New Z an improvement? What do you think?

Tick64 · 08-11-2013, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edk370

I'm gonna digress a little, but you'll see what I'm talking about.

Toyota no longer offers a "mid range" sports car like the Supra tt MKIV. That was initially a $35,000+ car when it debuted in '93, and ended up being close to $50,000 MSRP at the end of its run, back in '98/'99 if I'm correct. Toyota saw sales dramatically slip because the yen was too strong relative to the U.S. dollar. Fast forward to now, and you saw how Toyota will only offer ultra-expensive sports cars like the Lexus LFA; well that ended recently and those cars were only available for lease...to people who got chedda. Toyota did this imo because they wanted to get out of the boy-racer/import scene image and instead wanted to be on par in image/prestige with the likes of Ferrari, Lambo, etc...Supra MKIVs get riced out, and so do FD3S's, Z32s, and so forth. Japanese car companies want to shed the import scene/boy-racer image imho. They want to be perceived like high end Euro cars.

I think Nissan will either eliminate the Z a la the Supra, or offer a cheap entry level sports car (and name it other than "Z") a la the BR-Z or Scion to appease the teenage/early 20s mileu, and leave only its marquee sports car i.e. the GT-R because Nissan too wants to leave the boy-racer/import scene image. Besides, the import scene is passé and gaudy now.

Whatever Nissan does, more power to them. The import scene had its 15 minutes and its time to leave it where it belongs--in the past.

Interesting point of view. I suppose it's possible that the Z line could end, but I hope it doesn't. There has been a little bit of media coverage foreshadowing a new revamped Z model (eg. Jay Leno at Nissan headquarters etc) that keeps my hope alive. Could be an opportunity for Nissan to have a small niche market in the current price range (or slight deviation from the current price range).

andre12031948 · 08-11-2013, 04:39 PM

At the end of 08 Nissan gave a 5k rebate for the 08's. The 09's were out & that rebate + $2k profit made the dealers offer $7k-$8k discounts. Some people got great cars (08's) at a fantastic price.

If the new Z gets smaller with a 4cyl., I'd love to see that discount on the 2014's. My new car???

Bret_T · 08-11-2013, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andre12031948

If the new Z gets smaller with a 4cyl., I'd love to see that discount on the 2014's. My new car???

I wouldn't count on that happening. Right now Nissan has lowered the price on the 2014 base model over $3000 and they're offering no incentive (other than 0% APR) to move the 2013's. Dealers are literally going to lose money on their 2013's.

andre12031948 · 08-11-2013, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bret_T

I wouldn't count on that happening. Right now Nissan has lowered the price on the 2014 base model over $3000 and they're offering no incentive (other than 0% APR) to move the 2013's. Dealers are literally going to lose money on their 2013's.

Lowered $3,000 on the 2014???? Still a long way to the start of 2014. No?

Imagine the discount/lowered price in Aug. of 2014

Bret_T · 08-11-2013, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andre12031948

Lowered $3,000 on the 2014???? Still a long way to the start of 2014. No?

No, the 2014 370Z's are in production right now and available at some dealerships.

andre12031948 · 08-11-2013, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bret_T

No, the 2014 370Z's are in production right now and available at some dealerships.

^^^^^ everyone knows that

What does that have to do with a possible huge discount by mid/end of 2014?

Today Aug. 2013 is $3,000 lowered + dealer profit. You think a year from now, especially if a new model comes out, the discount will not be bigger???

My last post on this subject.

Bret_T · 08-11-2013, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andre12031948

What does that have to do with a possible huge discount by mid/end of 2014?

Today Aug. 2013 is $3,000 lowered + dealer profit. You think a year from now, especially if a new model comes out, the discount will not be bigger???

My last post on this subject.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Nissan is not discounting (as in offering dealer incentives or rebates) in order to move the 2013's. This is very odd considering that they lowered the price of the 2014's. The effect is that their dealers are hit with a pretty immediate loss on their inventory. Given that they'd hang dealers out like this, I'm doubting that they are going to care when the same thing happens a year from now. It's just my take. We'll see.

