Era of the Muscle Car is over

edeeZee · 06-18-2009, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazilbro

you would?? the batteries and motors would push it to the 4000lb mark , not to mention the weight balance.. what fun would that be? it would just be a sexy looking car with no performance.. if you want a 2 seater hybrid pick up a used insight... probably have better MPG and performace.

about 300lbs. more and supposedly 100hp more--> 432hp at ~3600 lbs.
Nissan to Launch Hybrid 370Z sports car in 2011! > 370z.com > 370z.com - Magazine

Mental Block · 06-17-2009, 01:34 AM

Al Gore invented the internet. I'd really consider listening to what he has to say.

antennahead · 06-17-2009, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Block

Al Gore invented the internet. I'd really consider listening to what he has to say.

Mergnthwirker · 06-17-2009, 09:54 AM

I've been watching the development of the Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems used in Formula 1 racing this year. Next year the system will be mandated for all teams. The system adds weight (battery, electronics, motors) but provides short bursts of 80HP at the driver's control. Kinda like hitting the "nitrous" button!

I'd like to see more motor racing organizations mandating the use of hybrid technology.

In fact, I'd love to see a series such as Indy racing adopt ruling so there are no restrictions at all on the technology, but an absolute cap on the amount of fuel that can be used. OK folks, here's the Indy 500. Every competitor is limited to 50 gallons of fuel. Good luck! Gentleman (and ladies), start your engines!

CrownR426 · 06-17-2009, 10:02 AM

I hope muscle cars don't fade away.
Who else will we depend on to bother us on the highways?

FricFrac · 06-17-2009, 05:57 PM

Interesting what the designer of the 370Z says about the Z and how its powered

"His love of the Z’s iconic design comes through in his voice. He owns a 1977 280Z “and every time I drive it, people young or old say, hey, I love your car. It has the cult following, and it’s a very special car in its way. With the gas crunch, all the manufacturers are pushing for zero emissions, electric power, different ways of powering a vehicle. Maybe it’ll be powered in a different way, but the Z has such a huge following, it’ll always be around and always have a receptive audience. It’s a balance of performance, design and value, and you can’t go wrong with that"

ZKindaGuy · 06-17-2009, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moondoggy

After being around 50+ years I've been able to see the evolution and devolution of the Muscle Car and Sports Car. With the fall of GM and Chrysler and the rising cost of gas I suspect that we are at the end of the line for such cars. Only the rich will be able to indulge in performance cars. When I was a youngster I used to see all those old fellows driving Hemi's, Vett's,Big Block Chevy and Fords and wondered If I would ever be able to afford a car with such performance. Well I'm old to do so and glad I lived long enough to finally have a car That I wanted as a Kid. There is so much magic in the internal combustion engine that no hybrid or electric car can ever produce. I also believe that this will be the last generation of the Z once it's product life cycle is through.

The one thing I learned in the 55 years I have lived...in regards to anything that is being poo-pooed by the majority population, the media or the government....if you lie down to those pundits then the tide will certainly swing in that direction and what you once enjoyed will end for you. However if people would just stop being so damn apathetic and fight back then there is a good chance the era won't come to an end.

The problem is that the minority who enjoy the "era" things think they if they make their own individual voice heard and cry out loudly against the majority then they will be dooming themselves to being targeted for redicule and even attack by the majority.

Well so what???!! It has been this way since the beginning of time. But history has proven the loudest and strongest are not necessilary the majority. So quit putting your head between your legs and start getting involved in those efforts that exist to counter the pundits. And if no efforts exist then start one of your own grassroots style.

Lets face it..do you actualy think that this country came about as a result of our forefathers outnumbering the Brits?

dad · 06-18-2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZKindaGuy

The one thing I learned in the 55 years I have lived...in regards to anything that is being poo-pooed by the majority population, the media or the government....if you lie down to those pundits then the tide will certainly swing in that direction and what you once enjoyed will end for you. However if people would just stop being so damn apathetic and fight back then there is a good chance the era won't come to an end.

