2012 Mazda RX7?
 

Mazda RX-7 & RX-9 in the Works - worldcarfans

Hmmmm... Does the Z have anything to worry about with a 2012 RX7 that has a 270 HP, 200 Pound Feet, 2650 pound, dual clutch tranny when it comes to the track??

HP
370Z: 332
2012 RX7: 270 (est)

Torque
370Z: 270
2012 RX7: 200 (est)

Weight
370Z: 3320
2012 RX7: 2650 (est)

Transmission
370Z: 7AT / Rev Matching 6MT
2012 RX7: 6 speed DCT

2012 is a long ways off and in this crappy economy, time will only tell if it makes it into production.

But as a former original FD owner, a new RX-7 is something that I'd welcome. I have my doubts about whether Mazda can make it that light and if the 16x rotary will really deliver the power needed to compete with the Z. If Mazda is able to pull it off and wrap it in a super sexy shape like my old FD, it will certainly peak my interest.

A lot of things can happen in that time frame. The chevy volt went from incredible to forgettable in like, 2 months.

True about 2012 being a ways off. I am surprised this is still on the shelf at Mazda. They have been testing the 16x and talking about this for two years already. Well, it if makes it, at least they would have had y e a r s of R&D.

My brother in law works at a Mazda dealership and they had a mule RX8 with the 16x in it; we think. He will not 'confirm or deny'.

I doubt we'll see this. But I must say that the rendering they have is very ugly and not RX-7ish at all.

I'd imagine a 3-rotor motor would be good, but I doubt they'd ever do that again. I don't know anything about the 16x, but I'm going to assume it's 2 rotors.

I'd like to see a rotary miata, to be honest. Smaller more powerful motor in that car would be sweet.

I know it would be sacrilege, but I'd love it if Mazda put the 2.4L turbo from the speed3 and 6 into the rx-8 body, a little more boost and it would put down the hp and tq figures needed to make the rx-8 a world class car. Keep the light weight, keep the great chassis, but the current engine has been considered under powered for what, 8 years now??

That rendering looks like someone sat on an R8.

I'd be happy with a new RX-7 but I don't see it as realistic, especially not if its going to look like that.

The 16x is a two rotor, but has more displacement; and it is lighter than the current engine. From what I have heard, the redline will be lower than the RX8's in an effort to find more torque.....

I like the 93+ RX7 body more still. It doesnt look dated to me so I think they should bring it back and forget that new one. :D

As a former FD owner I would love to see a the real rx version of the sports car..not the rx8.

I have a RX8 and would LOVE to see a real rotary sports car!

Yes!
Nice find. It's about time mazda is doing something. I will have to admit I really like the new design. Hopefully it will come to production even though the economy is crap.

what they need to do is boost the damn engine.

If they can hold to that curb weight, it will be a serious competitor.

I don't think they'll be able to. Safety guild lines alone will bump that weight up 400-500 Lbs. After the safety commissions get their hands on it, they'll either add weight or they won't pass it.

As an RX-8 owner, and a track addict I can tell you, without question, that if this comes to pass, certainly the Z would have something to worry about on track. I mean really ~700lb less weight than the Z, only down ~50HP? The end-goal has been said to be a Porsche Cayman weight sports car with a Rotary engine, at a far nicer price.

But it's a crap shoot as to whether this will ever even be seen even in concept - forget production. It's akin to the holy grail relative to today's RENESIS rotary. So I wouldn't hold my breath, but then again I wouldn't be surprised either, after all, with the demise of the RX-7 everyone thought the rotary was dead..until the RX-8!

What would be required:
1) More power, more torque
2) 10-15% weight savings
3) Better fuel economy
4) Better emmisions
5) Still affordable

Then how does the Cayman get away with a 2900 pound weight?

I could see 200-300 due to safety guidelines, but not the 400-500 you suggest.

What I've been wondering (about Porsche) myself but I guess "Less is More" - $$$$ that is LOL!

As for how Mazda is going to loose the weight, from their press release on the subject:

Ever been in a Porsche? There's nothing but a seat a wheel and some gauges. The Ruff Porsches don't even have door handles. They have pull strings! Believe me, the Cayman doesn't weigh anything because their is nothing.