Tigger · 08-11-2013, 05:08 PM

I agree with everyone above on pretty much every point. But I would like to point out something I've been noticing recently and if it is a trend then I wouldn't expect to see anything in 2016 that'll impress in terms of a new Z or even the likes of one.

For example, the 200HP engine has been the benchmark number for how many years now? 14? 15? Even so, it seems manufacturers are only trying to acheive those same numbers with smaller and smaller engines that are more fuel efficient. The new Honda Accord "Sport" model only has, what, 185? Sport? Give me a break.

What I'm saying is they keep re-generating the same numbers and the only battle now is for fuel economy. They don't really care about hp anymore as long as they get close. BMW drops the 8cyl in the M3 for a turbo-6. And what are the figures? only 6 more ponies than last year. Whoopie-do!

The FRS? I drove one again the other day here in Las Cruces because I was bored. Handling was fine. But it was sooooo damn slooowww! It made it almost unbearable. I think my 138hp rental car has more torque.

What it comes down to really is this... performance figures are all but out the window. The battle is fuel economy in ever larger vehicles and soon every damn engine will have a turbo on it and will be direct injected. Not necessarily a bad thing but it will begin to limit the ability to do much to the motor for performance gains since they are getter ever smaller in displacement and most will be 1.6L or smaller and will soon likely come coupled with batteries as a standard feature.

So if they decide to compete with the FRS in 2016, expect low performance figures and specs. I would expect a performance drop with the Z as well if they so choose to bring it back in 2016 as an overhauled vehicle. It'll be underpowered but that's ok as long as it is 100 pounds lighter.

Bret_T · 08-11-2013, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigger

What I'm saying is they keep re-generating the same numbers and the only battle now is for fuel economy. They don't really care about hp anymore as long as they get close.

I agree with what you're saying, but I'll also add another point. Most performance car oriented drivers do not have the skills to match the higher performance cars that are out there anyway. Therefore, other than bragging rights, there's nothing in it for most drivers when they gain additional HP.

08-11-2013, 05:08 PM	#8 (permalink)
Tigger A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: NM Posts: 8,063 Drives: Awedeeeeee Rep Power: 603	I agree with everyone above on pretty much every point. But I would like to point out something I've been noticing recently and if it is a trend then I wouldn't expect to see anything in 2016 that'll impress in terms of a new Z or even the likes of one. For example, the 200HP engine has been the benchmark number for how many years now? 14? 15? Even so, it seems manufacturers are only trying to acheive those same numbers with smaller and smaller engines that are more fuel efficient. The new Honda Accord "Sport" model only has, what, 185? Sport? Give me a break. What I'm saying is they keep re-generating the same numbers and the only battle now is for fuel economy. They don't really care about hp anymore as long as they get close. BMW drops the 8cyl in the M3 for a turbo-6. And what are the figures? only 6 more ponies than last year. Whoopie-do! The FRS? I drove one again the other day here in Las Cruces because I was bored. Handling was fine. But it was sooooo damn slooowww! It made it almost unbearable. I think my 138hp rental car has more torque. What it comes down to really is this... performance figures are all but out the window. The battle is fuel economy in ever larger vehicles and soon every damn engine will have a turbo on it and will be direct injected. Not necessarily a bad thing but it will begin to limit the ability to do much to the motor for performance gains since they are getter ever smaller in displacement and most will be 1.6L or smaller and will soon likely come coupled with batteries as a standard feature. So if they decide to compete with the FRS in 2016, expect low performance figures and specs. I would expect a performance drop with the Z as well if they so choose to bring it back in 2016 as an overhauled vehicle. It'll be underpowered but that's ok as long as it is 100 pounds lighter. Tick64 likes this.

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08-11-2013, 04:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
andre12031948 Banned Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: monticello new york 127 Posts: 1,095 Drives: 08 350z black 6m/t Rep Power: 0	At the end of 08 Nissan gave a 5k rebate for the 08's. The 09's were out & that rebate + $2k profit made the dealers offer $7k-$8k discounts. Some people got great cars (08's) at a fantastic price. If the new Z gets smaller with a 4cyl., I'd love to see that discount on the 2014's. My new car???