Water in spoiler?

ksagis

Has anybody noticed if they get water in the spoiler or perhaps under the spoiler and truck lid? (I've got the same spoiler that a lot of us purchased from Spoiler Solutions)

I put silicone on the spoiler (around the holes) where it was screwed to trunk, and also around the head of the screw before screwing them into the spoiler from the inside of the truck. This was all in addition to the foam gasket around the edge of the spoiler.

My best guess is that it's water inside the spoiler, not water trapped between spoiler and truck lid from the sounds that I'm hearing. If I open the truck slowly, I don't hear anything. I need to have it closed, and open it very fast and then I can hear a "sloshing" sound. I also seem to be able to hear it better if the trunk has been down for a while and the water has had a bit of time to drain down.

I haven't ever noticed this before, but it rained a lot here in LA last weekend. It's been a few days since then and dry here since then, and I am still hearing it.

Seems to me that it will slowly evaporate out but it has been 4 days since the rain. Seems that if it got inside, it will slowly find it's way back out again.....

Anybody have any thoughts?

Bummer

I put a heavy bead of silicone all around the inside of the foam gasket, as well as around the screw holes and on the "washer" side of the screw. I've had no such problems to date, of which I'm aware.

There are a couple of holes not used for attachment, so I suppose water could make its way into the spoiler, though I have to wonder how deep the water got.

The only (possible) solution I can think of is to remove the screws, then remove the spoiler (use fishing line to cut the silicone between the spoiler and the trunk as needed), clean up the old silicone, then put it back with silicone all around the inside of the foam gasket.

Good luck.

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Steve

Zrider79

i agree with last post, i had same issue and took it back to shop that installed for me and they reinstalled with new silicone, no problems for 4 months so far.

__________________
2010 Monterey blue roadster Z Touring. Blk interior.
g3,fast intentions exhaust,more to come.
RIP 05 Silverstone 350z roadster mild N/A build.

ksagis

Has anybody considered drilling a couple of small drain holes in the bottom of the spoiler (but outside the gasket line) such that if water gets in, it can drain out? It seems to me providing a mechanism to drain is better than trying to prevent it since the silicone might break down at some point.

As Bummer points out, there are a couple of hole that remain in the bottom (I called Spoiler Solutions about them and then said to leave them open). So the possibility remains that if water gets in between the spoiler and trunk lid that it could wick into the spoiler by capillary action or through holes.

@Bummer: when you ran bead of silicone around foam, did you go all the way around the inside of the foam or leave any small gap for drainage?

@Zrider79: it sounds like you did notice the water in spoiler like me, is that correct? Do you know how they got the water out before reinstalling it? I suspect they might have drilled a small hole to get it out.

Zrider79

I would assume once installed they drained it somehow, Im not sure specifically.

__________________
2010 Monterey blue roadster Z Touring. Blk interior.
g3,fast intentions exhaust,more to come.
RIP 05 Silverstone 350z roadster mild N/A build.

Bummer

I'm planning on doing what I can to keep water from getting in. Holes seem counterproductive. As always, YMMV.

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Steve

Bummer

No gap. Anything that will allow drainage will let water in too. I didn't use so much that it would ooze out when the spoiler got put on, but enough to do a good job of sealing inside the foam.

__________________
Steve

ksagis

Update:

It was definitely water inside the spoiler, I pulled it off and confirmed.

Here are a couple of pictures, the holes marked in red are where I put bolts through. The holes marked in yellow are holes in the spoiler that I assume were part of manufacturing process and left. As I said in previous post, I called Spoiler Solutions (since I didn't like the holes) and they said to leave the remaining holes open so the spoiler could breathe (which I assume was associated with pressure buildup, etc when temperature changes).

You can see in the picture of the truck that I got good coverage around the bolt holes (shown in red).

I did some quick math, based on temperature variations, I'd guess that one could build up 5 psi of pressure inside the spoiler with doesn't seem inconsequential.

Here's my dilemma, Bummer had gone all the way around the gasket with silicone which would just slightly increase the volume that was sealed (spoiler and the trapped area between truck and spoiler). He also sealed bolts and "washer" area which in theory resulted in a closed system. He has reported good results which points towards a good approach, but the pressure buildup potential nags at me, particularly considering what the manufacturer told me.

At this point, I'm tending to think that I'm going to take the following approach:

1) silicone closed the three remaining holes in the spoiler (to close them and limit water intrusion),
2) Run a bead around the inside of the gasket like Bummer did
3) I'll also run a bead around the holes like Bummer did
4) I'll probably NOT silicone the "washer" area on the screws on the inside of the trunk. In theory, is there is a pressure buildup inside spoiler it could escape over the threaded area on the screws and vent into the trunk area. Of course, if I get water into the spoiler, the water could wick down into the truck area.

