Hot Hatches are for a different segment. It's for people that want to have a real backseat as well as being to haul **** from Costco or Lowes. I came from a VW GTI and I'll be honest, I love that car - it was a go-kart on roids; and when tuned, they are a beast. Not to say the 370z isn't faster but when compared to a tuned Golf-R or I will say the Focus RS; these cars offer alot of fun for the price. (GRANTED, $42k is a bit much; I think we all agree that if it was $37, it would be interesting); hell the Golf-R can be had for $38k and I think I would rather have that instead.

As for history, correct me if I'm wrong but the RS has history; just not in the US ;)

:iagree:

Ford is killing it , the fiesta st sold well, the focus at sold well. Their new mustangs are selling well. The GT350 and GT350r are In super high demand with everyone wanting to pre order one .

Vw has a new Golf r .. Mazda has a new Miata , wrx sold record amount this year Honda is releasing a new Ctr

Anyone know what Nissan is doing for enthusiasts besides still selling overpriced nismos I don't even see being sold still sitting at the dealerships.

Who the f**k cares. I love my Z.

Different cars for different folks. The one thing I see across all forums is the believe that 'the grass is always greener on the otherside'. I was guilty of this, I traded in my G35 coupe for a GTI - everyone thought I was pretty crazy to do so but I was like, when tuned, this will be the faster and better car. In some ways, it was the better car, but I don't believe it was faster or if it was; it was only slightly faster.

The GTI offered a 'fun factor' that no car that I have owned has give me (granted hoping the Z offers that LOL). But I had to put money into it in order for it to be fast, out of the box the GTI is a slow car with some nimbleness, but with with a tune, and some suspension upgrades the car really is FUN. I think that is what I want more than anything - a fun rewarding car; I don't care about 400-600HP straight line monster. I mean, yeah I'm sure it's fun but if you can't feel the road or have fun driving it - what's the point. Just my op and I'm sure there are differing opinions but I guess that is why I really enjoy hot hatches in general but it doesn't take anything away from the Z. :)

Nissan is totally due for a new Z. 6 years with the same basic car is an eternity in the automotive world. They went and invested big with the GTR since 09, and it seems as if alot of people forgot about the Z when the GTR came around. The 350/370 had, and still has a big grassroots and tuner following, but we are hungry for a new and improved platform that we can afford to run and race with. It will be interesting to see which direction they go with the car. Until then I'll be enjoying my 370 :)

I'm smelling Jungle Z in this post!!!!!

:horse:

I'm gonna bite - I think $42k loaded for this thing is right where it needs to be for where the market is with these types of cars. Hear me out.

A loaded Evo X MR is in the $40k range (at least the last of them, anyway). A loaded STI Limited without Subaru performance accessories touches $40k. A loaded Golf R with Navigation is $39,910 before destination. None of those cars in stock form come within 45-50hp of this Focus, a car aimed squarely at those three vehicles. None of those cars come with Recaro seats either (the Evo's last year with Recaros was 2014). None of those other cars are coming with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires at that price, either, and you can't even get close to the Golf R and Focus RS interiors with the Evo or the STI.

You can't compare a hot hatch to a Mustang in terms of price. So few people are going to cross shop a RWD grand tourer with an AWD hatch that it doesn't make sense to even consider it in the grand scheme of the product. Being the Z fanboy that I am, I couldn't even bring up the fact that the only other car I could think of in that price range with Recaro seats is the current Nismo Z or a Mustang GT with the track pack or whatever it is that gets you Recaros in that car.

You guys bringing the Merc into the argument have to realize that a stripped out CLA45 AMG (or an A45 AMG if it were brought here) is closer to $50k than $40k, and if you start optioning one of those things out, you're pretty much at $60k.

For what that car does in today's hot hatch segment, they nailed it. Pure and simple. Gotta pay to play.

I agree with Ricer on this one. I think they priced it pretty fairly. It's got easy tuning potential into the 400 hp range with bolt ons. To add to it it was developed from advice given by Ken Block to deliver fun performance. I believe once we start seeing some hands on driving reviews and test drives people will stop saying it's overpriced.

Anyways the base price is only $37k and most of the options are tech. I know that leather seats are in there as well but if the base seats are still Recaros then I'll keep my money on the leather; just give me the performance wheels tires and it's at $38-39k.

I've been really intrigued by this car since Ford announced they were bringing it to the States, but $42K is just seems like way too much to spend on a Focus. At best I'd probably buy a used one with a few miles on it in a couple years.

The same people said $40k was too much for a Lancer, or too much for an Impreza, or too much for a Golf. For every one of those people, there were at least three more that didn't share the same sentiment.

But let's pretend the A45 was here and all we got was the sport seats exhaust and nav. OK we'd be at 50K but, we'd be in a Benz vs $42K in the ford... I'd pay the extra hundred a month for the dct, Benz build quality and 34 extra horses....

