370Z Sport Package vs Mazdaspeed 3 GT vs S2000 vs Cayman S vs Mazda Rx-8

Robert_Nash · 08-07-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mook

...I don't understand why it's suddenly offensive to talk about shortcomings of a car. But hey, if everyone is so offended - I will go away.

Offensive?

For someone who doesn't own a 370Z to join a internet forum established specifically for 370Z enthusiasts and give everyone his/her learned opinion about what's wrong with the vehicle isn't offensive; just rather dumb.

Maybe I should go join a forum dedicated to the C6 Corvette because I've thought about buying one "sometime"...I can then tell them everything I don't like about the car...I love the engine/drivetrain; even in the base model but I really hate OnStar, the 'Vette's crappy seats and it's vacuum tube based navigation system...I'm sure they would be real receptive over there.

joeyz10 · 08-07-2009, 06:18 PM

Rober that's awesome and coming from an intelligent person not from a Boy!

gnarf · 08-07-2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogueDPS

Untrue. I track my RX-8 regularly with minimal mods (brakes, wheels, tires) and it is completely composed at speeds well in excess of 110.

This one made me chuckle. I've belonged to that forum for years and the vast majority are as loyal to their cars as are the people over here. The 370Z is not superior to the RX in "every" way. It is superior to the RX in several significant ways. There are few absolutes in life.

I apologize for that misunderstanding..I read that in an automotive forum not an RX8 forum...but in that forum a bunch of them were going "if the 370z came out sooner" and "seems like I will go for the 370z as a next car" I meant no negative aspect about the car..I usually get heated when people make false accusations...not sure if you have had some serious seat time in a 370z or G37..but in those cars its cake to drive them at higher speeds...the RX8 takes a bit longer to a hundred..though I love the handling of both the RX8 and the S2000..they just dont do it for me with the lack of torque and power..
Im sorry if I came up a lil aggressive but if the OP comes in here and as his first post he says "test drove the Z...didnt feel that fast at all...Cayman S is awesomezzz"...then he should buy a cayman S instead of ranting about how the Z was a letdown at actual Z owners or how awesome a discontinued s2000 felt or how great a used 45k car felt..

gnarf · 08-07-2009, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mook

Actually, am selling MS3 and all set on buying 370Z.. Instead of reading all the trigger happy fan boy off-topic tirades, take a look at the actual posts.

MS3 obviously is not a better car than 370Z. And my first post deals with all the shortcomings (steering feel, cheap transmission, fwd, top end drop off, etc).

If you really want to be anal about it, the "feel" is all about the torque, which is the ability to change speed, not in the HP, which is ability to maintain speed.
We have 280 lb torque @ 3000 rpm for MS3 vs 270lb @ 5200 for the Z.

Besides, the top hp in the Z comes at 7000, MS3 - much earlier @ 5,500 rpm. The gearing may also be a bit too tall in the Z contributing to the lack of low end "power feel".

To top it all, ms3 can be about 200lb lighter.

If you don't think 200lb is a big deal - put your mother in law in your trunk and drive around.

Put it all together, and on a straight line from a rolling start you get more excitement out of MS3. Now, if you actually enjoy getting creative in turns once in a while - there is no comparison. Drag race, same thing. Almost any tight RWD car has a huge advantage.

All in all at about 4000 rpm the 2 cars may feel about equally powerful but one has more weight.

Take a look at this comparo that I just found: Winding Road Magazine | Issue 46 - page 146 ("for the starters 370Z did not actually 'feel' that much faster than any of the others... The engine is adequately powerful, but doesn't feel as willing to rev or as potent as the horsepower numbers might lead you to believe...") Of course, they go on to say that 370Z is the best overall car, no doubt about it.

