I'm pretty sure the 86 does not out perform the Z in handling or braking.

Scion FR-S Reviews - Scion FR-S Price, Photos, and Specs - Car and Driver

Nissan Z Reviews - Nissan Z Price, Photos, and Specs - Car and Driver

Losing traction controllably -- maybe.

I have lost count of the various examples of Z's and Twins I have driven, at the limit, at various venues. I am speaking (writing? ) from experience. The Twins' balance is more neutral than the Z's, and they transition their weight better.

Now, the Twins do come with what people at the track refer to as "Prius tires". (The same low- rolling -resistance tires used on the Prius) I think the tire choice was made to mask the car's low HP....They break away very easily compared to the tires found on most sports cars. The stock tires make for some rather underwhelming grip-related numbers in the car mags, but the balance is still there.

It looks like the base model Z comes with prius tires now too with a grip of only 0.90g. I seem to remember 0.96 or 0.98 being touted when I bought mine.

I'm speaking strictly in terms of performance metrics.

The "controllability" attribute I mentioned could be thought of as equivalent to "balance"; it's easier to get the twins to do what you want and easier to correct if it doesn't.

On the other hand, compare and contrast the twins with sticky tires to itself without and to two other small cars that are equally good or better in terms of balance (one being much more pricey, tho') on performance.

2013 Scion FR-S Performance Testing With Tire Swap - The Right Tires Make the FR

Mazda MX-5 Miata Reviews - Mazda MX-5 Miata Price, Photos, and Specs - Car and Driver

2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Coupe Test – Review – Car and Driver

Actually the factory-installed understeer that the Z has makes it easier to correct once a mistake is made. (This is with the nannies turned off on both cars of course)

But yes, the balance I refer to is the car's "bias" in response to inputs. The Z is more inclined to understeer than the Twins are.

Also, I have never driven a Z with tires as low-grip as the ones that come on the Twins. Now that I think about it, I can't think of any sports car I have driven with stock tires that slippery off the top of my head.

If I use the same tire on both cars, in each car's stock sizes, the Twins will hold more speed through transitions. Heck, it's not a stock vs stock comparison, but I have data showing my CS FRS holding more speed through turns than my STU 350Z. Thats 225 tires on the FRS and 275 tires on the 350Z with custom coilovers, and ideal alignment. Now, the STU Z completed the run in less time than the FRS, but it did so by digging out of tight corners quicker than the FRS....It was slower through the turns.

By any chance can you output data graphically that shows where one car is faster or slower on a given turn on the track you use?

That would be really interesting and informative for purposes of comparing and contrasting.

Something similar to this?

http://www.the370z.com/members/jordo...s-original.jpg

Every time I get a notification for this thread I'm hoping it has to do with an actual Z35 update, but nope..just everything other than the subject lol

I have a feeling that the z35 will only be automatic. I hope I am wrong.

I sincerely hope not. Even if it has a manual it will most likely be unchanged version of the current 6 speed transmission.

Say it's driving dynamics are better. Not outperforms. The Z is atmospheres faster than the twins on most tracks. Some tracks we may only be a lot faster. But most we're destroying the twins.

PERFORMANCE has to do with winning.
DYNAMICS has to do with what you're talking about.

Well I've finally made the final decision of upgrading to the 2018 Nismo when it drops. I'm not waiting for the Z35. If 2018, doesn't add a color or something to attract another year of sales... I will get a used 2016 or 2017. I'm praying they add a new color to the Nismo palette. Either. Gun metallic? Bring back that 40th color or magma red. When it comes to Nismo Z colors? Nissan gets it half wrong. There's an inner laziness with Nissan and the Z I can't stand. That's the real reason why they do not sell. They're so slow to do the simple things and never do the amazing things.

Anywho.... I found a 2016 Nismo with under 3,000 miles at an amazing price... I'm only interested in silver or black. So I'm going to post this amazing deal for anyone looking.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...rts&emc=alerts

Indeed...



In the interest of not further derailing the thread:
Z Vs FRS by Mike L | Photobucket
All but one of the samples display lowest speed for a given turn, the other is just a visual line-up of the same corner. The manual-overlay method is not frame-by-frame precise. (30fps GoPro vs 10hZ GPS, but all GPS data correctly correlates to their respective turns and minimum speed is still minimum speed for a turn)


I have a thread in the "other vehicles" section if you wish to do more bench racing:
http://www.the370z.com/other-vehicle...calpels-3.html

I don't know that "destroy" is applicable once both cars are on the same tires, but the 370Z is classed one class higher than the FRS for SCCA solo and the 350Z is in the same class as the Twins.

The mixture of power and handling that the Z has does seem to be faster in most situations. That's a valid argument. Handling is only a single part of the "winning" equation. The Twins generally give up more to the Z in acceleration, than the Z gives up in handling.

I have my eyes set on silver. I feel like they're MUCH harder to find though.
Curious to know why you're set on 18 YM and not just get a 16/17 right now..it's not like they're any different. Also, why aren't you waiting for z35?

I'm trying to wait for at least a z35 update before pulling the trigger, but it just keeps getting harder as each day goes by. I have a feeling the z35 won't be what I'm expecting and will confirm the purchase of a z34 for me.