The problem is that the minority who enjoy the "era" things think they if they make their own individual voice heard and cry out loudly against the majority then they will be dooming themselves to being targeted for redicule and even attack by the majority.

Well so what???!! It has been this way since the beginning of time. But history has proven the loudest and strongest are not necessilary the majority. So quit putting your head between your legs and start getting involved in those efforts that exist to counter the pundits. And if no efforts exist then start one of your own grassroots style.

Lets face it..do you actualy think that this country came about as a result of our forefathers outnumbering the Brits?

OldGuy · 03-09-2010, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZKindaGuy

The one thing I learned in the 55 years I have lived...in regards to anything that is being poo-pooed by the majority population, the media or the government....if you lie down to those pundits then the tide will certainly swing in that direction and what you once enjoyed will end for you. However if people would just stop being so damn apathetic and fight back then there is a good chance the era won't come to an end.

The problem is that the minority who enjoy the "era" things think they if they make their own individual voice heard and cry out loudly against the majority then they will be dooming themselves to being targeted for redicule and even attack by the majority.

Well so what???!! It has been this way since the beginning of time. But history has proven the loudest and strongest are not necessilary the majority. So quit putting your head between your legs and start getting involved in those efforts that exist to counter the pundits. And if no efforts exist then start one of your own grassroots style.

Lets face it..do you actualy think that this country came about as a result of our forefathers outnumbering the Brits?

Come with me and have some "Tea," if you get my drift!

JB1 · 06-17-2009, 10:20 PM

OK, excuse me for getting back tot topic: "Era of the Muscle Car is over?". I don't think it is. The only difference will be: forced induction over "cubic inches". We already see it with the 370Z, 330hp from a high revving 3.7L compared to Fords 210 HP from a 4.0L?. Next step will be forced induction... Look at what is going on in Europe. VW for example, a 1.4 with turbo replaces a 1.8 N/A. (both 125 hp). Next generation BMW M3 will be turbocharged... Or look at Ford Eco boost, twin turbo V6 instead of a V8. So the muscle car will live on, just with less capacity :-)

cstr_Cali · 06-19-2009, 05:15 PM

Didn't read through all the posts in this thread so forgive me if I say anything that's already been said.

If the end of the muscle car era means no more dated, overweight, poorly engineered and designed RWD "pony" cars then that is fine by me. In my eyes the current muscle car crop defines what's wrong with the domestic auto industry: wrong product at the wrong time dated in the past. Take the new Camaro for instance...it's HUGE compared to the Z and weighs what I imagine to be several hundred more pounds. At the least the Z appears to have been designed with the foresight of changing environmental conditions that produce concerns for what and how we drive, and to boot changing consumer tastes influenced by this awareness. Granted the Z does not have miserly fuel economy you'll fare better than in a Camaro SS, albeit not by much. Even something as superfical as physical presence is enough to convince the average consumer in a time where fuel economy is of great concern whether or not to buy one car over the other, because lets face it "downsizing" is the new trend in the automotive market.

Muscle cars don't have to die they just have to change. New sources and ways of developing and harnessing power must be realized and utilized if these cars are not only to survive but become more efficent, which is the guiding principle for the entire auto industy moving forward. This means smaller engines, lighter build materials and other innovative technologies geared towards increasing efficency. And while the electric car is a great idea it's got a long ways before it becomes truly viable. There are still issues of cost and even efficency before the electic car can truly become some sort of panacea for the global auto industry. Fear not the combustion engine is here to stay.

ZKindaGuy · 06-20-2009, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstr_Cali

If the end of the muscle car era means no more dated, overweight, poorly engineered and designed RWD "pony" cars then that is fine by me. In my eyes the current muscle car crop defines what's wrong with the domestic auto industry... .