Maybe folks don't care about this level of detail, but I totally hate reworking something I put on and would rather get it right the first time. So, I'm posting this so others can take advantage of any lessons to be learned.

Edit: I fixed the picture of the spoiler, I had one hole marked as yellow that should have been red. I had six screws total installed.

Attached Images

	trunk silicone.JPG (85.3 KB, 60 views)
	spoiler.JPG (156.2 KB, 60 views)

Bummer

I would not be overly concerned with pressure buildup inside the spoiler. It isn't going to be enough to cause it problems. The extra holes are probably there for manufacturing concerns.

If you are worried about it, you can run a bead around most of the spoiler and leave a few selective gaps, and don't seal the extra holes. I would think low spots where any water that does get in can get back out. Perhaps leave the points on the bottom open, while sealing the upper arcs? Of course, you would have to leave a long enough area that the silicone won't bridge the gap. That would allow for expansion as well as the exit of water, without giving water an easy path in, even when the trunk is open.

I've had mine on since late August. Not a lot of time to see potential problems, but I really don't expect anything.

__________________
Steve

ksagis

Called Spoiler Solutions and left a voicemail, have not heard back yet.

I think I have a new plan:

I am going to silicone around the mounting holes and on the "washer" area of the screws. Per Bummer's excellent comment that doing everything to keep water out being a good thing, I'm going to silicone around the inside of the gasket (without any gaps). I'm also going to silicone closed the extra holes in the bottom of the spoiler.

This approach should preclude any water getting into the volume between the trunk and spoiler, and if it does, it can't get into spoiler via the manufacturing / vent holes since I sealed them.

However this would leave no exit for internal pressure to be relieved (which Spoiler Solution said were needed) To address that, I drilled a hole through the center of two of the screws which will allow internal pressure from spoiler to relieve into the trunk area. The tip of the screw is roughly 5/8 inch above the trunk metal (and at the highest area of the spoiler) so there would have to be a lot of water intrusion into the gap between the truck and spoiler before the water could get into the trunk. (It also looks like to me that this would drain outside the trunk gasket anyway, so I'm telling myself I don't care about this failure mode)

From my poking around the internet, there was somewhat inconclusive data on whether spoilers need vent holes, I'm tending towards thinking spoilers should have vent holes based on my calculations that showed that temperature induced pressure buildup can cause over 5 psi of pressure (100 psi of stress). Depending on manufacturing quality, 100 psi of stress for a laminate shouldn't be too much if they have fiber throughout, but who knows how consistent the matrix is.

I'll post again if I get any additional useful information from Spoiler Solutions beyond what they told me the from my first call when they said the vent holes were needed.

Like I said, these might be more details than some folks want, but I totally hate reworking things, and the only thing I hate more than rework, is causing detrimental things like rust.

Attached Images

drilled.JPG (135.7 KB, 19 views)

ksagis

Update: I pulled my spoiler and remounted it. I used two drilled screws as mentioned above, cut four small sections out of the gasket at the low points of the gasket to allow venting (and draining) of volume between the trunk lid and spoiler of any water that might migrate into the volume, closed the manufacturing holes in the spoiler with silicone, applied silicone around the front part of spoiler and sides, and also applied silicone around the mounting holes.

This will preclude any trapped volumes and associated pressure induced loads, vent the inside of spoiler, not allow water to get into the spoiler, try and preclude water from getting under the spoiler with the silicone in critical areas, allow water to drain if it gets under the spoiler, and also allow venting of the volume between the trunk and spoiler.

I calculated about 40 lbs of temperature induced force per bolt, with four mounting bolts, which made me want to vent all trapped volumes. The fiberglass is pretty thin where the screws go in and I didn't want to create non shear loads in the fiberglass.

Thanks to Bummer for Pm'ing me during the process of me deciding what I wanted to do on the rework.

FWIW, YMMV.

RoadsterST

I drilled all 10 mounting locations in mine and stepped up to the next size mounting bolt as well as a silicone seal around each bolt hole.

Sent while driving!

ksagis

Update:

I noticed that it looks like the factory spoiler on the coupe has gaps in the gaskets at the bottom of the points. Take a look at:

DIY: Sport Spoiler Removal

I think the approach I outlined in my last post above is the best IMHO, just sayin.

Limeybastard

What gaps, only gap I see in mine is the driver side aint down as good as the other side. As if the tape holding it down has lifted by about 1 mil.

Can only see it from the front to back area on mine, EG closest to the back window.

Jwaite90

I've got a 2010 roadster with the same aftermarket spoiler, it spills water after a washing as well, down the left and right side. I've siliconed it properly, still drips. The water streaks irritate me.. I've learned to just deal with it, dry the spots after a few drives, and move on.