Nismo = cheese-mo
I can't get over this so I figured I'd post my opinion and see what you guys think. Four months ago when I bought my 370Z, I was an excited 'convert' from having owned a number of Audis.
With my old Audis, I was truly an Audi enthusiast. I drooled over the S and RS variations of the cars, attended Audi driving schools, etc etc. I was loyal and loved the sportier versions offered by the S and RS models. Audi had and still has something special in their 'sporty racing' versions that is sexy and desirable. Now I'm a Nissan owner and I love my new Z. However, out comes the Nismo 370Z and all I do is find myself cringing at everything Nismo represents. First, the 'sportier' model looks arguably ridiculous from some or many angles. Even something as simple as more aggressive styling is done with numerous stepoffs and contours that don't compliment each other. To make matters worse, the bumpers look like plastic rather than smooth, sleek and hi-tech. Second, the Nismo really offers nothing that's more desirable. If Audi put out a Nismo 370Z, it would sport a twin-turbo or V8 upgrade. Why isn't our Nismo sporting 400+hp? BMW and Mercedes also know the recipe with their M and AMG versions. People would laugh at Audi if the RS4 just had new front and rear bumpers, some RS4 stitching and a new exhaust. In short, I'm sorry to say that anything Nismo makes my stomach crawl. The last thing I'd want on my car is anything that actually says "Nismo". For me, Nismo is just Cheese-mo. What do you guys think? |
Being a Z person since the last Z (350), I have had a little more time to become accustomed to this. The 350 nismo was even worse than the 370 version. In american cars, where I came from, the sportier models actually came with some real goodies.
So, in short, totally agree. |
it's just the way it is with nismo. it's just the name and looks to have bragging rights of having a genuine nismo model Z.
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Cant wait for a certain person to answer to this. I completely agree. Although the front end on the 350 was cool. |
+1
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Jealousy.......
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It's not that the parts look boy-racer, or that the exhaust nets you a whoppin 5 hp while others net you in the teens, or that it's way overpriced for what you get, or that you cant get nav with it. |
Very much agree, as I currently own an Audi S4 and keep trying to rationalize NOT having a 370z (losing battle). The lack of a gap in performance between the base and the Nismo given the price disparity is shameful.
S. |
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I look at it this way, Nissan is trying to create an exclusive item which the general public can afford but they really have no clue what they are doing.
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Nissan already has a twin turbo 6 cylinder - it's called a GT-R; Nissan doesn't need to put out a Z that would be putting down near GT-R HP/Tq and likely, be dangerously close to a GT-R price.
More importantly; who would buy it??? How big do you think the $60-$70K+ sports car market is? |
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Would I be able to afford it right now? No. Would I drool when I saw someone drive it by, lust for it, and probably buy it in a few years when I'm not a surgical resident any longer? Absolutely. I think the $60-70k sportscar market is pretty huge actually. Porsche has two models in that bracket and they're still in business :). |
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I'm not a fan of the NISMO, but I don't fault Nissan for making it. We need to remember that this is Nissan, not Mercedes, BMW, or Audi. This is a company that sells cars starting at just over 10K. I'm just happy that Nissan is still pretty commited to performance cars in an age when so many "everyman" car companies are scrapping them.
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AGREED. Somethings I would have loved to see in this Nismo Z.
1. FACTORY INSTALLED OIL COOLERS for a track focused car is a serious nobrainer. [bruno] Nissan.....Wass Up?[/bruno] 2. Direct Injection and at least 50 more hp[aftermarket is getting close to that with just i/e/h & tune. A cam to exploit an 8000-8200 redline would be nice but not necessary. 3. Its own gearset to maximize all 6 gears [who cares about 1-2mpg loss on a track focused car] 4. Lightweight Racing seats to offset some of the weight added by the seam welds. 5. A more aesthetically pleasing lightweight bodykit that added "significant" downforce. 40-45k for this I believe people would easily pay. I mean they are paying that for the 370z Nismo as it stands and getting way less than the above. \/\/ Thanks Whoady:) |
Great post SB.
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Agree, the best way Nissan could go with the Nismo line is making what everyone thinks it is, a track base car. Cut the weight (seats, rear, etc.), a nice solid boost in HP, but the most important is the handling, it needs to be a very large step above the standard coupe, oh and an oil cooler.
