well, i can take care of the drunk part. mother nature is taking care of the blizzard. Now it's up to you to take care of getting me the BJ from megan fox part, and I'll be happy to test your theory :happydance:

And we're trying to figure out the best daily driver car. The point was that a less powerful car is easier and friendlier to drive on the streets than a more powerful car. i.e. a 370z would be easier to drive on the street than a z06 because less chances of power oversteer.

better balance + better handling = better daily driver?:confused:



if you are fretting accidental power oversteer, you shouldn't be trusted with pointy objects, much less a car

Probably due to the fact that a lot of people who have wrecked their Z are new to RWD cars. That and simply driving over their heads. VDC...is turned off each time I start the car but that is my preference sun/rain I have never ran into any issues, the Z is a very balanced car so there's no issue with the Z itself.
Also, the Z is so smooth that I'd bet that a lot of people simply did not realize how fast they were going and ended up in a situation which caused them to wreck. I do think that traction control on cars is a good idea since it will help drivers who well...how do I say it nicely...simply can't drive!

Of course, I am talking single driver incidents. The Z is fast enough to get you into trouble if you don't know what you're doing.

A totally controllable "wiggle" in a forward-biased car is not instability under braking. Try hard braking on a car with a lot of rear weight and then come back and talk about braking instability!

None of the above. It's called Shit happens.

really? i thought this thread was actually about why so many people crash their Zs.

lets face it... none of this talk about handling,brake or weight bias, engine placement, horsepower etc really matters or is relevant to this thread. someone who will crash their g35 coupe into a tree would do the same thing in any car, it really doesn't matter. none of this talk about how a car behaves at the brink has anything to do with avoiding accidents. None of the people who post threads about crashing their Z did so at the track. Accidents happen because of a bad sequence of events and/or poor judgement. as far as single car accidents... its usually more the latter, and having more power and a more tail happy car doesn't help, but that has nothing to do with a car being a good daily driver.

if you really want the BEST Daily driver car, its probably going to be something in the 200-350hp range with awd. none of the cars we are talking about in this thread are really daily driver cars. Yes, you can drive them every day, but they aren't meant to get you to work rain or shine.

Get a tricycle... call it a day.

But it might wiggle when he tries to brake.

Wtf? When did that happen? :icon14:

I thought we were talking about balance and handling? No wait, we were talking about whether to drive a Z06 or 370Z in the snow. Nah, we were talking about weight distribution and hard braking in the snow. Wrong again, we were trying to get Steve to say he wouldn't drive a Viper in the snow. Actually I meant to say that we're proving why the Corolla has less HP/TQ at full throttle than a Viper at idle. Actually, we were talking about rear ends wiggling and getting a BJ from Megan Fox.

Oh wait, I see it now. We were OBVIOUSLY trying to figure out the best daily driver car this whole time. How could I be so stupid and not see it earlier. :facepalm:

theres no rear brakes in a tricycle.... :rolleyes:

:facepalm: Do you realize the context of this thread? The OP is talking about daily driving on the street, not on the track. Balance and handling in this context is not taking a corner at 1 g and clipping the apex. It's things like emergency lane change manoeuver, emergency braking, taking sharp right angle corners on rain, dust, or even snow covered roads, ease of driving even when the driver is not focused 100%, etc. Yes, power oversteer is a concern when driving on the street. Everyone says it can be managed with an experienced driver, and yes that's true. But the point is still it's more difficult to manage a more powerful car than a less powerful car as a daily driver.

We're a small community. The accident count is amplified by our low numbers on the road. Let's say 20,000 out of 200,000 camaros have been in an accident. That's 10% of all camaros.
But 3000 out of 30000 Z had accidents. Though the ratio of accidents is the same. The impact is felt greater from the lower numbers. So 180k people haven't gotten into accidents vs only 27k Z's that haven't gotten into accidents. Its a play on numbers. People are getting into accidents because there a lot of stupid drivers on the road.
Don't even think about it. Before I got my first Z I was scared of the same crap. And I was scared I would get in a wreck based on the car. You know what happened. I got into my first wreck ever in over 20 years of driving. But all this forum reading made me nervous over it and boom. Bad karma. Now I just don't even give a sh1t just like before. And lifes good.

