5.0

Red__Zed · 02-02-2012, 07:54 AM

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Originally Posted by Pharmacist

test drove one a few days ago and agree with most of what you say. but i do have a few observations:

- the mustang may "feel" faster at turn in, and may very well be more neutral than a Z or even an M3, both of which are designed with a slight bit of understeer from the factory. but you also have to remember that part of it is due to the very unusual square set up of the tires with the brembo package (mostly due to the skinny rear wheels on the mustang). almost all performance RWD cars come from the factory with staggered set up with the rear wheels being wider. pretty sure you can eliminate the understeer on the Z, or the M3, or any other RWD car, with a simple wheel/tire swap to a square set up. Anyway, a mustang may "feel" like a better handler than a Z, but objectively, numbers don't lie and I don't recall a single time when a mustang objectively bettered a 370z in terms of cornering g's or lateral grip, either on a skidpad, slalom, or road course.

Not sure if serious. Lap times>skid pad numbers. Read my post again if you aren't sure why. I also don't think you understand what turn in is.

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- the big size thing I find really unacceptable. why they had to make it so darn huge compared to the previous generation mustang, i have no clue. but to be honest, if i were to get a car that big, i might as well go all the way and get a 4 dr sedan for the added practicality. small and impractical i can understand. big and practical i can understand. big and relatively impractical is just illogical.

fair

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- the numb steering is probably in part due to the electric power steering. no idea why ford would do that. bmw actually removes electric power steering from the M version of its cars and replaced them with hydraulic systems for better steering feel

Steering is always weird. Two years after a car has the worst steering feel around, it has the best. Cars keep getting worse. Just gotta deal.

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-what do you mean by bump steer prone Z? I never had any bump steer on my Z. In fact the rear end was very planted and had lots of grip. maybe you drive on roads full of bumps and enormous potholes. but if that's the case, you dont need a sports car, but a 4X4 jeep. eitherway, any bump steer problems you had on the z are probably due to the stiffer springs and dampers relative to the mustang, not because of the multilink suspension.

Hook a z up to bump steer gauge, jack the tire, and watch the toe. You've proven time and time again you willfully ignore proof, so observe it for yourself.

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- do you have the actual numbers about stopping distance of a mustang being shorter than a 370z? i was quite unimpressed by the look of the brembo brakes. the front rotors are about the same as the z (i believe both are 14 inch) as for the rear brakes, they for some reason remain sliding calipers, not sure if they're any bigger than the non brembo mustang brakes. for a car that big with brakes that small, i can't see how it can outbrake a 370z. could be pad material, but then again, a z's brake pads aren't really all that bad (as long as you don't overheat them with repeated braking)

Sure. Any head to head test shows the mustang winning. Perhaps you might choose c&d's "best handling car under $40k," showing the mustang doing 70-0 in 154' vs the z's 158.

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My conclusion: A 370z is still the proper sports car. The mustang is a very good handling muscle car (undergoing a slow transformation to a sports car).

I will never understand this forum's fixation on defending the z as a "sports car."

If that's what matters to you, keep it.

Pharmacist · 02-02-2012, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Not sure if serious. Lap times>skid pad numbers. Read my post again if you aren't sure why. I also don't think you understand what turn in is.

laptimes are also dependent on power and straight line acceleration too. show me ONE test when a mustang outhandled a z. car and driver (i think) tested best handling cars, and they found out after eliminating the straight sections from lap times that the mustang and z were pretty much even.

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Hook a z up to bump steer gauge, jack the tire, and watch the toe. You've proven time and time again you willfully ignore proof, so observe it for yourself.

Not sure what your point is. I never felt the car unstable either in a straight line or a turn. I care more about what I feel as a driver than what some gauge on a lift in a garage says. I'd say that gauge is probably even less relevant to car handling than a skidpad is.

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Sure. Any head to head test shows the mustang winning. Perhaps you might choose c&d's "best handling car under $40k," showing the mustang doing 70-0 in 154' vs the z's 158.

will check it when i go home. i think i have that magazine.

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I will never understand this forum's fixation on defending the z as a "sports car."

You don't get what makes a "sports car" the way it is?

m4a1mustang · 02-02-2012, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

Not sure what your point is. I never felt the car unstable either in a straight line or a turn. I care more about what I feel as a driver than what some gauge on a lift in a garage says. I'd say that gauge is probably even less relevant to car handling than a skidpad is.

I guess that's why race teams spend more time on the skid pad than they do trying to understand dynamic toe. /sarcasm.

Red__Zed · 02-02-2012, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

laptimes are also dependent on power and straight line acceleration too. show me ONE test when a mustang outhandled a z. car and driver (i think) tested best handling cars, and they found out after eliminating the straight sections from lap times that the mustang and z were pretty much even.

Dead even without straights. Tells you exactly what I said.

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Not sure what your point is. I never felt the car unstable either in a straight line or a turn. I care more about what I feel as a driver than what some gauge on a lift in a garage says. I'd say that gauge is probably even less relevant to car handling than a skidpad is.

Other people notice it. Your experience in a whopping 1 rwd car in your life means I don't put much stake in your ability to feel subtleties like that.

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will check it when i go home. i think i have that magazine.
You don't get what makes a "sports car" the way it is?

No, I do. It is just very subjective, and largely irrelevant to the discussion.