8.5 seconds in automatic and it will take 7,5 seconds if she chose manual gearbox. And it is SUV with just 2.0T 200HP engine! :driving:

If you look at Hyundai cars on the road, almost each and every one copies style elements from higher-end cars (i.e. Mercedes, Infiniti, etc.)

Replicas are acceptable to some people, but not to me.

I think that's why we like Z cars. They're original and never had to copy for validation.

Yes you are right! But Nissan overslept in technology it looks like. Don't mean Juke R or GTR, which are really advanced cars in technology.

Ughhhh??? Body rigidity missing??? I've tossed a gencoupe hard and body rigidity is everywhere. I will agree the suspension leaves a little to be desired. But that's because its the only ready for drift suspension right off the dealership. If you don't drift? You can't appreciate the gen setup. Being that its the only drift ready import right now for the money, I respect the gencoupe.
The biggest problems with the gencoupe is a overly sh1tty manual, a ecu controlled,paddleshifted auto with too many safeguards, iron suspension components creating too much weight surrounding the tires. Sport pkg tires aren't wide enough for real performance driving and too many creeks and rattles inside of months of ownership. Warranty fixes are constant.

As far as the facelift. It looks hella forced. Its horrible. The interior facelift. It looks like an M3 and a G37 had sex and made the worlds most unoriginal non fluid interior possible. Gen is going backward design.

As impressive as 350hp sounds the gen seems to have a hard time putting down performance numbers that match the power they claim. Time will tell if the gencoupe succeeds at pushing out proper numbers for the power claims.

Do you know your Z history? The 1970 240z was practically a replica of a 61 ferrari GT. When the 350z was designed. Nissan looked over the porsche 911 and used many engineering and styling cues for its design. The 370z looks like half 240z half cayman. The Z does a better job in design "integrity". But its still a copy non the least.

Actually 370Z looks like in many angles like 911 997 Turbo. Rear wheel arches are really similar. But it still has its own of design. Btw: do you remember TV series Viper? Transformed Dodge Viper to that supercar has two teeth in front fang too.
But I still love it!

Are the gear ratios in the Gen coupe any good? I don't even know if they have 5spd or 6spd manuals? Final drive ratio? Power is nothing if you have terrible gearing.

I agree to a point, but where Nissan took design cues, Hyundai seems to outright copy sometimes. All companies take design elements from one another, even the luxury and exotic brands. Hyundai just seems to take it a little too far sometimes, to the point of plagiarism. The Equus looks like a Lexus LS twin and to a small degree the current gen coupe to the g37 coupe. They have started to break away from those designs though, which I'm really glad they're doing. The Veloster for example, is a huge step in building a distinct brand design. I still can't bring myself to really gen coupe for some reason. I dunno, it just seems like a work in progress.

Yeaah I remember that show. It was corny but fun.:tup: way better than knight rider 2000 remember that one with 4 different KITT style cars. Lol.

You're right the 370z does take on 997 cues as well but that's my point. Yes its true that the Z stands out more as a unique vehicle. But I would credit that to the 2 seat coupe market being rare and niché. (Roadsters EXCLUDED). That being said. I prefer my Z over any car in the price range and cars up to 20k above. I haven't found anything worth trading up to that isn't at least 70k. But the Z is still taking cues from cars... awesome and expensive ones but still taking cues.

I agree with the what you are saying on most points. The thing is the original 240 and ferrari gt had more than just styling cues. It outright completely resembled. That was 40 years ago and nissan is only like 50 years old in the US.
And you are right. The hyundai is still a work in progress, the gencoupe is awesome "for what it is". But when you have driven many a sports car hard. The gen just doesn't add up in stock formation. The coupe was sold to be a potential tuner car as the japanese sports cars but they have done things that make it near unworthy for a serious tuner. As mentioned before, invasive ecu and things like dual cats and subpar transmissions. The Z does have the experience and heritage.
I'm just glad hyundai stepped up where no one would go and fill that 25-35k rwd car with a formiddable platform. As far as the equus, you are right but there's also over 20k in difference. They won't touch the same buyers for the most part. Hyundai is great for the under 30 and over 60 crowd. For a Z owner, its a work in progress. For a novice or intermediate tuner. Its more than enough to get excellent winnable performance.

Koreans have the ability to make a copy of anything look like the real thing. If you have been to S. Korea you know what I'm talking about.

So it's part of their culture/belief system.

In the same way Germans believing they are superior to others.

I actually don't know Z history. My history with cars comes mostly from my Dad and the cars he drove while i was growing up. He claims his favorite was his 1984 Carrera Targa, but his best was Lexus LS400. He drove all sorts of different cars from different countries, but for sports cars he liked the 911.