The evo has been cancelled. That's how this car is even priced this high. You can get the vw for 39K but that interior SCREAMS QUALITY... I get what you're saying but just like the ecoboost Mustang, it's overpriced... I feel this Ford should top out at 37K. Remember, the competition still has DCT vs this being a manual. That in itself lowers need to have the higher price tag.

Why is this thread continuing?? Ewww for this hocus pocus focus? I would wait for the 3rd gen Mazdaspeed 3.

phew
 

looks like something a hummer farted out.:roflpuke2:

The only thing I have to add as a rebuttal is the following:

1) If you have someone in this market for this car (or the STI or Golf-R) it's so incredibly unlikely that they'll cross-shop the luxury segment at all. These are purpose-built niche vehicles and the Mercs are (gorgeous and well made) entry-level luxury.

2) The Evo being cancelled has much more to do with Mitsubishi being run by morons and less to do with the market. What does Mitsubishi even make that's any good now? A mirage? All aboard the LOLLERCOASTER!

3) The target market for these cars cares very little about anything without three pedals. Pure and simple. Would they sell an automatic/DCT STI? Maybe a few, but the overwhelming majority of prospective buyers is here for these cars because they are the last of the Mohicans when it comes to sports/sporty with a manual transmission. These are the best it gets for under $45k.

I understand what you're saying, but I think the sales numbers with these things are going to speak for themselves.

That being said, I'm a guy who could have made room for his coming baby with an STI and somehow ended up in a Q50S instead. :tup: There are always those strange kinds of buyers that broaden their horizons, but this market is also typically the type that is stubborn and doesn't stray from what they enjoy driving.

That also being said, if I had an extra $42k lying around, overpriced or not, I'd park a 2015/16 Nismo 370 right next to my Q50S. Because fanboy.

Love the honesty of your last sentence :tup: And that 15/16 Nismo is gorgeous :yum:

I love Ricer X's opinions, this is the first time my opinion doesn't really match but still... It always makes sense in its own right and I highly respect your opinions. Always very well thought out. You're right Mitsubishi are morons. They had the perfect eclipses for 89-99 and they effed it all up for the millennium on. Now they don't exist.

The evo. One of the most exciting cars of our generation. And they flushed it down the toilet

It's ok - we won't match on everything, but most things :) Always enjoy the candor.

Now I'd really like to throw a bone into this argument -

In 2003, we saw the debut of the Evo stateside. The WRX STI was finally nearly in the states for a MY2004 debut. The S2000 was here as well as the 350Z and the RX8. As far as "performance oriented" vehicles, that was really it. I'm not including the Neon SRT-4 though because wrong-wheel-drive. All those above are RWD or AWD.

Adjust $42,000 USD for inflation from the year 2003, and you get... $32,356.94. That money in 2003 buys any one of those cars I listed above at some point in their model range. So are these cars really getting more expensive? Are entry level luxury cars getting cheaper? If you look at inflation, cost and availability of materials, etc... it's kind of crazy to see where we are now versus even 10 years ago.

Another thing to look at is - how nice is our range of tuner/performance cars these days? There's SO MUCH to pick from! Only Nissan is playing on the more expensive end of the spectrum.

/threadjack

But can the car market adjust for inflation like food or other commodities when insurance & gas prices have tripled, people pay 3X more rent? Yet the minimum wage has increased by less than $2, pensions and 401K is nearly non existent and the cost for education has doubled. Something in our society has to not adjust to inflation in the same rate as other commodities in our day to day lives. There's a serious imbalance in our economic system. I say, if cars are going up that high, then insurance shouldn't pass $100 a month and gas should still be $1.49 a gallon. Or no more sales tax on car purchases. We are highly overtaxed anyway with little to show for it except war reparations. SMH.

As a former STI owner, I can appreciate the turbo hot hatch with AWD aspect. If this car brings the performance expected, I totally think it's worth $37K.

It would never replace my Z, unless I decided to cut back to 1 vehicle, but that's a whole different story.

I'm a huge fan of the Z (I've owned a half-dozen over the years) but not every car can be a 2-door 2-seat sports coupe. No need to **** on everything because it's "not as cool as a Z".

Seriously with a few notable exceptions, this forum seems more like fanboys than car guys lately. :facepalm:

It's not "lately". It's always been that way. :rolleyes: It has gotten a lot worse now that these cars have gotten really cheap. Forums go to hell on the third owners of a car. Once you can pick up a car for <$15k, it really brings the idiots out of the woodwork.

im with you guys
Love my Z but as a DD i prefer a 4dr fun car , im actually in the process of getting a EVO, STI or Golf R
I can use it as a track car and DD , i cant use the Z as i put way too much money into it and is now a trailer queen :rofl2:

I want the A45AMG. It's the holy grail of hot hatches...

