Yeah but it's hard to swallow because much to Porsche's credit, they tend to make leaps and bounds in styling and performance YEAR TO YEAR. I think the Z has gotten what in 3 years now... an oil cooler? lol

Right when I think I like a Porsche, I almost want to wait for the new one because it will undoubtedly have more hp, downforce and different styling that's actually noteacible.

Did I spell noticeable right?
Noticable
Noticible
Ummm...

Years ago, I think I read the median income of a 911 owner was almost $390K and about 45 years old, 80%+ male.

A new 991 PDK is going to cost about $95+ with a few options. A 991 C2S PDK about
$110K optioned lightly. You can easily add $10k-$15K in options in a blink.

Low mileage second generation PDK cars are holding values much better then first generation cars for a couple of reasons. New DI engines that are more reliable, more powerful and the introduction of PDK. PDK + Sports Chrono Plus cars are way more desirable. Plus Porsche North America re-allocated NA supply at the end of '09 so the US got about 40% less cars. A '09 base CPO 997.2 PDK with average options is about $65K-$70K. A CPO '09 997.2 C2S PDK is very desirable car, used about $80K. Manual first generation 997.1 cars are a lot less desirable. You can buy a '05 997 for around $40K plus repairs. Even less desirable are probably Tiptronic cars?

Used can be a good deal but it will still be a Porsche and Porsche is a expensive car to keep up and repair. A used $40K 911 is still a $80K+ car to repair.

Here is a perspective, a new $100K 911 depreciates about the entire cost of a new $40K Z in 40 months. Or you can buy a new Z and M3 for the same cost of a loaded C2S. Will the C2S still sell...yes. Different strokes for different folks. Just be happy something as good as the Z is offered for $35K-$40K. It's a deal at it's price point.

For $100K I think many on this forum would probably buy a GT-R over a 991?

It's the best value to performance for the money.

Yeah, if I'm dropping 100k I need at least 500hp (stock) in return.

For $100k I'd be happy with a 911 and a 7m40s 'Ring lap. :)

Not that I wouldn't enjoy the 100k 911, but I think I would just have 911-Turbo-S envy.

Always tough when there's something better out there.

I was just pricing all the different 911 models online last night. The difference between a regular model and an "s" model is astronomical when you're talking about the turbo. I think it was like 30k for another 50hp? My stats could be wrong but oi!

And 250k for the GT2... Double oi! Not to mention that the turbo s is waaaay more than a GT3 rs. They say that the GT3 rs is more of a "drivers" car than the turbo. I would have to go with the GT3 I think..

Given the choice of a awd and rwd 911, i think i would have to take the rwd because of the unique driving characteristic that i feel awd depreciates from the rear engined legend. the 911. so just give me a carerra s or a gts. and i would be plenty happy. I could car less about paper stats regarding the turbo S. or the Gt3/gt2. If I am buying a 911 its because i want a 911. not a supercar on drag race steroids or a track car designed to destroy the nissan GTR.

EDIT: kinda like my scotch. anymore than one ice cube, I will yell about. it dilutes it too much.

That Turbo envy would cost a additional $65K+.

Closer to $20K for the jump from a C2 to C2S. You get other options plus the 50hp. Many feel it is worth it if you have the extra coin.

Many do not like turbo cars. Turbo cars do not deliver power as liner as a naturally inspired car. The GT3 RS 4.0 is probably the ultimate 997 series 911.

I think the new 991 series is going to hit it out of the park if the economy does not kill it.

I agree the 370Z is a exceptional deal for the money.

:iagree:

I'm just saying if you can comfortably drop $100k on a 2-seater, you can probably afford a little extra to get an even better model. But that's just me (not that I can afford either one).

But then where does it stop? There's definitely a big difference between spending $100k on a standard 911 and then maybe $50k more on a Turbo if you are not super rich. Someone making $250k/yr might be comfortable putting 25% or so down and financing the remainder on a $100k 911, but it might not be so nice if your total cost was in excess of $150k.

But that goes back to what was said earlier, that the median income of the 911 owner was somewhere around $390k. I'm sure at $390k/yr the difference between $100k and $150k over 3-5 years is not that much at all. ;)

Plus you get four seats with the 911. Two for humans and two more for groceries. :icon17:

Good points. And I forgot about those "seats" in the back.

The economy is the key today. $390K a year is very-very well off but not super rich today. The first things to go are the toys when the economy is in trouble. Used Ferrari prices are super low right now because they are not practical cars. You can buy a super mint 360 F1 for the same price as a new GT-R all day now. Fortunately for Porsche their cars are much more practical and used daily so prices hold better. It's still a buyers market for most things today if you have cash.

:roflpuke2:

The new 991 looks pretty amazing.

IMO.

1. You pay more because of the badge.
2. You pay more because of more expensive materials used sometimes.
3. You pay more because of the prestige associated with it.
4. You pay more because of the general public's perception of the brand.
5. You exponentially pay more as the performance factor goes up.
6. Porsche STING you for option costs.

What gets me though is that these cars are so expensive and people believe them to be well/over engineered, but in many cases this is not true. For example
Porsche had well publicsed problems with the rear/inner main seal on engines that could cost a ton of dollars to fix. BMW had problems with weak and cracking subframes on their 3 series cars and M3's. So why are "we" paying so much more money for cars like this then when problems like this crop up?

Do these expensive cars last longer? Not from what I have seen. Additionally why are service costs so pricey for these cars? you would think that the extra dosh you're handing over would have gone into R & D to produce an "easy" to service car.

i'm tired now so i'll stop and just read the rest of the posts.

So, if you are not a value shopper...are you just a guy with more money than sense?

Nah, value is relative.

HAHA I see what you did there. ;)

Damn, and people whine about the Z going into limp mode or having noisy rear wheel wells, stuck hatch, etc...

always wondered that myself. i highly doubt it's the parts. unless they use unicorn blood, their oils can't be that much more expensive than other cars. so i'm guessing they screw you on the labor charge.

Porsche Driving Experience Winter 2011/2012 Features Porsche 911 (991)

Apparently the new 991 911 is a winter car. I don't care. If it comes down to sending my unborn children to college or getting a 911....well they better work hard for a scholarship :happydance:

Quite the post now....I've always thought the 911 turbo was a good value compared to some of the other cars its tested against. I've always loved porshes and I can't tell you why. I just love the 911's. I would buy one, if I had the money, for that alone. I personally don't care if a less expensive car can beat me on a race track. I buy it because it moves me.

Post of the thread. Well said. Sums up car obsession for me as well.

Drive what you like and what makes you smile. Life is too short. As Ferris Beuller said- ' if you have the means I highly suggest getting one'

No one will take better care of you....... than you. :)

:stirthepot:

:bowrofl:

That's funny because the last time I was at VIR for the HSR stuff these 1960s Mustangs and Camaros were whooping on the 1970s 911s. :bowrofl:

Thats just cause the 911 drivers were enjoying their shiatsu massage and starbucks!

Edit: Like a boss!

:bowrofl:

Of course..... the real boss is the 911 5.0 swap.... :ughdance: :rofl2:

Oh noez! You said 5.0, now this thread is gonna be locked. Ibtl :roflpuke2:

Ibtl

not the coyote 5.0

the porsche 5.0 flat six with 9 turbochargers, 2 superchargers, nitrous, alcohol, and stickers!