2011 ZCON Images Savannah, GA

Z1804 · 07-29-2011, 12:16 AM

There was no dirt on Kevin's car. Any real judge would have looked at that car and given it 1st place. Even before I entered the show I told Kevin he had 1st place in the bag. The nismo was stock. It should not have been in the Street Modified category.

Most of the people there liked Kevin's car so much that they voted him for people's choice, even though he did not sign up for that show.

I agree with you Kevin, what's done is done. However, I think ZCON has lost the 370Z crowd. We were not welcomed at that show.

zinistr · 07-29-2011, 05:19 AM

I hear ya, Kevin... In winter of '01 I prepped my '91 for San Antonio...full body tear-down and paint with new urethane body kit elements...($7000 all-in)...base coat, pearl coat, metallic 2nd pearl and 3 layers of clear coat...then $2200 in wheels with Pirello P-Zero rubber...new KYB/Eibachs, Stillen Sways, Kenwood KVT DVD/TV system...on-board integrated PC with keyboard mounted in glove-box, track-pad mouse integrated into center console where ashtray was...80 hours of engine-bay detailing...new tail lights, new exhaust, new Katzkin leather upholstery to the tune of $900... After all this drove to San Antonio, TX and lost out on 1st place by one point to a local Z owner that had (kid-you-not) eight people detailing his car prior to judging and likely only drove 2-4 hours to get there...versus my 22 hours. After getting judging sheets, I had lost two points on rock-chips I picked up on the drive down.

Next round (for NH convention in '03), I did what I hated (and I mean hated) to do...I ended up trailering the car. Before leaving, though, I had the chips fixed, spent two full weeks of time detailing and prepping the car. I also had several Z club friends "judge" my car to ascertain any flaws that I could address (and did so best I could)...low and behold, it helped...my score improved and ended up winning the Gold Cup. BTW - cars need to be 10 years old to be eligible for the Gold awards.

As to conflict of interest, there's always an angle for folks to complain about conflicts...even though they aren't justified. Let's say I keep my cars out of the show...but the winner's in my local Z club...conflict? How about if I'm friends personally with any of the winners...conflict? How about if one of the other ZCCA committee cars happens to place...conflict? This conspiracy B.S. is just that...B.S. There isn't any "let's give the trophy to this guy because he's a buddy" crap going on. I ran the '08 convention and was VP during the event for the ZCCA. My '94 convertible took 3rd in class (with three cars in the category)... In '10 I again chaired a convention...my Nismo was there, along with the same '94 and my GC '91. The '91 *could* have won a Gold Cup "Choice" award...it didn't (I barely had time to spray-wash the car, let alone detail it). The '94 came in 2nd (improvements from '08...better detailing, wheels, interior work, undercarriage cleaning, etc...). My '09 Nismo didn't take a first-place.

The theory that I or anyone on the judging team is conspiring to pick winners isn't supported.

There are three classes of "Modified" to help folks rank themselves against cars with similiar levels of modification. Street-Modified (<15-mods)...to Ultra-Modified (25+ mods). My Nismo (though stock looking) has the following "mods"...clear bra, oil cooler, intake, nismo shifter, braided brake lines, Sony DVD/Bluetooth Head-Unit, aftermarket oil cap, Nismo shift knob, short-shifter kit, Nismo tire valve caps, license plate cover, stainless engine bolts... Although not highly visible or obvious...each of these counts as a "modification" per the rules and pushes the car out of Stock class. Within "Stock" class, you're permitted up to 3 mods to stay in the class...even though you're still docked the up to 3 mods allowed. This whole thread is leading me to believe that your Z would have been better suited for either Nissan or Ultra modified class. I'd be happy to help you determine proper class for your Z...it's a simple question of counting visible modifications. This is the same approach of judging that many concourse shows follow...the ZCCA rules actually morphed out of other long-standing concourse judging criteria (think of any big concourse event...i.e. Pebble Beach, Huntington Beach, Amelia or the more local Glenmoor Gathering).

Agree on the cost...a six-day event like the convention can be pricey in of itself...my hotel bill was over $1,000 for the week and my registration fees were around $550 (wife, kids and I in attendance and registered). That doesn't include travel to/from the event or all the food/beer/etc. I paid these costs out of my own pocket like other attendees.

nuTinmuch · 07-29-2011, 02:02 PM

So that's the secret?

brb, ordering aftermarket oil cap so i can win car shows

SP!KE · 07-29-2011, 02:44 PM

Yeah Kev you shooda won boss.....maybe you can take some pics of my car at Z Nationals in September bro