That's already a stripped car that weighs 2900. You think Mazda is going to come out with a stripped car that they can sell? Especially thinking they can get the car down to 2650!!!??? HELL no!

That car is going to break 3100 EASY! The ZR1 is almost all carbon fiber and it weighs more than 3200 Lbs! AND IT'S A RACE CAR!!!! No way the RX-7 is getting close to 2650.

My Solstice weighs in at exactly 3000 Lbs with 1/2 a tank of gas. And there's almost NOTHING to that car. I'd be VERY impressed if Mazda can produce a car that weighs even 2900Lbs straight from the factory.

It will still be a nice competitor. I hope it does come out. Maybe it won't be 2600lbs but if it hits 3k all they have to do is bump the hp to 300 or so.

:icon18: A Cayman doesn't have anything? That's the first time I've heard that lol! Nothing certainly does cost a pretty penny...

...but....Have you ever been in an RX-8? It's a 4 dr sedan. It's far from stripped down, not a Lexus, but good materials, solid, 4 adult useable (2 heated) leather seats, sunroof, Bose, etc. I've added heavier solid sway bars, coilovers, f/r 4-pt strutbars, PC680 bat, etc and ....when corner weighted with 150lb sandbag in the front seat (aka me)....3147lbs

... so my RX-8 is ~3,000lbs. Taking away 220lb (100kg) gets to 2780lbs.... sounds reasonable with the removal of 2 rear seats, sunroof, some wheelbase & bodywork...more aluminum... 2700-2800lb shouldn't be THAT hard for Mazda.

Mazda :tiphat: KNOWS weight is the enemy of everything good in a sports car

??? I said the RX car would be 2650 + 200 or 300 pounds with the new safety regs, bringing the car to a 2850-2950 pound weight. The Cayman is definately not a stipped car! GT3 RS= stripped, Cayman, no....

As 370sed stated, look at the RX8; it weighs 3050 now and it is have all the new safety features. Take out the rear seats, shortened the chasis and you could easily drop 150-200 pounds.

Lastly, the ZR1 weighs more like 3300 pounds, the Z06 weighs 3130. Even still, what weighs them down the most? THEIR ENGINE!! The Rotary cars chasis weighs about par with most other sport cars; their savings come from the wieght of the Rotary engine versus a piston engine. Put a 2 Rotor in a ZR1 and watch the weight come down at least 300-450 pounds if not more.

LS7 doesn't way much. It weighs a couple more pounds than an LS1 which weighs 475Lbs. That's VERY light for a V8. You want to talk about heavy motors, Exotics have HEAVY motors at the same displacement. The LS9 weights about 100Lbs more than the LS7 because of the supercharger and extra liquid cooling. Both motors use dry-sump so they're a tad heavier there, but the reason why the Corvette weighs as much as it does is it's frame which is a FANTASTIC platform. So there's no sacrifice.

Granted the RX-8 weighs 3060 (as what I've read), but I still don't see them dropping that much weight. The smaller the car, the more strict the safety standards are.

ALL Porsches are stripped down. Just some more than others. I used to work at a Porsche dismantler.

Right, whereas the Rotarys weigh about 200 pounds. So a 300 pound different at least from the V8's.

The RX8's have already passed the safety standards! When orginally released, they weighted 2950; now they weigh 3050. Again, minus the two seats and they very well could shave the 200- 250 pounds. Remember, the 16X engine is lighter than the current engine.

Where Nissan could not shed weight by getting smaller (engine weight added the 42 pounds), Mazda can as their new larger engine weighs less. Very feasible and IF this comes to past, the 370Z MAY have to worry about it.

Guess we will see.