I never mentioned a lot of rear weight. Obviously rear weight bias is also undesirable. My point was that a near 50/50 weight balance is better under braking in low traction condition than a very front-heavy car.

better "balance" and "handling" do not translate to better street manners. You are using the wrong words if you are trying to talk about the car's response to road situations.

Maybe for a driver with limited RWD experience.

Please expand on your logic here.

Well if that was your point you didn't do a very good job arguing it initially.

I still like to go back to what started this all, which is the fact that I was dumbfounded by your claim to be able to assess the superiority of one RWD car when you have never, ever, ever driven another RWD car in your life. It just doesn't make any sense.

This thread is full of awesome. I am in the middle of Afghanistan laughing my A$$ off and the guys in the tent/shelter with me are wondering WTF is wrong with me. You guys my my deployment better just now!

I get what he's trying to say, but it is a moot point unless we actually have real numbers to compare. And then the only way to compare is as a % of ownership, so total units doesn't really matter.

:usa: Stay safe bro :tup:

If the 'situation' you are in really requires you to have a high performance sports car to avoid an accident, you really need to be paying more attention. the handling characteristcs of your car shouldn't play into your ability to avoid an accident. for gods sake... pay attention. the 370z's handling/braking abilities that it has over a, corolla, are not enough to save you in a bad situation. Sports cars don't handle and brake well to avoid accidents.

with your logic, any fast accelerating car is designed to out run a runaway truck, brake before hitting children as you speed through a school zone, and able to swerve to avoid hitting cute puppies.

what is the most powerful car you have driven?

partially true. the point though was the OP was originally concerned if there were any sinister handling characteristics of the 370z that lead to so many people crashing them. i told him that there isn't anything to worry about and the z might even be easier and friendlier to drive than a z06. That is the statement that triggered the whole back and forth going on right now :shakes head:

ok, if semantics are bothing you so much, lets call it "street manners" :rolleyes:

Its down to the driver. If you can drive and are comfortable behind the wheel of your car everything will be fine. I drove my Z home yesterday in the pouring rain and at a pace faster than all the other people on the road. I got home safe and the car is in one piece. Pretty much the only way that situation has a dif outcome is if some other a hole, not in control of his vehicle, hit me.

nope, it was this one:

agreed. There does seem to be a perception based on this forum that 370z are getting into wrecks more often than normal. Maybe its true or maybe it's just an artifact of the low number of Z's already on the road like Unknown said. The only way we'll know is if we can access statistics about accident rates. Insurance companies I think might have this kind of data. How can it be accessed?

you didn't say 'might.' you said it as if it was fact. then we all became aware that you never have driven a z06, nor have you driven any other RWD cars. that's what started this all Mr. Expert.

Dude, I live by that statement...............

Well at least now you get my point. And I didn't talk about superiority. I wanted to talk about "street manners" (to borrow a word from red). Basically a z will be easier to handle on the street than a corvette because it has better "street manners",

I just went back and reread what I wrote and I think you misunderstood me. What I meant to convey was that your confidence is just so damn sexy! :yum:

How can you even make that claim when you have no experience? That's the point. And you've been dancing around it like nobody's business.

This thread is serious business... PM me for fun. :ugh2:


No really, PM me...

way to go putting all sorts of words in my mouth. Where did i ever say any of this? :ugh2:

:bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl:

Most insurance companies are pretty tight-lipped with it since it is proprietary and gives a window into their strategy. IIHS might be your best bet.


HLDI: Insurance losses by make and model


Take from that what you will.

Ok, I will change my statement to "might" instead of "will". Happy now?

what are those numbers? total claims? based on that table alone, it seems the GT-R is a collision magnet :ugh2:

"Loss results are stated in relative terms (100 represents the average result for all vehicles in each loss coverage category). Colors indicate results in relation to the average for all vehicles:"

What is the "average" though? Average sports car, or average of everything with 4 wheels on the road? The numbers seem to indicate the Z is much worse than average. Same with almost every other sports car there. Most are in the red or dark red. For some bizzare reason coupes seem to do worse than convertibles of the same car. And FWIW based on those stats, the miata is the safest sports car to buy :icon14:

it's relative to other sports cars.

convertibles tend to have lower loss rates because of the type of owner that is attracted to them