Your Z is S!K

sboden · 07-29-2011, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zinistr

There are three classes of "Modified" to help folks rank themselves against cars with similiar levels of modification. Street-Modified (<15-mods)...to Ultra-Modified (25+ mods). My Nismo (though stock looking) has the following "mods"...clear bra, oil cooler, intake, nismo shifter, braided brake lines, Sony DVD/Bluetooth Head-Unit, aftermarket oil cap, Nismo shift knob, short-shifter kit, Nismo tire valve caps, license plate cover, stainless engine bolts... Although not highly visible or obvious...each of these counts as a "modification" per the rules and pushes the car out of Stock class. Within "Stock" class, you're permitted up to 3 mods to stay in the class...even though you're still docked the up to 3 mods allowed. This whole thread is leading me to believe that your Z would have been better suited for either Nissan or Ultra modified class. I'd be happy to help you determine proper class for your Z...it's a simple question of counting visible modifications. This is the same approach of judging that many concourse shows follow...the ZCCA rules actually morphed out of other long-standing concourse judging criteria (think of any big concourse event...i.e. Pebble Beach, Huntington Beach, Amelia or the more local Glenmoor Gathering).

Sorry, those "mods" do not beat out the OP's car. They just don't but I base that on the pictures here on the forum only.

kevr6 · 07-29-2011, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zinistr

IThere are three classes of "Modified" to help folks rank themselves against cars with similiar levels of modification. Street-Modified (<15-mods)...to Ultra-Modified (25+ mods). My Nismo (though stock looking) has the following "mods"...clear bra, oil cooler, intake, nismo shifter, braided brake lines, Sony DVD/Bluetooth Head-Unit, aftermarket oil cap, Nismo shift knob, short-shifter kit, Nismo tire valve caps, license plate cover, stainless engine bolts... Although not highly visible or obvious...each of these counts as a "modification" per the rules and pushes the car out of Stock class. Within "Stock" class, you're permitted up to 3 mods to stay in the class...even though you're still docked the up to 3 mods allowed. This whole thread is leading me to believe that your Z would have been better suited for either Nissan or Ultra modified class. I'd be happy to help you determine proper class for your Z...it's a simple question of counting visible modifications. This is the same approach of judging that many concourse shows follow...the ZCCA rules actually morphed out of other long-standing concourse judging criteria (think of any big concourse event...i.e. Pebble Beach, Huntington Beach, Amelia or the more local Glenmoor Gathering).
.

I guess we just have different interpretations on the word "Modified". To me all that you listed as mods I would have not listed on my mod sheet. I actually have all of that installed also but don't list them.
Bottom line you absolutely have to admit that the whole thing seemed funny. My wife, friends, alot of ZCON folks all came up to me and made a comment.

I'm not a trouble maker and do not think my car is the best thing out there. But if you add each thing up it makes you wonder. That's the point of my thread and that is all. I didn't even get that upset at the Banquet. This is not to bash or tell folks to not attend ZCON. You have politition style which is fine. But how can you not look at the step by step with the events and not see why it would raise questions???

Waterfest is the biggest VW/Audi car show in North America. Two days and over 21,000 spectators. Huge in comparison. I judged for 4 years straight and it was hard long days of work due to the car count! I focused on MK3 chassis since I had that vehicle at the time and new it so well. I refused to show my car those years because I felt that it wasn't apropriate. I also dealt with mods and cleaniness and presentaion seperately.
So my point was that it didn't feel like our cars had that style of judging when talking to the judges face to face.

Note to all! This thread is just my experience and I do not encourage folks to not attend ZCON based on my experience! There are some great people there and great Z stories.

Also: anybody who have pics please post since I am so bad at taking photos during these events.

daisuke149 · 07-29-2011, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sboden

Sorry, those "mods" do not beat out the OP's car. They just don't but I base that on the pictures here on the forum only.

thats the point man. Ive seen cars that are just modified, done horribly, done well etc. And then theres Kevin car. Everything blends well and works together and somehow, the guys magic with the fact that he keeps it clean. I mean clean clean cleannnnn.

There are no flaws in the fitment, style, etc on his car.

snappy · 08-12-2011, 03:16 PM

This was the only 370 (Kevin's) that really caught my eye at the show. Nice clean job but I would have painted the strut tower brace gold to match wheels. I never even noticed the 1st place winner in the crowd. I feel Chris Karl could have exhibited his car but should not have entered judged competition due to his position w/ ZCCA as well as role in the ZCON meet. Just not a good idea all round. Let him lay everything out on track already since best time is not a popularity contest.
My 1st Z show & I thoroughly enjoyed it. Many of the 1st gens were amazing!

daisuke149 · 08-12-2011, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snappy

This was the only 370 (Kevin's) that really caught my eye at the show. Nice clean job but I would have painted the strut tower brace gold to match wheels. I never even noticed the 1st place winner in the crowd. I feel Chris Karl could have exhibited his car but should not have entered judged competition due to his position w/ ZCCA as well as role in the ZCON meet. Just not a good idea all round. Let him lay everything out on track already since best time is not a popularity contest.
My 1st Z show & I thoroughly enjoyed it. Many of the 1st gens were amazing!

that photo (if you took it) is awesome. You should send that to kevin if you have the high res i'm sure he'd love it.

snappy · 08-12-2011, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daisuke149

that photo (if you took it) is awesome. You should send that to kevin if you have the high res i'm sure he'd love it.

