What do the new CAFE standards mean for the Z?

2bits · 05-21-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlashBazbo

You forget basic history (or maybe you're too young to have lived it). When current CAFE standards were first introduced, they DID eliminate cars like the Viper, Z06, GT-R, etc. No legal high performance car survived in the U.S. They killed Challenger, Barracuda, Z-28, Mustang (the horrid Mustang II was a CAFE special), Road Runner, GTO, Marauder, Cougar -- those very few performance cars that survived did so only by losing the performance. Raising the CAFE took us through a dark automotive age and it took over twenty years for technology to catch up and give us performance cars on the same level as we had before. During those dark years from the mid-70's, a 200-hp Corvette was considered a BIG deal just two years after they offered several Vette engines of over 400 hp.

It is utterly unrealistic to think moving to a 39 mpg CAFE won't have a radical impact on the offerings of the industry. Just within the last six months, the CAFE zealots at EPA and NHTSA have published documents saying that a 36 mpg standard was technologically infeasible by 2016. If those in government who want it most think it won't work . . . .

I haven't forgotten history. We've had CAFE standards increase over the past 35 years. You choose to focus on the initial shock in the 70's, then extrapolate out that horror to today and well beyond. You ignore the fact that today WE DO HAVE the cars I cited despite the highest CAFE standards ever. You've just flat out lost your perspective.

My original point remains. Yes, things will advance and change as they always have. The Z will ever evolve, and Nissan will pump up mileage on the commodity models to reach the required average. Big deal. Can we stop the hyperbole now?

ChrisSlicks · 05-21-2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2bits

I haven't forgotten history. We've had CAFE standards increase over the past 35 years. You choose to focus on the initial shock in the 70's, then extrapolate out that horror to today and well beyond. You ignore the fact that today WE DO HAVE the cars I cited despite the highest CAFE standards ever. You've just flat out lost your perspective.

My original point remains. Yes, things will advance and change as they always have. The Z will ever evolve, and Nissan will pump up mileage on the commodity models to reach the required average. Big deal. Can we stop the hyperbole now?

Agreed. Nissan sells 1 million cars a year (well they used to) in which to make their average. They can afford to have a few cars under the average if they are low volume. The high volume economy cars will bring the average up.

jakoye · 05-21-2009, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2bits

I haven't forgotten history. We've had CAFE standards increase over the past 35 years. You choose to focus on the initial shock in the 70's, then extrapolate out that horror to today and well beyond. You ignore the fact that today WE DO HAVE the cars I cited despite the highest CAFE standards ever. You've just flat out lost your perspective.

My original point remains. Yes, things will advance and change as they always have. The Z will ever evolve, and Nissan will pump up mileage on the commodity models to reach the required average. Big deal. Can we stop the hyperbole now?

Except... CAFE standards haven't risen for passenger cars since 1990, when they reached their present level of 27.5.

Having that raised to 39 mpg in 7 years... that's pretty significant when it hasn't risen in nearly 20 years.

I'd say being worried that a 40% increase in the CAFE standards in the next 7 years might adversely affect the Z is not hyperbole at all.

2bits · 05-22-2009, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakoye

Except... CAFE standards haven't risen for passenger cars since 1990, when they reached their present level of 27.5.

Having that raised to 39 mpg in 7 years... that's pretty significant when it hasn't risen in nearly 20 years.

I'd say being worried that a 40% increase in the CAFE standards in the next 7 years might adversely affect the Z is not hyperbole at all.

Your first point is good, but it doesn't change mine either. Lol, how important is the Z to reaching that 39 mpg avg considering it's production #'s and % volume for Nissan? The commodity models will drive the mpg average as they always have.

Your second point is not so good. Marquee models with their accompanying lower mpg are a reality for most manufactures because they don't sell that many of them. If Nissan sold 50k+ Z's, you'd be right. But they don't. Hyperbole and hysteria in this thread? Yes.

jakoye · 05-22-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2bits

Your first point is good, but it doesn't change mine either. Lol, how important is the Z to reaching that 39 mpg avg considering it's production #'s and % volume for Nissan? The commodity models will drive the mpg average as they always have.

Your second point is not so good. Marquee models with their accompanying lower mpg are a reality for most manufactures because they don't sell that many of them. If Nissan sold 50k+ Z's, you'd be right. But they don't. Hyperbole and hysteria in this thread? Yes.

We will agree to disagree then.

I think the abrupt increases in the MPG standards *will* affect the Z's design. Sure, it's not a huge seller or a huge percentage of Nissan's US sales, but having a car that is currently 16 or 17 MPG under the standard that will be law in 7 short years will call for some fairly significant engineering.

And besides, with a 39 mpg standard, Nissan is gonna have to sell a good number of cars that EXCEED that level in order to make up for the Z and all its other low MPG cars. How many Nissan models get more than 39 mpg? I can't think of any.

The Z may be especially vulnerable simply because Nissan is a smaller car company that may not have the capital to so radically re-engineer their product line. The easiest way for them to meet the standards will be to eliminate low-mileage cars like the Z from their lineup entirely.

It may be pessimistic, but this is truly the way I see it going down.