I don't understand why it's suddenly offensive to talk about shortcomings of a car. But hey, if everyone is so offended - I will go away.

dude i dont get this post at all...what are you trying to imply...you want to buy a 370z..but you give me an essay on how awesome the torque and power comes out sooner in the MS3, how its lighter, and then you take an article describing the lack of feel in the Z...i know you are trying to give me an understanding...and I know as a prospective owner you have the need to know the Z's shortcomings...but bringing up these negative posts while NOT being a Z owner will only turn you away from buying a 370z..Im sure youll be impressed once you own a Z...but hey if its not for you..there are plenty of choices that will fit your needs..

joeyz10 · 08-08-2009, 07:55 PM

As I said before DONT WASTE TIME ON THIS IDIOT. He is just playing around. You know one of those who really Can't afford a car but just read the magazines and pissed off everyone. Ignore this Idiot Mook. th name Mook is already a start don't you think?

stag3 · 08-09-2009, 12:07 AM

welp looks like no 370z for me, my car came in, went to drive it, awesome car , 19 miles on her. walk in to work out #'s.

i had already got a quote from danny at fontana nissan for 31,419 +ttl for the car (base pearl white with sport package, 6spd, splash guards, floor and trunk mats ). he was great to deal with, i guess the owner/gm didn't want the sale as they tried to make up the diff back in my trade-in.

here is the nada
Base Price $15,050 $16,250 $17,225 $20,150
------------ rough -- average-- clean--- retail

now the offers i've gotten in trade in from mitsubishi are 16.9
and lexus offered me 17k for my ms3

i waited to long and all the silver evo's are gone now

and i decided i didn't want to drive an automatic

didn't care about the apr as i was going to finance thru my credit union for 4.98%
only the bottom line prices mattered. well they offered me 12.5k lol i said you guys are giving me trade-in on a regular mazda3 hatchback, they came back with 13.5k and that was the highest they could go. if they gave me anywhere near what the other dealers were offering, i would have driven home in her.

i guess i can try to private party sell my car, but by then it will be gone as i waited about 3 mos for this one to arrive. good luck to everyone else looking.
to bad i couldn't get one :\

mdbrich · 08-09-2009, 01:29 AM

1

355890 · 08-09-2009, 10:25 AM

Well ......... he got lots hits.....but then, that was the intention.

Santent · 08-09-2009, 11:19 AM

the s2000 is one of the ugliest cars i ever see on the road,, it looks like a POS with no curves, dull colors and probably even duller drivers.

of here z haters, go to your own bad site

mook · 08-16-2009, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sand123

After reading through these 5 long pages, I feel like I need to submit my own opinion to tamper some of the dissention going on here. I currently drive a Mazdaspeed 3 (not a Mazda 3, like some have posted, that is a completely different car) and I carpool with a friend who drives an 06 Porsche Cayman S. I have also test driven and been looking at the 370Z.

I have driven all three of these cars. I am considering buying a 370Z which is why I am on this forum, and I am not "TROLLING" like Mook has been accused of. I do have to agree with Mook on the point that the Mazdaspeed3 (with minor bolt-ons makes close to 300 bhp) "feels" a bit faster than the 370Z and Cayman S because of the extra torque and more linear power delivery. However, the Cayman S is the better car (and faster car, though it did run a slower lap time than my MS3 at the autocross

. I've enjoyed driving the Porsche because of the RWD, and for that reason I test drove the Z recently, and have been considering trading in my Mazdaspeed3 for that car. It is mainly a function of having the rear wheel drive. As far as motor is concerned, I still prefer the MS3 motor (keeping in mind that I do have the bolt-on intake and midpipe which makes some extra power) because of the sheer wave of torque that it produces. But I like the RWD of the Z, and the shorter wheel base and handling characteristics. So overall I'm torn, and am having a difficult time choosing.

There seems to be a pretty biased feeling of superiority among Z owners against other manufacturers like Mazda, Honda, etc. The Mazdaspeed3 IS a great sports car; if you don't agree, check out the reviews on Automobile and Car and Driver. "This is a sports car folks, hang on and enjoy it," are the words from one article that I remember best. I know Z owners feel like they are in a different league, but you're still talking about cars that fall into the 25K to 30K price range and offer similar power to weight numbers. The Z is not a Ferrari and it is still a logical competitor against cars like the MS3 and WRX, STI, G37, Evo, etc. 30K will buy you any one of these cars.

I had dismissed the Z previously because the 350 was a slower car than the MS3 as far as power to weight and track times are concerned. But I love that the new 370Z is lighter AND stronger. So I am back in the market. But I just want to shed some light on this argument, and remember, never underestimate the competition!