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Also agree, maybe it's because I'm in my 30s now, but the NISMO looks way to boy racer for me to appreciate. If it were just a little more expensive I would understand, but there's no way it's worth the premium that Nissan wants for it.
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I think some of your guys expectations for the Nismo models are a bit too high. I honestly think it's quite a nice package from the factory.
Looks are subjective, but along with the bodykit, you get wheels, intake, exhaust and a tune. There are other parts included, but if one were to try and build a base model Z in the same manner as the nismo, costs would far exceed the Nismo's MSRP. All in all it represents a good value IMO. Could you build a faster Z or a better handling Z, sure, but everything done right from the factory with a warranty to boot is very nice to have. Even if you like to mod, I think the nismo would make a nice starting platform. The Nismo may be marketed as a more "track-ready" Z, and with the improved suspension I think it is, but more "track-ready" or not, Nissan still makes a compromises for a daily driven car and the overall market. There are many comparisons to M-models and AMG, but there is roughly a 15-20K price difference between say a moderately equipped M3 and a fully loaded 335i coupe. Could Nissan build a Z with more exclusivity and power, I'm sure they can, but really who is going to spend 50K plus on a Z. Bang for the buck is one of the main draw-points for the Z, so if you take that away, there are other options I'd consider. Some people have made comparisons to a GT3 and even a GT3RS, but again look at the price differential and eek, lack of power gain with the 3 and 3RS. |
I bet I could beat the Nismo Z and save money with my base Z with sport package.
Changes: ~Upgraded suspension - Aftermarket 1,000USD (BC Racing BR Type Coilovers) ~Tires - 1200USD (Your choice, this price will get you plenty) ~HP gain - HFC 450USD (Berk) I am only at 2650USD and I already out handle and have the same gains as the Nismo Z. Other price parts, body kit can probably be picked up from Nissan for maybe 3,000USD, and I can throw in an exhaust for 1200 and be far above the HP of the Nismo. All this for 6850USD, which would put my price of 30,500 plus 6850 right around the price of the Nismo Z. |
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C6- 4XX HP Z06-505 HP ZR1-638 HP |
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If Nissan could extrapolate this achievement into a higher HP variant based on a detuned GT-R motor, upgrade the suspension package, wrap some leather into the cockpit components, substitute some brushed aluminum for plastic on the interior...you'd shift the bar up yet again. This $60k, twin-turbo, 420hp "real Nismo" 370Z would then be compared to $90k 911s instead of $60k Caymans. |
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To turn around the argument, you could spend 15K on a base Z and get a built TT with 400-500whp. But yes a Nissan car aimed at the 911 would be interesting. The GT-R targets the 911 turbo and the 370Z targets the cayman....so another model could slide right in. Not sure it would sell though. A TT sounds nice, but for a something aimed at the regular 911, I'd like a V8 370Z or perhaps and non-turbo GT-R :eekdance: |
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The issue with just saying, drop 10k into a TT kit is, there is more than just that 10k for the parts plus install. There is maintenance you have to deal with, chance of a major problem happening which will be out your own pocket. If Nissan did a 370TT with a factory warranty then that would be great.