As i grow older, i'm learning to appreciate different cars for what they are.

Certain cars appeal to different parts of the psyche, it seems.

The 370z is what attracted me to Z cars. I never knew about them before.

One of the cool things about the Z car is it's history. I like cars that have some soul... cars that actually came from somewhere. Z, Mustang, Corvette, 911, etc... all these cars started somewhere and have evolved over the years in their own special ways.

It's just cool to hop behind the wheel and think "Man, I could be sitting right here back in 1953/1955/1964.5/1969 when this was just getting started..."

I get all nostalgic and emo. :bowrofl:

Not saying this with any douchebaggery at all. But you have to know the history of two cars before you compare and say one copies while the other is original. The Z is a copy. Its just when nissan makes a copy. They do it right!!!!! Its in good taste and more than palettable. The Z though has cues from several cars. Its been done to where you can appreciate the cars sense of individualism in spite of.
But the great part about forums. You enter green and leave with a PHD. Lol.

As for the gen owner that made previous statements about the Z's oil issue and stating it an unsuitable track car. Understand it costs the same to make the Z a suitable track car as it takes for the gen. Gen stock suspension really sucks around the track. Without a coilover the gen does nothing. Once you add a coilover and arms etc... the gen turns into a whole different animal. Stock gen tire width is not all that great for the track. Give it Z sized tires and grip sharply increases to help with better track numbers
These are areas where the Z is strong. The Z needs an oil cooler, granted. It needs new pads and heat dissipating rotors and lines. This is true. A bodykit that's ducted to assist in brake cooling is necessary. And it stops there. The Z b.kit would run around 2k, the line rotor pad set up around 1k and an oil cooler around 1k. That's 4k in mods.
For the gencoupe. An appropraite coilover is around 1.5k, proper wheels with matching sized tires are a 2.5k minimum. So theaverage cost is about the same for them to be equal in endurance and acceptable track performance.
As far as 2.0's running with 370z's??? I sincerely need to see that vid on you tube... 3.8's with full bolt ons can't run next to stock Z's. And modded 2.0's can't hold more than 360hp before the engine blows. The transmission implodes under hard use and seals break everywhere if boost goes over 18psi. The claimed 29psi boost limit is a gross exaggeration made by hyundai. Put a full bolted on Z on a 3/4 potential 2.0 (the gen limit b4 it implodes). The Z takes it. Even when overboosted the torque curve is short on a 2.0. Get an evo swap in a 2.0... then maybe we will see a gen run with a Z.

Tell me what you know about 2.0 Gen's limit? Because none of what you just said holds any water. Btw, I'm pushing 21 psi and I'm fine. There are many on 3076 pushing 19 psi @ 400+ all day. And 29 psi? Wtf were you reading? lollol. The stock TD04 is only efficient to 21 psi. Transmission issues have been remedied for 2011/2012 models. Even if it blows, I'm not worried. 100k warranty is still intact.

$1,100 bucks for Stances will be good enough. Anything better would be $4,000 Cuscos.

4B11's can hold the power, but are you a good enough driver to use it properly?

Please do your research before you fill the forum with false information. Also do a track day and when a Miata/Civic passes you, don't look around like you don't know what happened because those cars don't "compare" to your Z. This isn't a **** size contest. Stop comparing numbers and 1/4 mile times to the track.

At the end of the day, driver mod > car. But this topic was about paper numbers not driving skill in the first place.

It's nice to upgrade the driver, but there is only so much you can do before HP eats you up.

I'll bite...



We are comparing Gens to 370s. The gap in power is not 300 +/-

I' m not old old enough to remember 240Z era, but in history articles is described desperation of buyers. Too many buyers and limited production caused, that dealers became stealers. You want second mirror which came from factory with car? You have to pay for it, just like these carpets, stereo and many other parts of car were uninstalled for later install. Just for raising price and profit. Same it was with Jag E-type. Both cars were cheap in its time, so it was bargain.

Tradition is what I don't like about GTR. I want Skyline GTR. I know, that GTR R35 is first worldwide distributed Skyline, but where is Nissan's pride about this legend? Just like Z is legend after decades of great cars with soul and it's own way of philosophy how to make sports car.

21psi on a td04? That's awesome, can it still only run 14's in a 1/4 mile? You said your turbo is "efficient" at 21psi. But I am willing to bet a dyno will show your powerband puking and dieing near redline. (Small worthless turbos tend to do that).

Looking over at the gencoupe site, I am not seeing a lot of "fast" or "nicely built" 2.0T gens. Most seem content running high 14's (and some aren't even able to break 100mph, when modded).