If you are having hard time deciding and dont' care about track performance, like I was, test drive a certified pre-owned 06/07 BMW M Coupe. 07 will give you 4 years of warranty and 100,000 miles for $34-38k, 06 - $30-34k. And they will pay for your oil changes and brake pads for two years.
M3 engine, 330 hp / 262 lb (huge low end), 3200 lb and 50/50 weight, a real mechanical M3 LSD.
Check out this comparo by Brits, funny as hell: BMW Z4 M Coupe vs Porsche Cayman S - Feeling the burn - Top Gear

I bought mine two days ago. If the "feel" is what you are after and you want a rwd, this might be for you. No way it will beat Z on the track, except on the drag strip, but fun factor bests all the other cars I have driven. It feels like a beast, faster than the Mazda and it has the M3 engine so don't worry about low end, lol. In sport mode and traction control off, it demands lots of driver input. If Z is the real life hero, M coupe is a comic book hero. No match for the real thing, but a lot more fun. Although, some mags listed 4.4 to 60 in the M Roadster, coups a bit slower. Oh, and it comes with concierge button - lol. Just don't expect the same fuel efficiency as the Z

Ankur194 · 08-26-2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santent

the s2000 is one of the ugliest cars i ever see on the road,, it looks like a POS with no curves, dull colors and probably even duller drivers.

of here z haters, go to your own bad site

This is one of the most retarded statments ever.

It is a super clean design which has plenty of curves, looks substantial, aggressive, and has aged very well.

I own an S2000 now and used to have a 350z Roadster. Never driven a 370z yet so cant compare, but S2000 is a much funner car than my 350 was. When I get in my S2k I feel like i "put it on" and not got in (if that makes sense to anyone). The 350 was not the same, not to say it was bad, just different. The 350 felt faster (Torque) and was way more comfortable. Really its a matter of prefrence of what you like, and from the reviews Ive read about the 370 it seems to emulate a similar connection with the driver that the s2k does, but also has the comfort/power, and thats why Im considering getting one as my next ride.

Everyone also must remember S2000 is a 10 year old design with nearly half the engine size. Yet even today it hangs with he best of them. This does say alot about what kind of car it is.

Santent's statement is just as "boy racer" as saying a sup'd up econobox = sports car

bullitt5897 · 08-26-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ankur194

This is one of the most retarded statments ever.

It is a super clean design which has plenty of curves, looks substantial, aggressive, and has aged very well.

I own an S2000 now and used to have a 350z Roadster. Never driven a 370z yet so cant compare, but S2000 is a much funner car than my 350 was. When I get in my S2k I feel like i "put it on" and not got in (if that makes sense to anyone). The 350 was not the same, not to say it was bad, just different. The 350 felt faster (Torque) and was way more comfortable. Really its a matter of prefrence of what you like, and from the reviews Ive read about the 370 it seems to emulate a similar connection with the driver that the s2k does, but also has the comfort/power, and thats why Im considering getting one as my next ride.

Everyone also must remember S2000 is a 10 year old design with nearly half the engine size. Yet even today it hangs with he best of them. This does say alot about what kind of car it is.

Santent's statement is just as "boy racer" as saying a sup'd up econobox = sports car

I remember my 07 s2000 it was a blast!!! I mean serious track junkie canyon cutter!!! I did several long drive 12+ hrs and it was insanely uncomfortable (I dont stop except for gas). I remember getting out of the car to fill up and my gf at the time was like wats wrong with you... ( I looked like a 6'2" hunch back lol) I loved that car but I tell you what I love the 370z even more! I wished I would have saved the $15k in mods on the s for the 370z! Its just as fun as the S but with tons more power! I am still part of the local s2k club and we do track days. lol lets just say I got a bunch of flak at the beginning of the Z's first track day but by the time the day was over no one wanted to mess with the Z... I had to call one of the guys a P**** (More like Yelled out in the pits "Walter you P**** get your a** on the track and come play! Your all talk and no action ya big P****!) just to get him to join my session and play cat and mouse! I wooped his butt all over the track!

