Gorgeous FD sir. You are making me miss mine. Mine was mostly stock, just had a KN drop in, Eibachs, Koni adjustables, plus an HKS exhaust. I loved her. Gave me zero issues. But alas, wife wanted a house 10 years ago, so I had to sell her to get 20% down for the house. ahhhhh those were the days.

I agree. Wasn't the shape designed, at least in concept, back in the late 80's?

Yeah it sits too tall and is squished front and rear. Fugly. Just my opinion. Overpriced too :(

honda needs to make a SH-AWD version of their accord coupe very badly. nothing sadder than seeing a lowered accord with wide tires front and rear (you'd think it's RWD) and suddenly their front tires screaaaach while taking off. :rofl2:

:iagree:

Yep, good point. I've always been a Honda fan myself but lately I'm not impressed with their product development direction. I'm loving Nissan now.

100 billion% agree. In fact, been talking to several folks about that lately. Even when talking to them/showing them our latest Honda's.... it's just not the same as they were, in both design, manufacturing, and quality standards. They've gotten lax and cheap IMO... like what happened to GM.

Nissan on the other hand, imo, is edgy and state of the art. They're designs scream, plus look at the Leaf beating the Volt out to market, plus their innovations are timely and simple. I mean, look at the SRM on our cars. Simple concept if you think about it.... but yet NO one implemented it on a manual tranny until now. Same thing with the push button start. It was a first on my 2007 Altima... not many manufacturer's had that in the main stream. Now everyone's doing it.

Prop's to Nissan. I just own a couple of Honda's because one I had for over 10 years, the other was out of necessity (minivan.... not getting toyota or Chrysler). But chances are, I won't be getting another Honda... a new one, at least.

Nissan appeals because they are targeting a niche market; they understand there's a few of us left who aren't ruled by MPG or Hybrid engines or the latest crap to spew out of the media. We want good looking cars, and we're willing to buy one at the right price. I guess that's why a lot of us are here with a Z.

FD...mmm, yes, still a great looking car. Too bad about the rotary engine. And honestly? I'd rather the FC.

Great points! :tiphat:

Although the S2000 came with push button start back in '00, however it still required a key. Kind of cool and lame at the same time. ;)

I think Honda is putting SRM in their Acura TL now. lol

I don't care if they're not under $70K. These are the sexiest of all time IMHO.

1. Bugatti Type 57 Atlantic
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...57Atlantic.jpg

2. Ferriar 250 GTO
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...rari250GTO.jpg

3. Jaguar E-Type
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...uar_E-type.jpg

I will agree and disagree. Every automaker out there has made some good decisions, and not so good. IMO Ford has made the best decisions lately. They are selling cars in amounts that other makers wish they were--and THAT is the goal of a company.

IC, not disagreeing with everything you said, but I think the GT-R's power is irrelevant. It's still blazing fast, and it can be modded for more power.

Personally, power matters very little to me in terms of performance. Look at what a Lotus Elise can do with a 190hp Celica engine. :tup:

Speaking of Lotus Elise, that's a sexy sexy car!

http://www.roadandtrack.com/var/ezfl...xige_lead1.jpg

I was referring to the 370Z's engine regarding power. The GT-R is an awesome performance machine. I have even considered buying a left-over '12 in '13, but the fact that I don't like Japanese cars is keeping me from it. Their thinking is backward from mine and I don't like that. I'm sure it's fine with many, but when I look at the suspension, etc. on a corvette, I think "Hey, I would have done that that way, too!" and when I look at the suspension on my Infiniti, I think "WTF is that for? All it does is make creaking noises!?!" Sadly, the dealership doesn't know, either. Meh. I just have a problem with the Japanese thinking when it comes to design. I'm sure they feel the same about American cars. I don't plan on working on my own car due to warranty issues until it is out of warranty, but I like to know that I could if I wanted to. When I look at a Japanese car, I feel like beyond basic maintenance and a brake job, I am lost.

As to the Elise, it's a tin can. Might as well say "Look what a Gixxer 1300 does with it's tiny engine!" Except the Gixxer is fast and the Elise is not. Power/weight is where it's at. However, the 370Z is a lot more portly than an Elise.

Sorry to argue, but I was out shooting the shotguns this morning and a few chiggers got ahold of my ankles and I have to take it out on someone. Oddly, Italian shotguns make more sense to me than American one's.