Let's be honest. The gencoupe was never comparable to the Z, outside of the fact it kind of looked like one, and was a coupe. Power wise, it's not there. Even with this upgrade, I doubt it will be there.

Posting videos of purely track cars vs daily drivers doesn't really prove anything performance wise.

I know you're trying to validate purchasing a gencoupe, and that's cool, but remember that you are one a forum with mainly Z drivers who could have easily bought gens if they thought they were worth the money...but, we didn't...

^^^ What are the specs for the Honda CR-X KBS ? ^^^ It couldn't quite keep up with 6.2 liters of displacement on the straights.

Yeah, you're right. I'd never heard of the 240z being a copy of a Ferrari. What I knew is that it had been made as an affordable, every day sports car by Datsun.

Guess I am showing my age but I remember when the Mustang first came out and I wanted my parents to buy one for me..but $2500 was just way way too much!!:icon18:

That video doesn't mean much to me. You have what is essentially a stripped out race car (which I'm not seeing being street legal either) and a good driver against what appears to be a DD Corvette with a not so good driver. If you had drivers of equal skill that corvette would still pull away from the race prpped civic. Now if the corvette driver was good and had a race prepped corvette, you would be back to where it would be if you compared a stock civic to a stock vette

Yawn... obviously you need to learn how to read. This just became a dic* size contest. Your the epitome of a douche Z driver. So I'll keep it brief and save my breath.

Both videos were pointless. If you didn't catch on to that. Sorry they weren't 1/4 miles :tiphat:

And who are you to say someone made the wrong car purchase by not getting a Z? lollol. I'm not trying to validate my purchase. With the money spent on my 2.0 including car I could have bought a Nismo out right and then some.

It makes me feel better when I pass you guys like you in a Hyundai. But I'd never see you on a track in the first place, unless it's a drag strip on a Friday night, right? But 13.3...? That's sorry. Gens with ported stock turbos run that for far less money. Don't let that ego of yours go too far now.

+1 for you though, yeah your right there aren't many on the forums. I usually stay off it for that reason.

Now lets get this thread back on topic :inoutroflpuke:

Like global financial markets, this thread has collapsed.

meh

hahaha, sorry I'm not scared of any Hyndai. Of course they had to up the bar doesn't mean they built a better car, for those of us with bolt ons and a tune this is laughable.

Can you show me 1 genesis 2.0T with a ported turbo that ran better? I've been on gencoupe quite a bit and have not seen many.

I don't recall saying YOU made a mistake by buying your car. Can you point out to me where I did?

And yes, those videos weren't 1/4 mile times, but I would say a 1/4 mile is a good way to judge power. Where as on a track, the driver matter more or at least equal to the performance of a car. I can pull up videos of a pro driver in a civic beating "sports" cars. Does that instantly make the civic a better car?

Here is one with 287 vs 332 HP



287 had better tires and was driven way harder, it was still slower. It's still hard to beat HP.....

I doubt the Z06 had 700HP

1/4 time is not about power. It is more about weight/power ratio (which is for MY11 Gen Coupe TERRIBLE in comparison to Z34). But what is more important, how easily it can transform that power to speed. Which is also problem of Hyundai if I compare old Tiburon (in Europe just Coupe) in 2.0i and GEN Coupe 2.0T there is no improvement in 0-62mph times! And we talk about a lot weaker NA 2.0 and FWD car made by Hyundai.

I think there needs to be a little more clarification.

1/4 mile TRAP SPEED is more reflective of car power.
1/4 mile E.T. is a combination of power, grip, driver.

One thing to keep in mind... you can always add power to a car, just dump money into the engine bay. You cannot, however, alter things like chassis construction / shape / weight placement, etc without virtually destroying the car. Once you have THAT kind of money to seriously alter the nature of the car, this entire conversation is moot.

It's easy to pick up a few lateral tenths in G-forces with tires, sway, suspension work, etc... but it's much easier to reach very high levels of cornering with a car built as a sports car to begin with. There's a reason why GT2 cars are all porsches / corvettes, etc.

I don't think either car is a drag car necessarily. I go to the track (road course). In fact I just went last weekend and I didn't see one Genesis coupe there (well I did but it was my friends and he wasn't running).

My car's heavily modded too, outruns other Z's and most likely any Genesis on track, I can mash it around town all day long and I don't have any oil temp issues on or off track and blah blah blah... so?

The bottom line is that this is a Z forum. A car with a history (not to mention the best selling sport car in the US). The Genesis is really the FIRST worthy car that Hyundai has put out. I personally like the car but I wouldn't take it over a Z. Noway.