Enjoy the S and when you want to upgrade the Z awaits you!

wakesnow · 08-30-2009, 06:18 AM

Laguna Seca Laptimes

MotorTrend 6/2007: Test Driver Max Angellini (Pro Driver)

1:54.990 Honda Civic SI
1:51.733 Mini Cooper S JC Works GP
1:50.738 Honda S2000
1:50.375 Mazdaspeed3 GT
1:49:038 BMW335i
1:47.926 Mitsubishi Evolution IX MR
1:47.577 Porsche Cayman S
1:45.818 Lotus Exige S
1:40.919 Chevrolet Corvette (C6) Z06
1:39.517 Porsche 911 (997) GT3

MotorTrend 10/2008: Test Driver Randy Pobst (Pro Driver)

1:51.977 Mini Coope S (2nd Gen)
1:50.418 Mazda RX8
1:47.751 Chevrolet Cobalt SS
1:47.713 Mitsubishi Evo MR (Evo X)
1:44.716 Ford Shelby GT500KR
1:42.964 BMW M3 (E92)
1:42.507 Porsche 911 (997) Turbo
1:40.920 Audi R8
1:40.453 Nissan GTR
1:35.117 Dodge Viper ACR

MotorTrend 10/2009: Test Driver Randy Pobst (Pro Driver)

1:52.200 2009 Mazda MX-5 Miata
1:46.500 2010 Nissan Nismo 370Z
1:46.000 2009 BMW 135i
1:45.700 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS
1:45.400 2010 Jaguar XFR
1:44.400 2010 Shelby GT500
1:43.900 2009 Cadillac CTS-V
1:43.000 2009 Porsche Cayman S PDK
1:40.800 2009 Audi R8
1:35.800 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1

Looks like the 370Z is a pretty decent value, that being said Nissan Motor Co really needs to get off their butt and install a real LSD, appropriate coolers for the Oil/Tranny/Power Steering and real seats on the Nismo to turn it into a proper car that can be tracked reliably.

Just my 2 cents.

Equinox · 09-29-2009, 04:00 PM

I just sold my 400whp Mazdaspeed3 GT and bought a 370z. The sports car feel of of the 370z caught me by surprise. Low, raked windshield, big wing (nismo), rear wheel wag with tcs off, but by far, my mazdaspeed was way more satisfying, and fast

Nick911sc · 09-29-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equinox

I just sold my 400whp Mazdaspeed3 GT and bought a 370z. The sports car feel of of the 370z caught me by surprise. Low, raked windshield, big wing (nismo), rear wheel wag with tcs off, but by far, my mazdaspeed was way more satisfying, and fast

Of course it's going to be slower..You're comparing 400whp to 350bhp? No shock there...And the Nismo seems to be slower than the base lol

And might I ask a list of mods?

400whp sounds a lot for the MS3 unless you rebuilt the motor...

08-09-2009, 12:07 AM	#111 (permalink)
stag3 Base Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: socal Posts: 24 Drives: 2008 mazdaspeed 3 Rep Power: 15	welp looks like no 370z for me, my car came in, went to drive it, awesome car , 19 miles on her. walk in to work out #'s. i had already got a quote from danny at fontana nissan for 31,419 +ttl for the car (base pearl white with sport package, 6spd, splash guards, floor and trunk mats ). he was great to deal with, i guess the owner/gm didn't want the sale as they tried to make up the diff back in my trade-in. here is the nada Base Price $15,050 $16,250 $17,225 $20,150 ------------ rough -- average-- clean--- retail now the offers i've gotten in trade in from mitsubishi are 16.9 and lexus offered me 17k for my ms3 i waited to long and all the silver evo's are gone now and i decided i didn't want to drive an automatic didn't care about the apr as i was going to finance thru my credit union for 4.98% only the bottom line prices mattered. well they offered me 12.5k lol i said you guys are giving me trade-in on a regular mazda3 hatchback, they came back with 13.5k and that was the highest they could go. if they gave me anywhere near what the other dealers were offering, i would have driven home in her. i guess i can try to private party sell my car, but by then it will be gone as i waited about 3 mos for this one to arrive. good luck to everyone else looking. to bad i couldn't get one :\ Last edited by stag3; 08-09-2009 at 02:35 AM.

08-09-2009, 01:29 AM	#112 (permalink)
mdbrich Base Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: ATX Posts: 171 Drives: Nizmo, DD Honda Fit Rep Power: 15	1 Last edited by mdbrich; 02-22-2010 at 11:46 PM.

