Originally Posted by 6spd (Post 3110700)

Originally Posted by Ardent_Z (Post 3110731)

So does this mean a 450 HP TT Z35? hmmm...

Originally Posted by brucelidat (Post 3111268)

It would need to be a bit better in the NVH dept too.

Originally Posted by Magic Bus (Post 3111394)

Noise Vibration Harshness

Originally Posted by Zipper 104 (Post 3110519)

Can't be anything close to what service for Harleys is. I never came out of a service under $500 until I clued in. Did all my own after that. I've always preferred to do everything myself anyway. If I screw something up I can live with it. When I pay stupid $$$ only to have them screw something up I'm not very pleased about it. If I want stuff messed up I'll do it myself, thanks. I'm paying you to not screw up.
I never let them wash my bikes either. The last straw was when I got a bike back covered in greasy hand prints. I was told that's what you get when you don't let them wash it. Really? A fu^^ing ape wouldn't make that big a mess.
Spent over an hour out in the parking lot getting the bike back to where I wouldn't be embarrassed to be seen on it.
One thing I will say....despite the misconceptions floating around out there, all the Harleys I've had have been absolutely bulletproof. Tremendous build quality and NOTHING turns heads like 'em. My 370 is absolutely invisible by comparison. My last Harley would turn more heads on one ride home from work that ANY and ALL non-Harleys I owned over time, combined. I mean, serious thumbs up ever where you go.

104

Originally Posted by Tadpole (Post 3111443)

There are four things wrong with Harleys.
Too expensive
Too slow
Crap brakes
Handling???? HaHahaha

Other than that they are pretty noise makers.

Originally Posted by Firebase99 (Post 3111423)

I didn't think it was bad, sure it's a little rough but it never bothered me when I had my 370.

Originally Posted by brucelidat (Post 3111542)

It's fine for the 370, but if we're talking about a 45 - 50k M fighter Z, then it should be a bit better since we're in a new price bracket. It needs a bit more polish to go with the extra grunt to sell at that price.

Originally Posted by Kaldaien (Post 3111574)

M fighter, eh? Why do I get the impression that if something were to fight the BMW M, it'd have to be an Infiniti?

I just don't see Nissan adding all those doodads to the Z that allow you to dynamically adjust suspension stiffness, steering, throttle and braking response. That stuff all belongs in a tech bloated vehicle, which is what the Infiniti brand is for.

Originally Posted by brucelidat (Post 3111871)

Being a competitor tot he Cayman will not sell cars. The Cayman is very niche and a lot of Cayman buyers wouldn't get the Z anyway even if it was as good since the Porsche badge is part of what they want as well. If they want to actually sell cars it needs to have more power, enough to hang with a m4 or mustang GT. It doesn't need to beta them, just be in their ballpark for hp and acceleration. That's what most buyers are looking at and why, even though the Mustang GT and Z are different cars, they are still cross shopped. Add in great looks and handling and it they'll have a winner.

Originally Posted by Firebase99 (Post 3111729)

For the NVH like the gent suggested at this price point I agree now that you mention it. And I don't think it necessarily needs to be as good as the M E92 M3/4. It just needs to hold its own, like the z33 did with the E46 M3 back in 03.

Originally Posted by Magic Bus (Post 3111936)

Yes agreed, drive a Z and M235i back to back and you'll notice the huge NVH difference, so that could be improved. However that's part of the blue collar personality and fun of driving the Z. Also one area where the Z shines vs M is steering feel and let's hope Nissan doesn't lose this on the new one.

Originally Posted by brucelidat (Post 3111979)

It needs to fight the m4, not the e92 m3. Nissan better not mess up the steering though. I heard the m4 steering is pretty bad.

Originally Posted by brucelidat (Post 3113464)

The z is supposed to be more performance oriented and less luxury than the q60 so if the q60 is a M fighter, the Z should be also. I AM NOT talking about fighting the M in lux, but performance. Being a poor man's Cayman S got NIssan horrible sales. Most poeple shopping for Cayman S's aren't looking at Nissans. Guys looking at Mustang GTs and maybe Vettes might look at a Z so it should be in line with them in terms of performance (which puts it in line with the m4 as well).

Originally Posted by Firebase99 (Post 3113692)

I think it needs to put doubt in the C7, M4, and Cayman S. Forget the GT4. The Z33 re-ignited this all and ran with the E46 M, and was toe to with the Boxster S. Lost a bit of ground with the Cayman S (and the Z34 still does thanks to P cars upgrades where as Nissan left the Z the same). It needs to come CLOSE to these guys. Not in lux, very close in tech AND performance to have a C7 buyer curious about saving $30k.

Originally Posted by njobe89 (Post 3114155)

i'm sorry but i wouldn't pay 50k for a 370. i don't think it will sell at that price. they have to keep the cost down to 30-40k for it to sell.

Originally Posted by Firebase99 (Post 3114302)

Id be willing to go close to if not $50K for a coupe with...3400 pounds (loaded), NAV, leather, hands free everything, Onstar-Bluelink equivalent (I can start my Genesis with my iphone-fricking awesome) sunroof a must but targa ideal, 7 speed manual or a true DCT, 370WHP 350TQ and the fact its NOT American Muscle. And you wont find a German anywhere NEAR that in price. So yea, id pay $50K.

Originally Posted by njobe89 (Post 3114330)

for 50k i'd rather get a used gtr.

Originally Posted by njobe89 (Post 3114330)

for 50k i'd rather get a used gtr.

Originally Posted by Firebase99 (Post 3114363)

i wouldnt touch a used GTR unless I had boatloads of money in which case I wouldnt touch a used GTR...lol

Originally Posted by Firebase99 (Post 3114363)

i wouldnt touch a used GTR unless I had boatloads of money in which case I wouldnt touch a used GTR...lol

Originally Posted by FPenvy (Post 3114392)

:iagree:


used GT-R's in that 50k price range you spoke of i wouldn't touch.

brand new 400+ HP Z for 50k or 2009 GT-R with 30k miles for 50k.......now you're into expense maintenance part of owning the GT-R and wear and tear. plus not knowing how the previous owner treated it is always a factor.

it's like when you start dating a new chick. she could have been gang banged by a whole pro sports team and you could never know.....until you pay for it later :stirthepot:

Originally Posted by njobe89 (Post 3114421)

if you had boatloads of money you wouldn't be driving a genesis either :eek:


you can get a brand new car and it can break down. is it better to buy new, of course it is. you're the first person to drive it and everything. however, at 50k the variety of cars available that you can buy expands a lot. i'm just saying that the Z doesn't look interesting enough for the amount of other cars you can buy at 50k

Originally Posted by Firebase99 (Post 3114425)

Like what? an M235? What else? Stang? Camaro? Challenger? What can you buy for $50K or less thats a coupe, with 400+ HP and all the good tech?

Originally Posted by njobe89 (Post 3114431)

Coupes for Sale in Loganville, GA 30052: cars under 50000 - AutoTrader.com

like i said it offers a wide variety of vehicles for 50k.

if i'm spending 50k, i'll get a vette. that's just me though

Originally Posted by Tadpole (Post 3114463)

Thats the problem.....vettes start out in the low 50's...more like mid 50's brand new.

Originally Posted by brucelidat (Post 3114473)

Decently optioned, you're probably pushing 60k for the Vette. I don't think Njobe is talking about new vs new though. I think he's just referrign to all car options in general including used for 50k which is a whole lot.