Overweight....agree.

Dated....Disagree. The muscle cars are not dated. They are a second muscle-car generation and possess contemporary design and styling. And they are exacly what saved Ford and doomed GM and Dodge only because they did not jump in on the 2nd-gen MC era quick enough.

Poorley engineered....Disagree. A person is more likely to walk away from a race crash alive in one of those "poorly engineered" cars than in the new epxerimentally "green" crackerboxes that are on the market today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstr_Cali

Muscle cars don't have to die they just have to change....Agree

FricFrac · 06-18-2009, 01:38 AM

Wow - if this does go to production and it turns out the numbers Nissan is claiming this will be a Historical marker in automotove history. It will just like when Nissan brought Japanese sports cars (and really the whole Japanese auto market) to the lime light in North America (and the rest of the world) with the 1970 240Z...

Zsteve · 03-09-2010, 02:36 PM

The green cars are a fad for the most part (wait till they are hit in one), the new muscle car is now the sports muscle car that will be 4 and 6 cyl turbos for the most part that get good hp and good mpg. Just look at how many turbo charged 4 cyl and 6 cyl cars there are now compared to about 5 yrs ago. IMO you get the best of both sides except maybe the size of the car.

gumpy · 03-09-2010, 03:56 PM

I fear that the petrol rwd manual cars are going to become harder and harder to come across. Esp ones with smooth v6's and v8's... Don't sell the 370z, the next iteration may well be hybrid only... =( I hope it isn't but you just don't know... esp if the petrol prices mega spike in the next economic boom... expected in 2012-2014 period.

Also it would be prudent for people of this forum who plan to never sell the z to get some oil stocks of some sort to hedge the expected movement in energy commodities.

06-17-2009, 01:34 AM	#2 (permalink)
Mental Block Base Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 94 Drives: '03 Redline 350Z Rep Power: 18	Al Gore invented the internet. I'd really consider listening to what he has to say. __________________ Mental Block - '03 Redline 350Z

06-17-2009, 10:02 AM	#5 (permalink)
CrownR426 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: South Korea Posts: 4,676 Drives: Manual Rep Power: 849	I hope muscle cars don't fade away. Who else will we depend on to bother us on the highways? __________________ Love + Hardwork + Passion RIP SVTRacer

06-19-2009, 05:15 PM	#11 (permalink)
cstr_Cali Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 347 Drives: smoke grey Rep Power: 574	Didn't read through all the posts in this thread so forgive me if I say anything that's already been said. If the end of the muscle car era means no more dated, overweight, poorly engineered and designed RWD "pony" cars then that is fine by me. In my eyes the current muscle car crop defines what's wrong with the domestic auto industry: wrong product at the wrong time dated in the past. Take the new Camaro for instance...it's HUGE compared to the Z and weighs what I imagine to be several hundred more pounds. At the least the Z appears to have been designed with the foresight of changing environmental conditions that produce concerns for what and how we drive, and to boot changing consumer tastes influenced by this awareness. Granted the Z does not have miserly fuel economy you'll fare better than in a Camaro SS, albeit not by much. Even something as superfical as physical presence is enough to convince the average consumer in a time where fuel economy is of great concern whether or not to buy one car over the other, because lets face it "downsizing" is the new trend in the automotive market. Muscle cars don't have to die they just have to change. New sources and ways of developing and harnessing power must be realized and utilized if these cars are not only to survive but become more efficent, which is the guiding principle for the entire auto industy moving forward. This means smaller engines, lighter build materials and other innovative technologies geared towards increasing efficency. And while the electric car is a great idea it's got a long ways before it becomes truly viable. There are still issues of cost and even efficency before the electic car can truly become some sort of panacea for the global auto industry. Fear not the combustion engine is here to stay. __________________ Waiting to see if she fits. Fingers crossed.