08-09-2009, 10:25 AM	#113 (permalink)
355890 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 416 Drives: GP Z Base+Sport (6m) Rep Power: 541	Well ......... he got lots hits.....but then, that was the intention. __________________ *"Burnley Football Club supporter" ENGLAND...ENGLAND...ENGLAND*

08-09-2009, 11:19 AM	#114 (permalink)
Santent Base Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Ft. Worth, TX Posts: 79 Drives: 09 Mont Blue 370z Rep Power: 15	the s2000 is one of the ugliest cars i ever see on the road,, it looks like a POS with no curves, dull colors and probably even duller drivers. of here z haters, go to your own bad site __________________ Tickets are on sale for the QQ train, im in first class, where's your a$$?

08-30-2009, 06:18 AM	#118 (permalink)
wakesnow Base Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: CO/CA Posts: 2 Drives: 06 Suby Outback XT Rep Power: 15	Laptimes RX8, S2000, Mazdaspeed 3, 370Z, Cayman Laguna Seca Laptimes MotorTrend 6/2007: Test Driver Max Angellini (Pro Driver) 1:54.990 Honda Civic SI 1:51.733 Mini Cooper S JC Works GP 1:50.738 Honda S2000 1:50.375 Mazdaspeed3 GT 1:49:038 BMW335i 1:47.926 Mitsubishi Evolution IX MR 1:47.577 Porsche Cayman S 1:45.818 Lotus Exige S 1:40.919 Chevrolet Corvette (C6) Z06 1:39.517 Porsche 911 (997) GT3 MotorTrend 10/2008: Test Driver Randy Pobst (Pro Driver) 1:51.977 Mini Coope S (2nd Gen) 1:50.418 Mazda RX8 1:47.751 Chevrolet Cobalt SS 1:47.713 Mitsubishi Evo MR (Evo X) 1:44.716 Ford Shelby GT500KR 1:42.964 BMW M3 (E92) 1:42.507 Porsche 911 (997) Turbo 1:40.920 Audi R8 1:40.453 Nissan GTR 1:35.117 Dodge Viper ACR MotorTrend 10/2009: Test Driver Randy Pobst (Pro Driver) 1:52.200 2009 Mazda MX-5 Miata 1:46.500 2010 Nissan Nismo 370Z 1:46.000 2009 BMW 135i 1:45.700 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1:45.400 2010 Jaguar XFR 1:44.400 2010 Shelby GT500 1:43.900 2009 Cadillac CTS-V 1:43.000 2009 Porsche Cayman S PDK 1:40.800 2009 Audi R8 1:35.800 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 Looks like the 370Z is a pretty decent value, that being said Nissan Motor Co really needs to get off their butt and install a real LSD, appropriate coolers for the Oil/Tranny/Power Steering and real seats on the Nismo to turn it into a proper car that can be tracked reliably. Just my 2 cents. Last edited by wakesnow; 08-30-2009 at 06:20 AM.

08-07-2009, 06:18 PM	#107 (permalink)
joeyz10 Base Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: SoCal Posts: 248 Drives: 09 370z AT/ RRSS 08/ Rep Power: 16	Rober that's awesome and coming from an intelligent person not from a Boy!

08-08-2009, 07:55 PM	#110 (permalink)
joeyz10 Base Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: SoCal Posts: 248 Drives: 09 370z AT/ RRSS 08/ Rep Power: 16	As I said before DONT WASTE TIME ON THIS IDIOT. He is just playing around. You know one of those who really Can't afford a car but just read the magazines and pissed off everyone. Ignore this Idiot Mook. th name Mook is already a start don't you think?

09-29-2009, 04:00 PM	#119 (permalink)
Equinox Track Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Beaumont, TX Posts: 685 Drives: 06 Porsche Carrera S Rep Power: 17	I just sold my 400whp Mazdaspeed3 GT and bought a 370z. The sports car feel of of the 370z caught me by surprise. Low, raked windshield, big wing (nismo), rear wheel wag with tcs off, but by far, my mazdaspeed was way more satisfying, and fast __________________ Check out my Albums '13 Subaru WRX STi \| '06 Porsche 911 Carrera S (SOLD) \| '96 Mazda RX-7 6.0L V8 RHD (SOLD) \| '09 Nissan Nismo #0058 (SOLD)

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