New Car and Driver review of the 370z... oil temp fail!

ImportConvert · 09-09-2011, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

270 is not bad, but the Z06 has a dry sump with a ton of oil and an oil cooler. The stock C6 does not have an oil cooler, and will regularly see temps well beyond 300F on track. Push it really hard for 25 minutes and you can hit overheat limp mode (from water temp not oil), but at least it gets that far. I've seen several LS engines come apart from track abuse, most typical failure is spun rod bearings but I've seen catastrophic failures as well. Bottom line is if you track, make sure you have adequate cooling, that is if your car wasn't already track ready like the Z06 *cough* Nismo.

That 273* was a warm-up lap and 1 hot-lap on the 2.2 mile course. It was 101* ambient according to the vehicle display by the the A/C (which is on the whole time in all the cars, day after day, mile after mile.)

Bearing material is bearing material and synthetic oil is synthetic oil, by and large.

220-240* oil temps from driving your car spiritedly or in traffic are nothing to whine about. I fully agree/understand the complaints from those hitting limp mode at the track, but people who just randomly pick a temperature to start bitching at...wtf?

rangercarol · 09-09-2011, 09:42 PM

I read that C & D article and was also disappointed with the results. But, being pragmatic, It seems unlikely I will ever suffer brake fade or high oil temp with the low-key driving style of my wife and I.

Having said that, it still disturbs me that my 2000 Ranger truck with a 4.0L engine has, not only an oil cooler, it also has a transmission fluid cooler. This is no sophisticated, high-end vehicle; it cost way less than half the price of a Z. Tell me again why Nissan can't afford to include an oil cooler?

Ranger

ImportConvert · 09-09-2011, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rangercarol

I read that C & D article and was also disappointed with the results. But, being pragmatic, It seems unlikely I will ever suffer brake fade or high oil temp with the low-key driving style of my wife and I.

Having said that, it still disturbs me that my 2000 Ranger truck with a 4.0L engine has, not only an oil cooler, it also has a transmission fluid cooler. This is no sophisticated, high-end vehicle; it cost way less than half the price of a Z. Tell me again why Nissan can't afford to include an oil cooler?

Ranger

Just a guess, but they are using the lack of an oil-cooler as a breaker switch for other systems on the car, figuring that it will hit limp mode before other things are worn out from track-use/spirited driving. I'm not basing that on anything substantial, just a guess.

PapoZalsa · 09-09-2011, 09:54 PM

Red__Zed · 09-09-2011, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

I'm still LOL'ing at you all. We got the Z06's up to about 270* thrashing 'em at Spring Mountain this week and it handled it just fine. 100* ambient temperature, hours on the track, the cars are run 12-14 thousand miles and then sold with a disclosure. They have NEVER had ONE SINGLE engine failure at Spring Mountain. They run 5-30 Mobil 1 just like what comes in the cars.

I HIGHLY doubt Nissan's engines are much more susceptible to breaking down at high temperature than GM's small-block V8 pushrod engines.

You all need to just get over it until you actually break something. I posted a thread a few weeks ago about it and this board was so butthurt about the concept that NOONE HAS EVER broken a 370Z engine because of oil temps that the thread was deleted as I don't see it anymore. Jesus. All most of you want to do is whine and that totally proved it. You are never going to listen to reason, logic, or look at the evidence. You just want to run your cockholsters about what you THINK is a problem. Just sell the car. Your whining even made it into Consumer Reports and now the 370Z has a nice big black circle for power-train reliability or cooling or some such, lol.

UNLESS you are hitting limp mode on the track and it is hampering your ability to enjoy the car, it is not ONE BIT of an issue except for what you are turning it into.

All that aside, does Nissan have an engine-oil life monitor? It won't steer you wrong if you stick with OEM oil and have a good air-filter that is PROPERLY sealed in the air-box (many oil-life monitors don't monitor contaminants, although I believe Mercedes does). If not, I would indeed suggest what others are saying with the UAO's and you might decide to change the oil earlier than otherwise if you do beat on it in the heat. That is just good common sense and PM for your tools.

Sorry for being a bit rough in this post, but this oil-temp thing, I have come to learn, is completely ridiculous unless it is holding you back on the track. Whining about 220* oil temps during daily driving? Really?

I mostly agree, but I think the oil temps definitely merit paying more attention to UOA's. I've seen a lot of guys that hit 240s in normal highway driving....which means I'd start to get concerned with spirited driving.

While it is true that modern oils are good up to higher temps, they still aren't intended to be run long term at high temps. Oil gets changed after a day at the track....more than 3000 miles on 240-260* oil may not be the best call-- which is why getting UOA's done regularly is really important on a car like the Z. My first one on the Ester oil showed that it was broken down after about 1200 miles (when I did my first change). I've run GC since, and it's been great...except one oil change where I ran Ester again....and again, broken down in under 2000 miles. So while most people are blowing certain concerns out of proportions, there is also an element of concern for how the oil is actually holding up. There's a lot of hand-waving and claims that "modern oil is fine to 300*"-- but it is more complex than that, and requires actually paying attention to the way the oil is holding up.

BTW, no oil life indicator on the 370z.

Red__Zed · 09-09-2011, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Just a guess, but they are using the lack of an oil-cooler as a breaker switch for other systems on the car, figuring that it will hit limp mode before other things are worn out from track-use/spirited driving. I'm not basing that on anything substantial, just a guess.

most likely the case.