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As for the i/e/ and tune Ill concede that Nissan is going to promote its in house Nismo products understandably so i dont expect them to use the best aftermarket [in terms of cold hard numbers] i/e and tune we know are available. But they could have at least matched the performance numbers some members are "easily" getting. The i/e/h tune numbers from guys like Semtex, RCZ put the Nismo Z's tweaks to shame and I know they didnt spend anywhere close to 10-15k premium for that. Check the latest tests fo the Nismo Z vs the regular Z and it aint faster. Why bother paying for a dud. Harsh but until a test validates the 10-15k premium over the other Z models thats what the Nismo Z essentially is. One can spend that 10-15k premium money and make a much better track Z and still keep their warranty imho. Im not looking for unreasonable products. Im sure Nissan has comparable performing products they could have used 1. KW Variant 2-3 suspension for example 2. Dual exhaust/header/intake and tune of your choice 3. Oil cooler of your choice Add em up and not close to 10k and you will run rings around the Nismo Z thats tested not faster than the normal Z. I still have money left for front brake upgrade or light weight seats. Imagine if I dealt with volume sales for those components like Nissan, Id save even more per item over a model line imho. Just thinking out loud. :tiphat: |
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As to the market...huge? Are you kidding me? If you took all the sports car models sold by every manufacturer in a year and added them together they wouldn't equal the annual sales of even one mainstream model...even in a ridiculously tiny TVM of 10M units a year the normal size of the sports car market isn't a drop in the bucket. And Nissan isn't Porsche...if it was a base 370 would cost you $55K at least. |
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As far as a light weight body kits. The new corvette is all fiberglass. The Corvette z06 and zr1 are made of carbon fiber for obvious reasons. Nissan should have thought about doing something similar. |
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I think the nismo represents a good value, but no doubt you can get more gains through aftermarket parts. I've said in my previous post in this thread that you can get more performance through aftermarket parts. I don't think that was ever a question. And when the "15-20K" was brought up, that is in regards to M and AMG models compared to the regular variants. The Nismo does 15K more than a base model. A Z with touring/sports and nav will cost more than a nismo. I've seen the edmunds test, but that is just one test. I've commented on those threads. After all is said and done, I'd expect the Nismo to be a little faster or maybe the engine parts just don't make much more power. Or the parts make all their power at or near redline which could prove favorable on the track. |
Well (grabs heat shield, lol) ..... at least it looks less "cheese-mo" than the 350 Nismo, IMO. The rear spoiler is the thing that really puts it over the top for me, screams boy-racer, but to each his own. As far as NISMO (Nissan Motorsports racing), I don't think it's really fair to confuse that with the perception we seem to have of the 370Z Nismo.
John |
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Also a Z with sport package and touring can be had for 36-38k when I was initially looking. Obviously out the door would be a bit more. But the Nismo Z starts at 39k. Out the door it will be 40k+ easily especially with the markups. Id get the SP, minus the nav package, so I can get the rev match and lsd. I can get such a car for around 34k when I was initially looking. 34k plus these mods below would make for a car around the Nismo Z's price with much better performance imho. Correct me if my numbers are not current. Stillen Exhaust - $1500 Stillen Intake - $549 Stillen Oil Cooler - $426 Berk High Flow Cats - $549 KW Variant 3 - $2000 Hotchkis Sway bar upgrade $375 Dyno Tune - $500-1000 maybe more. Total = 6399 without shipping. Price will climb with that added of course but I dont have a ball park for it as it varies. The above is just enough products to beatdown the Nismo Z with ease. I didnt include wheels or bodykit as they didnt help the Nismo Z at all against a sport packaged 370z and the body kit is useless at the track dispite Nissans claim of downforce. Downforce too minimal to affect the overall numbers vs the normal SP Z. Still have a bit of money left in that 10k Nismo premium for light track wheels, front big brake kit if the person choses. This wont get you a limited Nismo version but it will get you a Z that will embarrass the Nismo branded version on any track imho..BTW all the mods I listed wont void your waranty I believe as this is not a GTR lol. These threads are fun but purely wishfull thinking :tiphat: |
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Suspension. I think the current 370Z Sport suspension falls very short on capabilites. The NISMO model does fill in those gaps. However, engine changes ( Turbo, Supercharger ) enhancements are really what is in order for a flagship model. I am an ex - VW owner R32. and it was quick !! |
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folks expecting to pay mid to upper 40's , approaching 50k for a vette .. say.. would consider a 370z with 400hp or thereabouts, produced by a sc or turbos, without all the doo-dads of the GTR (which price-wise competes with the z06). such a car would fill a niche between the 370z current versions and the GTR and what with GM being run by the gubment would give chevy a run for their money with vettes... and prolly pull some camaro ss folks in to a slightly higher range... and get me off the fence too since i want vette power in a z type car. to me the nismo is a dressed up z with little or no performance based redeeming value.. and for me its all about performance and zilich about the bling.. |
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If tha Nismo had at least 375 hp and it cost under 50G.. I would definitely do it
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Couldn't have said it better. Nissan IS being "cheesy" with the Nismo. |
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