03-09-2010, 02:36 PM	#14 (permalink)
Zsteve A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: TX Posts: 3,298 Drives: the 2 balled club Rep Power: 23	The green cars are a fad for the most part (wait till they are hit in one), the new muscle car is now the sports muscle car that will be 4 and 6 cyl turbos for the most part that get good hp and good mpg. Just look at how many turbo charged 4 cyl and 6 cyl cars there are now compared to about 5 yrs ago. IMO you get the best of both sides except maybe the size of the car. __________________ 2010 LS3 C6 Silver coupe corvette

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Buick Muscle an article I saw today in the papers	nogoodname	Other Vehicles	10	12-17-2008 09:24 AM

06-17-2009, 09:54 AM	#4 (permalink)
Mergnthwirker Base Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Connecticut USA Posts: 243 Drives: '09 370Z PW MT6 S Rep Power: 17	I've been watching the development of the Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems used in Formula 1 racing this year. Next year the system will be mandated for all teams. The system adds weight (battery, electronics, motors) but provides short bursts of 80HP at the driver's control. Kinda like hitting the "nitrous" button! I'd like to see more motor racing organizations mandating the use of hybrid technology. In fact, I'd love to see a series such as Indy racing adopt ruling so there are no restrictions at all on the technology, but an absolute cap on the amount of fuel that can be used. OK folks, here's the Indy 500. Every competitor is limited to 50 gallons of fuel. Good luck! Gentleman (and ladies), start your engines!

06-17-2009, 05:57 PM	#6 (permalink)
FricFrac A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Victoria, BC Posts: 1,481 Drives: 370Z 300ZX 280ZX 240 Rep Power: 230	Interesting what the designer of the 370Z says about the Z and how its powered "His love of the Z’s iconic design comes through in his voice. He owns a 1977 280Z “and every time I drive it, people young or old say, hey, I love your car. It has the cult following, and it’s a very special car in its way. With the gas crunch, all the manufacturers are pushing for zero emissions, electric power, different ways of powering a vehicle. Maybe it’ll be powered in a different way, but the Z has such a huge following, it’ll always be around and always have a receptive audience. It’s a balance of performance, design and value, and you can’t go wrong with that"

06-17-2009, 10:20 PM	#10 (permalink)
JB1 Track Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 748 Drives: 09 Nissan 370Z sold Rep Power: 19	OK, excuse me for getting back tot topic: "Era of the Muscle Car is over?". I don't think it is. The only difference will be: forced induction over "cubic inches". We already see it with the 370Z, 330hp from a high revving 3.7L compared to Fords 210 HP from a 4.0L?. Next step will be forced induction... Look at what is going on in Europe. VW for example, a 1.4 with turbo replaces a 1.8 N/A. (both 125 hp). Next generation BMW M3 will be turbocharged... Or look at Ford Eco boost, twin turbo V6 instead of a V8. So the muscle car will live on, just with less capacity :-)

06-18-2009, 01:38 AM	#13 (permalink)
FricFrac A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Victoria, BC Posts: 1,481 Drives: 370Z 300ZX 280ZX 240 Rep Power: 230	Wow - if this does go to production and it turns out the numbers Nissan is claiming this will be a Historical marker in automotove history. It will just like when Nissan brought Japanese sports cars (and really the whole Japanese auto market) to the lime light in North America (and the rest of the world) with the 1970 240Z...

03-09-2010, 03:56 PM	#15 (permalink)
gumpy Enthusiast Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Sydney Posts: 449 Drives: 09 370z white manual Rep Power: 17	I fear that the petrol rwd manual cars are going to become harder and harder to come across. Esp ones with smooth v6's and v8's... Don't sell the 370z, the next iteration may well be hybrid only... =( I hope it isn't but you just don't know... esp if the petrol prices mega spike in the next economic boom... expected in 2012-2014 period. Also it would be prudent for people of this forum who plan to never sell the z to get some oil stocks of some sort to hedge the expected movement in energy commodities.