The new face-lift is even sexier I think.

Ah, I thought you were dogging the GTR's power numbers. Fair enough.

Lotus Elises are fast. Obviously not as fast as sport bikes :roflpuke2:, but awfully quick around a circuit!

Import....

the push buttons were apparent in other car back in 07, I know that.... I was just saying not many others were. GM had it in the vette yes, so did the S2000, sorta, and the Prius. I just thought it was cool in the Altima for a 2007. And most people did not know it had one.

As for the GTR, it's NOT a supercar to you? hmmm I think it is. But then again, it's just opinions for both of us. I think a car that goes 0-60 in 2.9 seconds (2012) and costs 90k, is a supercar. I like it, and Nissan has done great engineering to it to make it so. Now if only they made a manual tranny for it ;)

I think you totally misread his admittedly difficult to parse writing.

He is saying the GT-R is a supercar, and the 370Z as the top sportscar in the Nissan line-up is under powered.

And most people said the NSX was under powered for years, until one embarrassed them on a track (it was definitely under powered in the 2000's though).

It isn't about peak horsepower, it's about performance, and the 370Z was leading until the 2011 Mustang GT came out, and it is still pretty close, which the 350Z - 370Z update brought about.

I don't think a variable valve lift and timing throttle-less engine with a flat torque curve and 7500 RPM red line is out of date at all - add some direct injection and tuning, and it can beat the Mustang with just an engine and I/H/E mid-cycle facelift (though some more lightness would be nice).

Direct injection + more lightness for the 370Z = winning! :tup:

Ah ok ok... my bad. Yes, then we're all on the same page then. I agree.

Yeah, what IS up with our 370's not having direct injection? I figured Nissan would have done that already. Perhaps they're saving it for the 2012's or 2013's just to say they did something new? We'd be in the 350hp at the crank for sure.

That's what I was thinking. Would be a nice mid-cycle refresh for the 370Z. I think the new G37 that's coming out soon should give us a good idea of what is to come for the Z.

Not to nitpick or anything, but that is an Exige. :hello:

Depends on the circuit. If it's a short one, sure. If it's more of a longer one or the 'ring or something, they are pretty slow in my book. The mustang GT is quicker, and it's a muscle car. Also, the brakes are pretty pathetic. All-in-all, it's a raw experience and whatnot, but it's far from the performance powerhouse people make it out to be based on everything I have heard from those who actually own them. The car is mainly about fun. Not necessarily going fast.

AS to the GT-R, it's the opposite. It's all about going fast, and fun is a secondary consideration. (AWD, automatic, etc.)

The VQ makes 100whp less than the mustang does. Now you are talking about modifying it--even if done at the factory.

The Coyote (Ford's 5.0) is ready to go for DI. It was built with DI in mind. The VQ would then be behind by an even larger margin.

As to the GT-R, yes, you nailed what I was saying. The GT-R is not in the same class as the 370Z and it's a Halo car. That is like talking about the ZR1 and the Camaro SS or the Ford GT and the Ford mustang in the same sentence. They may share a couple of components at their basest level, but they really shouldn't be discussed together or taken as a representation of the brand.

No, the concept of the VQ is not out of date. The implementation of it is, though. Nissan needs to scrap the engine, and keep the knowledge gained from it. Just like GM did with the LS1 and Ford did with the 4.6L 2 and 3V engines. Great ideas, but they have a lot of room to be improved upon and reached the peak of their limitations without a re-do.

As to the NSX. Yeah, if my stock 150K mile Trans Am stomped one, it was underpowered for the money. It might have gotten around my old '95 F-body, but the beating wouldn't have been significant for sure. The NSX is like a supermodel with a great personality and a picture perfect smile that doesn't know how to make a sandwich.

:icon18:

the only sentence really worth reading...

and really, if she has those qualities.. shit, I can make her a sandwich

The NSX was a supercar when it first came out -- fastest ring lap for a production vehicle at the time. Further improvements to power were hindered during the '90s by Japan's 276 HP limit -- any Japanese car sold in the JDM could not exceed 276 HP. Given that situation during the 90s I'm guessing that not a lot of effort was put into making higher power engines. So when the update for the model finally came out, it was too little too late.

I would still rather have one of those than almost any American car made in the last 20 years.

that's not entirely true bro. The 3000GT VR-4, The Supra TT, the 300ZX TT, the Skyline GTR all made above 276..infact most of them had right around 320... minus the ZX.