I wouldn't care if it had a GT 500 engine in it, I still wouldn't want it.................Dude it's a Ford Focus.

:iagree:

Reality check: You drive a Nissan. :ugh2:

Would rather be driving a Nissan than a hocus pocus pos focus ford F=frequently O=on R=repair D=duty or doody :inoutroflpuke:

We're all super happy for you. :ugh2:

That's some old school thinking there.

Badge snobbery is dumb.

So are you saying there is no difference between manufacturers and brands in terms of quality and reliability?

There are definitely differences, but to think Nissan is above and beyond Ford (especially today's Ford) is a bit of a stretch. The whole Found On Road Dead thing is definitely an old school train of thought and makes people sound like they're just trying to justify the purchase of their brand to themselves.

Please for the love of God end this pathetic thread.

Don't be mad american cars are leaving Nissan performance in the dust ; also the gtr is not affordable and the z is a joke with its highest Nismo model sitting at dealers barely being sold while the ford gt 350 / r and focus Rs are sold out for pre orders ..

The GT-R was never meant to be "affordable" just like the upcoming Ford GT won't be.

The current Mustang is how many years newer than the current Z? The Focus RS is technically not even out yet.

I understand your sentiment of Nissan not currently offering comparable performance options to Ford's lineup that is less than a year old, but let's be realistic - these things don't happen overnight, either.

When Nissan incrementally improved the 370Z over the 350Z, it decimated... for one model year. The competition has been responding very effectively ever since. Don't you think this time around it might be wise for Nissan to sit back and let their competition blow their wads first? The market is in a crazy place of fluctuation as there is a completely different demographic for a Z type car now than there was in 2009.

Furthermore, while I think the Focus RS is awesome, when has Nissan EVER competed in the hot hatch segment for the American market? Hard to lose a game when you're not playing. Would I like to see a Nismo Pulsar here? Absolutely! But imagine if that concept two years ago showed up with a 220hp turbo from a Juke RS... it would get stomped and sit on the lots.

On the subject of badge snobbery and such, I'll leave you with an elaboration of a point I made earlier...

It's a great time to be a performance car guy. The 370Z is still a damn good car for the money (if we're talking sport package only, which is really what performance guys should be concerned with), but there's just a lot of other options out there. However, the Nissan badge snobbery is really only effective if you're into crossovers, because no one has the crossover game handled quite like Nissan.

All this speculation and all the platforms out that are ROUGHLY comparable I dont see a new Z being...how do I phrase it? Maybe "exponentially evolved". I.E., 400+ HP, lightweight, unreal suspension, mega tech. Not for a "at most" $35K sports car. Maybe theyll go retro, not with styling but, like the 86's, small, IDX style but hopefully VERY light, 2900 pounds, 300BHP, 300Tq. Throw the 2.0 turbo in, hands free everything, mobile phone apps, all the gadgetry my $32K Genesis has plus more. If they make it "bigger, badder, more powerful" to keep up with Detroit, youre basically looking at a Vette. There are NO 400hp+ 2 seat coupes on the market for $40K...and I dont think there will be for obvious reasons.

I think Nissan has to decide whether they want to compete with the Mustang/Camarao/Challenger or the FRS/BRZ/Miata. I'd prefer it be the former and put out a revised 240sx type car to compete with the latter.

My fear is that they will continue to sit in between the two making it quite the niche car for those that just want the Z because it's a Z.

There lies the problem. To really compete youre gonna need big HP. I think itll just cost more than Nissan is willing to commit to bring 400+HP, to a 2 seat coupe at under $40k. Thats why Detroit use big V8's. Nose heavy sleigh pushers, but cheap, cheap, cheap!! Sure Infiniti will probably boost the Q with a 6. Youre looking at $60K to start for 420hp. Hell take a 1/4 off that, would people pay $45k BASE model for a Z35? If it comes with leather, hands free everything, mobile apps and a kick *** interior, I will. But it wont.

Not mad just hate Ford would never buy on don't care how fast and cheap...its like buying a 42k civic lol die thread die lmfao!

With the exception of Chrysler brands for whatever reason, + Audi and BMW , MOST brands run in a similar reliability range with some models being exceptional and others being average good.

How do other car threads become Nissan comparos? It's one thing to make reference to a Z. It's another to make the Z the focal point of a thread about 5 door hot hatches.

No one has really even tried to make a comment on posted Vids and information on the two cars at hand.

Mercedes A45AMG
Which has amazing performance, the most powerful STOCK production 4 cylinder in the world and is not being sold in America.

Then we have the Ford Focus RS, will be the most powerful hatch in America, will be the most expensive hot hatch in America. $4,000 cheaper than a base Mercedes A45.

Comparable cars for comparison could be Mazda & Subaru.

The Z really has nothing to do with this segment. The reality is, most intelligent, performance oriented Z owners would look at hot hatches as a companion car. Not as :ugh2:competition