Um, yes. Before my Z, I've owned and tracked a boxster s for the last for years... all the necessary luxuries, with nothing unnecessary I agree... still, it only got light after I swapped out parts from the factory for aftermarket... had it down to 3050 with driver... even then, had 7" nav/dvd, a/c, even door and door handles! :)... porsche is all about balance and handling, not absolute min weight... And, yes, I've driven Ruf cars as well... here's a couple pics from a recent 'pilgrimage' I made to Pfafenhausen... door handles everywhere ;) Ruf customers are not driving at the racetrack, they are generally mega-rich guys driving on the street or collecting

I'm personally looking forward to a new Rx-7 ! Had a gen 1 ('79) and gen 2 ('85)... wrecked both sadly, so hopefully now with a few more gray hairs I can keep the next one out of trouble! :) First one especially was a great car!

I hear that the rotary engines are expensive to fix if something goes wrong with them since it has less moving parts. I also heard that those engines won't last as long as a piston engine.

Well I hope mazda brings back the rx-7. I saw some more drawing of it and I didn't like it all that much, except for the front. I hope they improve on the looks. I also read that they might make it a turbo. I read that they are working on a forced inductions for it.

From those pics, I see a Ruf Cr3. Is that what you have?

Not ALL Ruf cars are tracked out. My old boss's speedball weighed close to 2500Lbs (as far as I recall) and was the most basic of interiors possible. But that was certainly a track car. (Though he drives it like a daily. LOL) Yeah, the Ruf cars are mega money, and I've worked for a lot of the richest guys in Los Angeles.

I'm not talking about what you CAN make a car weigh. I'm talking about what it DOES weigh from the factory. Anyone can strip a car and replace parts with after-market light weight parts... But what I'm saying is that the RX-7 will certainly leave no room for improvement if they DID meet their weight goal. (Which I still don't think they can if they follow the rules.) But it's true that a rotary motor weighs practically nothing, and that stripping the back seats from an RX-8 and shortening the chassis is going to reduce weight. I just don't think it's 200Lbs worth of weight. Hypothetically, if they're already using light weight materials as is, then they're stripping light-weight materials in the first place...

So take a step back an look at the big picture. The chassis will be a couple inches shorter, the motor will be, what, maybe 20Lbs lighter (if). And You don't have back seats. I see (with the motor weight) maybe 160-180Lbs difference. Then because the car is smaller and lighter, the safety standards change and become more strict adding more weight. Keep in mind that Mazda is already going to be taking a lot of these steps ahead of time to save money and time in the development, while also trying to get away with what every they can.

Now I don't disagree that if the car can even get down to about 3000Lbs that the RX-7 won't be a good contender, and I would LOVE to see another RX-7. I just think that 2650Lbs is a pipe-dream. I'm not trying to be argumentative... Just realistic.

Remember, the RX8 is already 3050 pounds. Thus, even with the 160-180 LBS loss you theorize, that would mean a curb weight of 2890 at least using your numbers. I agree the 2650 may be farfetched, but 2800-2900 is definately attainable. BTW - Mazda plans to use a new, lighter chasis for any new 7; so yes, it would be potentially even lighter.

And, I think there will still be options to lower weight (wheels, battery, etc). HOWEVER, Crash, I think where they will not be much room for improvement is with tuning. I bet any gains, aside from going FI, will be minimal.

That said, if the 370z can hang with a Cayman S (a little more weight than RX7 and much more HP) on a track/in the twisties, I would think it should be able to best this new RX7 on the track. Advantage RX7 in twisties, Advantage Z on full track runs.

Again, we will see come mid to late 2011.....

I definitely look forward to it. Rotaries have always loved boost. I can imagine that this will be a big deal when it happens. Any word on testing 16x with boost yet?

My friend's building a Porsche 930 with a TT Dual Rotor. His original plans were for a 3 rotor, but couldn't afford it. Either way, he's getting the entire built motor with turbos for dirt cheap. I have some video of me racing an FD somewhere. I'll find it. It was a 350HP FD (supposedly) but I honestly don't believe it. It was an interesting race, though. 3-way desert race between my 2002 Trans Am WS.6, my friends 1997 Formula Firebird, and the FD.