You are right that there were exceptiions, but in general the manufacturers kept to their agreement. They had higher horsepower models built for their racing series. Also, there were some special "one-off" versions of some of the cars that exceeded this limit and sometimes the advertised horse power was at that limit, but the actual HP was greater.

Some of the models had "export" versions with higher horsepower -- Supra the mkIV is an example of this.

From wikipedia


Here's an except from the Nissan Skyline GT-R page on Wikipedia


See also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_domestic_market

^^ Good stuff.

I am sure you mean something other than what I am reading/hearing. What is nonsensical about a Remington 870 for instance?

it wasn't even a gentlemans agreement, that's more of a rumor, then truth. It was more about JGTC rulings with the GT300 class racing..

The JGTC or All-Japan Grand Touring Championship (I hate to say it, but if you've ever played Gran Turismo 2 or 3 then you'll recognize the name VERY quickly) is a prestigious race series in Japan, similar to our NASCAR in popularity. It was created in 1994 and it's governing body the GT-A has VERY strict rules/regulations. The JGTC is seperated into 2 classes the GT 500 & GT 300; the numbers designate the ROUGH hp limits for cars competing in those classes. Motor swaps are restricted to the same manufacturer and the car's body MUST be mostly stock and functional. Aero mods and suspension tweaks are the very limit of what is allowed, so in essence it is mostly stock VS stock, especially in the GT 300 class; are you beginning to see the picture?

While anything from Vipers to Ferraris to Lambos compete in the GT 500, the 300 is more homegrown. The cars that traditionally competed in the GT 300 class were the cream-of-the-crop of all of the Japanese auto manufacturers, and it's line-up consisted of cars like the Mazda FD-3S RX-7, the Mitsu 3000 GT (GTO) and after wards the EVO, the Nissan 300ZX & Skyline, the Honda NSX, the Toyota Supra, and a few others. Ok, now are you seeing a logical trend here?!?

The JDM manufacturers wanted each of their flagship cars to be able to compete against one another without engine modification within the limits of the GT 300 Class horsepower limitations, so they all "claimed" that none of their cars made over 280 hp at the crank (but most of them underrated their vehicle's capabilities, in essense they all cheated). What better way to advertise your flagship car and prove that yours is better than your competitors than by having your mostly stock sportscar kick theirs' *** in the most prestigious, most watched racing circuit in all of Japan?!? It also made it easier for a potential team/owner to field a GT 300 Class car instead of a 500 because it was much cheaper since no engine mods would be needed. That made the GT 300 more popular than the GT 500, although the "big brother" Class attracted fans of the exotics.

:tup:

troof brah! <3

^^ thanks for clarifying.

It sounds like the full story is still more or less compatible with my conjecture was that their energies were more directed to getting better performance out of their relatively low power sports cars through handling and balance improvements rather than raw HP.

:tup:
I wouldn't say relatively low tho, at least not in the ninties
I like JGTC way more than NASCAR btw.. just sayin

Road circuits FTW!! But, frankly, I like almost any races where motorized vehicles are involved :)

Anyway, remember that my original post was a conjecture on why the NSX, as a supercar, was underpowered in the late 90s early 2ks.

its not really a super car tho. imho, its a nice car, but not a super car

You're right in that by the end of the 90s it wasn't a super car, but if the 911 turbo S, 458 italia, etc. are currently super cars, then the NSX was a super car in 1990 -- the predecessors of those cars were what the NSX was designed to compete against.

But it didn't evolve and by the time it ended production it was way behind the class of car it was designed to compete against -- Ferrari went from the 348 to the 355 to the 360 all while the NSX was basically unchanged.

All my opinion of course :tup:

'76 Gremlin
http://www.thebushwackerz.com/wp-con...mc_gremlin.jpg

'76 Gran Torino Sport
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3660/...71746d976e.jpg

'76 Chevette
http://img.timeinc.net/time/2007/50_...y_chevette.jpg

I don't consider most porschs supercars...but like you said.. opinions...

Most Porsches aren't. The Turbo S is pretty impressive though -- 196 mph, 0-60 3.1 seconds -- the 458 italia has a higher top speed, but is not quite as quick to 60. By "Supercar" I don't necessarily mean 600K or 1 million dollar dream cars.