Yes, I took it. A little Photoshop editing. Fine machine he has created w/ serious low-key tasteful yet striking touches that stood out. I may not be a ZCCA seasoned judge but I know what my gut tells me after all is considered. Kevin won this.

kevr6 · 08-12-2011, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snappy

Yes, I took it. A little Photoshop editing. Fine machine he has created w/ serious low-key tasteful yet striking touches that stood out. I may not be a ZCCA seasoned judge but I know what my gut tells me after all is considered. Kevin won this.

Dude, I appreciate the perspective!! I've started to have a little complex about my car and the whole bad taste left from the Cleveland folks! Nice to hear the positivity. Realization that I'm not really welcome in their house!!
BTW, I did think about doing that but wanted a separate scheme in the engine bay!!

It will be different by next year anyway!!

Thanks to the rest of you guys also!!

PapoZalsa · 08-12-2011, 09:07 PM

Sorry, but trailing a car to a Car Show in an unfair advantage.

There should be a category for Trailer Queens by itself, my $.02.

kevr6 · 08-12-2011, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PapoZalsa

Sorry, but trailing a car to a Car Show in an unfair advantage.

There should be a category for Trailer Queens by itself, my $.02.

Who trailered their car???

Z1804 · 08-13-2011, 12:14 AM

I tried to refrain from saying anything about ZCON, but it's extremely challenging not to after the experience.

That nismo did not look like a trailer queen to me. It was JUST a nismo and it one because of it's owner. I'm not as seasoned as Kevin when it comes to these car shows, so I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the experience. The two cars were not even in the same league. That's what made it worse.

Let's see how long it takes for them to send people their awards this year.

kevr6 · 08-13-2011, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z1804

I tried to refrain from saying anything about ZCON, but it's extremely challenging not to after the experience.

That nismo did not look like a trailer queen to me. It was JUST a nismo and it one because of it's owner. I'm not as seasoned as Kevin when it comes to these car shows, so I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the experience. The two cars were not even in the same league. That's what made it worse.

Let's see how long it takes for them to send people their awards this year.

I thought we'd have it by now.

07-29-2011, 12:16 AM	#31 (permalink)
Z1804 Premium Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: GA Posts: 784 Drives: 2009 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 15	There was no dirt on Kevin's car. Any real judge would have looked at that car and given it 1st place. Even before I entered the show I told Kevin he had 1st place in the bag. The nismo was stock. It should not have been in the Street Modified category. Most of the people there liked Kevin's car so much that they voted him for people's choice, even though he did not sign up for that show. I agree with you Kevin, what's done is done. However, I think ZCON has lost the 370Z crowd. We were not welcomed at that show. __________________ Z1804 ------ Z1804 ------ Z1804 ------ ------ Z1804 ------ Z1804 ------ Z1804 Fairlady Z 2011 Calendar Now on Sale!!!