I really liked the FDs, and I always wanted one. But I just couldn't bring myself to buy a car with a motor that's a ticking time bomb. LOL

I had an early RX7 for over 10 years and had to rebuild the carburetor once. That was the sum total of nonscheduled maintenance. Rotary engines are expensive to work because not many mechanics have experience with them but as long as you don't let the oil get low, they are practically indestructable. They get poor gas mileage for their displacement but are unbeatable when it comes to power vs weight/size. I have always thought Lotus should have used the mazda engine in their Elise and Exige models instead of the Toyota. Would have been a better fit.

Agreed. Rotary engines are bulletproof (unless you put boost through it)!

I have not heard of any FI testing on the 16x. I THINK Mazda intends it to be a NA application. If they did do FI, it would probally be a positive displacement supercharger is my guess.

If it's gonna be FI, RX7 history says turbo or twin turbos. :D

True, but the word is they were moving away from the TT setup as it produced too much heat. The supercharger would not produce as much heat and it would give the rotary the much needed low end torque.

Frankly, if they go FI, I hope for the TT also!!!!

All RX-8s have an 8 year 100,000 mile warranty on the rotary engine core components (those few moving parts and housings). This was added to the original 4 year 50,000 mile to quell any doubts people might have had about engine longevity. Doesn't get any better than that does it? So warranty on my 2003 will be up in..let's see 2011 :tiphat:

Say, how long is a Z engine warrantied for anyway? :p

HA! So 370sed... Are you holding off until 2011 to see what happens with a new RX7?? I got my 8 in 06 and potentially have until 2014 (I only have 10k miles on my car).

I am SOOOOO torn at this point, but am leaning toward the Z next year.... You?

Mammoth 2.8H blower on a 2.0L rotary FTW!!! LOL 800HP!!!!

I can see a twin-screw on a rotary! That'd be pretty sweet and it'd use less room under the hood than the turbos even with a air/water intercooler.

I was considering a Z, but until and if the issue of track overheating is settled - no go. It would be my track car, but max 10 min HPDE sessions are not much fun....all the RX-8s would just go flying by lol.

Mazda really does need to pony up info on what's coming - and soon.

I have to agree with 370sed about the overheating oil issue. This is a pretty worrying issue but I believe it will be addressed fairly quickly by Nissan.

If Mazda makes an official statement announcing the return of the RX-7 I'd be willing to sell a body part to get one.

Regarding the topic of the 370Z vs. 4th Gen RX-7, I'd have to say the 370Z doesn't stand a chance. The new 16X is using aluminum housings as opposed to iron which is a huge savings in weight on the motor itself. The next RX-7 will have 50-50 weight distribution which already guarantees it to corner like a beast. As far as everyone arguing about whether it will be able to meet it's weight goals I'd have to say it's very likely that Mazda will just for the fact that on the 3rd Gens they used iron housings, twin turbos, pre-cat(weighs a lot), and had rear bins behind the seats and still managed to keep the base model in the high 2700's.

Mazda's serious worries on making a new rotary based car will be emissions. They already have a lot of expertise in making a true sports car...hell the rotary was banned from Le Mans cause Mazda beat the piston cars so bad. The one things that worries me is the styling they will decide to go with cause the RX-8 is hideous in comparison to the FD.

Enough of my ranting that probably makes no sense but anyways I'm a rotary fan-boy at heart but still love the 370Z as Nissan is the only one making bad *** tuner cars from Japan.

And that is why I am still torn. Maybe I will just wait a til 2011 to buy something. By then, we should have a better idea of what Mazda is doing.

But the Z is still hot.

50/50 weight distribution doesn't guarantee that the car will handle like a beast. It's likely that it WILL handle great, but the weight distribution is only one factor. Suspension, total weight, and tires are the other factors. But I agree, that it's very likely that it will be a canyon monster.

The FD with an LS1 was an unbeatable canyon car. Interesting enough, the FD's motor must have weighed quite a bit because an LS1+t56 in a FD added only 47Lbs to the car WITH A/C still installed. Not sure what that means about those motors, but I can tell you that either the trans or the motor weighed a LOT more than some RX-7 guys are willing to admit. I know this because we have a guy that occasionally comes out to our meets with an LS1'd FD. It has a T56 trans and that thing is REALLY fast.

**BRING ON THE FLAMING!**