11Thumper · 09-09-2011, 10:09 PM

I'm pretty sure it's not too uncommon for cars to run oil temps around 220-230 under normal operation. Heck, the VW VR6 did all the time.

cossie1600 · 09-09-2011, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

270 is not bad, but the Z06 has a dry sump with a ton of oil and an oil cooler. The stock C6 does not have an oil cooler, and will regularly see temps well beyond 300F on track. Push it really hard for 25 minutes and you can hit overheat limp mode (from water temp not oil), but at least it gets that far. I've seen several LS engines come apart from track abuse, most typical failure is spun rod bearings but I've seen catastrophic failures as well. Bottom line is if you track, make sure you have adequate cooling, that is if your car wasn't already track ready like the Z06 *cough* Nismo.

My C6 Z51 had a factory oil cooler. It runs 205F cruising, temp was around 240-280 at the track, depending on how much revs you use. Also do fast guys really run flat out 25 minutes straight, not even a lap of cooling down? Jesus, I thought only rookies do that.

ImportConvert · 09-09-2011, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

My C6 Z51 had a factory oil cooler. It runs 205F cruising, temp was around 240-280 at the track, depending on how much revs you use. Also do fast guys really run flat out 25 minutes straight, not even a lap of cooling down? Jesus, I thought only rookies do that.

We all did cool-down laps, but 12-14K miles of TRACK use on these cars...NEVER an engine failure...

Lug · 09-09-2011, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Just a guess, but they are using the lack of an oil-cooler as a breaker switch for other systems on the car, figuring that it will hit limp mode before other things are worn out from track-use/spirited driving. I'm not basing that on anything substantial, just a guess.

Nissan used to use a trimetal formula in their bearings. They dropped lead (for environmental reasons) and later discovered that you can get excess wear if run for extended periods over 300 dregrees. That's why they use 280 as a cut off.

cossie1600 · 09-10-2011, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

We all did cool-down laps, but 12-14K miles of TRACK use on these cars...NEVER an engine failure...

I believe it. It's not good to run it too high for a long period of time and it sucks to hit limp mode, but people are joking to themselves if they think an occasional trip to the 250+ zone is going to kill the motor on the spot. It's so stupid. It's actually more stupid than the guys complaining how the car is not track ready when they don't even go on the track.

ImportConvert · 09-10-2011, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

I believe it. It's not good to run it too high for a long period of time and it sucks to hit limp mode, but people are joking to themselves if they think an occasional trip to the 250+ zone is going to kill the motor on the spot. It's so stupid. It's actually more stupid than the guys complaining how the car is not track ready when they don't even go on the track.

99% of people themselves are not track ready. I learned that first hand when I saw how much more my Z06 had to offer than what I could do with it, even after 2 full days of instruction, I was running the car to maybe 50% of its potential. All the smears on the walls also indicated that others SHOULD have run the car at 50% of its potential. All the smears belonged to club-members (not students). One of which, was a very nice ZR1 blue.

Not one student could keep up with the instructors at Spring Mountain in a ZR1...while they drove stock Camaro SS's on PS2 tires, lol.

ChrisSlicks · 09-10-2011, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

My C6 Z51 had a factory oil cooler. It runs 205F cruising, temp was around 240-280 at the track, depending on how much revs you use. Also do fast guys really run flat out 25 minutes straight, not even a lap of cooling down? Jesus, I thought only rookies do that.

Yes the Z51 has a cooler, base does not.

The cool down lap comes after you get the checker flag

Even with a cool down lap here or there the heat build up just becomes too much to dissipate in a single lap, we do it but it is only momentary relief. The cars probably get pushed the hardest when you start red misting trying to catch someone in front of you as you start focusing exclusively on driving and forget to look at gauges.

Methodical4u · 09-10-2011, 10:40 AM

I just picked up this magazine today.. I think that the Z did very well with basically the brakes and the oil temp being their biggest complaint.

KillerBee370 · 09-10-2011, 11:23 AM

Whaaaaaatever

An oil cooler and different pads and I do just fine at the track.

09-09-2011, 09:42 PM	#212 (permalink)
rangercarol Base Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: McCormick, SC Age: 83 Posts: 56 Drives: 2011 370z Cherry 6m Rep Power: 3369	Car & Driver & oil Temp I read that C & D article and was also disappointed with the results. But, being pragmatic, It seems unlikely I will ever suffer brake fade or high oil temp with the low-key driving style of my wife and I. Having said that, it still disturbs me that my 2000 Ranger truck with a 4.0L engine has, not only an oil cooler, it also has a transmission fluid cooler. This is no sophisticated, high-end vehicle; it cost way less than half the price of a Z. Tell me again why Nissan can't afford to include an oil cooler? Ranger

09-09-2011, 09:54 PM	#214 (permalink)
PapoZalsa A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Not in Sunny Florida Posts: 6,358 Drives: 16 Nismo w/Tech Pack Rep Power: 4499	__________________ 2009 370Z MB Base w/Sport Package 6MT Modshack's Custom Air Intakes /3M Clear Bra/ Illuminated Kick Plates / F. I CBE w/12" resonators / EVO-R Front Lip / Rear Hatch Wing / Tein S-Tech Springs /Ilegal Tint in the Rep. of VA/4x20mm Z1 Spacers/ Vinyl Roof/Liquid Carbon Designs

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09-09-2011, 10:09 PM	#217 (permalink)
11Thumper Track Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 754 Drives: '11 370Z, '01 S2k Rep Power: 17	I'm pretty sure it's not too uncommon for cars to run oil temps around 220-230 under normal operation. Heck, the VW VR6 did all the time.

09-10-2011, 10:40 AM	#224 (permalink)
Methodical4u A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,393 Drives: 11 370 6mt pw w/sp Rep Power: 15	I just picked up this magazine today.. I think that the Z did very well with basically the brakes and the oil temp being their biggest complaint.

09-10-2011, 11:23 AM	#225 (permalink)
KillerBee370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: So Cal baby! Age: 51 Posts: 5,964 Drives: with passion Rep Power: 321	Whaaaaaatever An oil cooler and different pads and I do just fine at the track.