07-29-2011, 05:19 AM	#32 (permalink)
zinistr Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Chardon, Ohio Posts: 127 Drives: 2009 Nismo - Silver Rep Power: 15	I hear ya, Kevin... In winter of '01 I prepped my '91 for San Antonio...full body tear-down and paint with new urethane body kit elements...($7000 all-in)...base coat, pearl coat, metallic 2nd pearl and 3 layers of clear coat...then $2200 in wheels with Pirello P-Zero rubber...new KYB/Eibachs, Stillen Sways, Kenwood KVT DVD/TV system...on-board integrated PC with keyboard mounted in glove-box, track-pad mouse integrated into center console where ashtray was...80 hours of engine-bay detailing...new tail lights, new exhaust, new Katzkin leather upholstery to the tune of $900... After all this drove to San Antonio, TX and lost out on 1st place by one point to a local Z owner that had (kid-you-not) eight people detailing his car prior to judging and likely only drove 2-4 hours to get there...versus my 22 hours. After getting judging sheets, I had lost two points on rock-chips I picked up on the drive down. Next round (for NH convention in '03), I did what I hated (and I mean hated) to do...I ended up trailering the car. Before leaving, though, I had the chips fixed, spent two full weeks of time detailing and prepping the car. I also had several Z club friends "judge" my car to ascertain any flaws that I could address (and did so best I could)...low and behold, it helped...my score improved and ended up winning the Gold Cup. BTW - cars need to be 10 years old to be eligible for the Gold awards. As to conflict of interest, there's always an angle for folks to complain about conflicts...even though they aren't justified. Let's say I keep my cars out of the show...but the winner's in my local Z club...conflict? How about if I'm friends personally with any of the winners...conflict? How about if one of the other ZCCA committee cars happens to place...conflict? This conspiracy B.S. is just that...B.S. There isn't any "let's give the trophy to this guy because he's a buddy" crap going on. I ran the '08 convention and was VP during the event for the ZCCA. My '94 convertible took 3rd in class (with three cars in the category)... In '10 I again chaired a convention...my Nismo was there, along with the same '94 and my GC '91. The '91 could have won a Gold Cup "Choice" award...it didn't (I barely had time to spray-wash the car, let alone detail it). The '94 came in 2nd (improvements from '08...better detailing, wheels, interior work, undercarriage cleaning, etc...). My '09 Nismo didn't take a first-place. The theory that I or anyone on the judging team is conspiring to pick winners isn't supported. There are three classes of "Modified" to help folks rank themselves against cars with similiar levels of modification. Street-Modified (<15-mods)...to Ultra-Modified (25+ mods). My Nismo (though stock looking) has the following "mods"...clear bra, oil cooler, intake, nismo shifter, braided brake lines, Sony DVD/Bluetooth Head-Unit, aftermarket oil cap, Nismo shift knob, short-shifter kit, Nismo tire valve caps, license plate cover, stainless engine bolts... Although not highly visible or obvious...each of these counts as a "modification" per the rules and pushes the car out of Stock class. Within "Stock" class, you're permitted up to 3 mods to stay in the class...even though you're still docked the up to 3 mods allowed. This whole thread is leading me to believe that your Z would have been better suited for either Nissan or Ultra modified class. I'd be happy to help you determine proper class for your Z...it's a simple question of counting visible modifications. This is the same approach of judging that many concourse shows follow...the ZCCA rules actually morphed out of other long-standing concourse judging criteria (think of any big concourse event...i.e. Pebble Beach, Huntington Beach, Amelia or the more local Glenmoor Gathering). Agree on the cost...a six-day event like the convention can be pricey in of itself...my hotel bill was over $1,000 for the week and my registration fees were around $550 (wife, kids and I in attendance and registered). That doesn't include travel to/from the event or all the food/beer/etc. I paid these costs out of my own pocket like other attendees. __________________ 1970 Datsun 240z (HLS #201) & '71 240z "Zuns Z" 1991 300zx TT 'ZINISTR' & '93 300zx Vert TT "MASTR" 1994 300zx Vert 'BREEZZY' & 1995 300zx Z32 Coupe 2009 NISMO Edition 370Z, Silver #196

07-29-2011, 02:02 PM	#33 (permalink)
nuTinmuch A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,092 Drives: PG 7AT 370Z Rep Power: 17	So that's the secret? brb, ordering aftermarket oil cap so i can win car shows __________________ nuTinmuch! -- Platinum Graphite 370Z -- Check out my Gallery thread here! Last edited by nuTinmuch; 07-29-2011 at 02:04 PM.

08-12-2011, 09:07 PM	#42 (permalink)
PapoZalsa A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Not in Sunny Florida Posts: 6,358 Drives: 16 Nismo w/Tech Pack Rep Power: 4499	Sorry, but trailing a car to a Car Show in an unfair advantage. There should be a category for Trailer Queens by itself, my $.02. __________________ 2009 370Z MB Base w/Sport Package 6MT Modshack's Custom Air Intakes /3M Clear Bra/ Illuminated Kick Plates / F. I CBE w/12" resonators / EVO-R Front Lip / Rear Hatch Wing / Tein S-Tech Springs /Ilegal Tint in the Rep. of VA/4x20mm Z1 Spacers/ Vinyl Roof/Liquid Carbon Designs

08-13-2011, 12:14 AM	#44 (permalink)
Z1804 Premium Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: GA Posts: 784 Drives: 2009 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 15	I tried to refrain from saying anything about ZCON, but it's extremely challenging not to after the experience. That nismo did not look like a trailer queen to me. It was JUST a nismo and it one because of it's owner. I'm not as seasoned as Kevin when it comes to these car shows, so I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the experience. The two cars were not even in the same league. That's what made it worse. Let's see how long it takes for them to send people their awards this year. __________________ Z1804 ------ Z1804 ------ Z1804 ------ ------ Z1804 ------ Z1804 ------ Z1804 Fairlady Z 2011 Calendar Now on Sale!!!

07-29-2011, 02:44 PM	#34 (permalink)
SP!KE Base Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Check your rearview Posts: 32 Drives: 08 Z33 SMB Rep Power: 14	Yeah Kev you shooda won boss.....maybe you can take some pics of my car at Z Nationals in September bro Your Z is S!K

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