Nissan Ester Oil
 

For those of you interested in running the factory-fill Nissan Oil for break in, here's a link on where to buy it if you can't/don't want to get it locally.

http://www.courtesyparts.com/images/...9MP-5W30EP.jpg


CourtesyParts :: NISSAN 5W3

$11.98/qt + shipping

5W3? Wow with oil that thin I expect some visible dyno gains :icon17:

thanks for the picture, zzzZz. :tup:

Here's a thread that talk about this oil in another forum : G37 Owners Must Read!!!: G-Series Engine, Drivetrain & Tuning: G35 Forums - NICOclub

Also, Here's a good pdf on NIssan's Patent info on the ester oil : https://publications.european-patent...=1980609&ki=A1

The name is incorrect at that price. It should read Ankle-Grabbing Engine Oil 5W-30,

After following this thread thru, I'm convinced the problem I'm having with start up on my 04 Quest is due to this specific problem...A lack of ester based oil. I have been using MB1 in the 3.5 since after breakin with no problems at all. The last two oil changes I have been using Pennzoil synthetic. And now I'm hearing a slight knock at start up. Sounds like marbles in a can for a second. I wonder if my 08 SpecV requires the same ester oil?

I hear ya :icon18:

The G37 thread says this is a group V synthetic. Does anyone know if our cars come from the factory with esther oil in them? Do normal synthetic opinions apply, such as allowing seating to occur before switching from dino oil to synthetic?

John

Expensive but I guess it's worth it.

AFAIK the Nissan Ester Oil pictured above is dino with synthetic ester-based additives to help out with keeping a good lube film on the VVEL stuff. Motul 300V is a Group V full-synthetic which is ester based, and is what I'm going to be switching to on my next change (I did my first change at about 1850 with the Nissan Ester stuff). Unfortunately, the Motul costs even a bit more than the Nissan stuff. Better value for the money though.

You know, this is what I thought as well ........ dino with ester additives. The G37 link in this thread stated group V synthetic, which I think is incorrect, unless you can classify as a group V synthetic as dino with additives.

John

If you're referring to early in that thread where someone says, "A little research shows that it's a group V synthetic.", I think they meant that a little research indicated that "ester" itself is a group V synthetic, not that the Nissan Ester Oil is all group V synthetic. It's a dino oil with esters added.

Thats the same price as at the dealership.

Isn't Mobil 1 also considered ester oil?

Thanks for the clarification.

John

Yes, as is Castrol Edge.

I'm just wondering why people are going out of there ways to purchase Nissan Ester oil when Mobil one/Motul/Castrol Edge are more reaadily available?

It seems regular Mobil 1 does not contain the esters we want, but Mobil 1 Extended Performance may, although the details are fuzzy. Most oil manufacturers aren't very transparent on these issues, unfortunately.

Also, it's interesting to note that the patent Nissan got on their Ester Oil mostly isn't about the actual esters, it's about suspended metallic nano-particles added to their formula to help properly lubricate the Diamond-Like Coating (DLC) on the VVEL parts. Apparently some in-the-know types think this isn't very innovative anyways (the suspended particle thing), and any good quality synthetic with clingy esters is going to work just as well as their special sauce.

I'm mostly going with the Motul 300V because (a) they're one of the only ones that come right out and claim that their base oil is ester (not just some mixed in additive), (b) 300V is their flagship/premium product, and (c) it's a very large and well-respected brand, compared to some of the other boutique oils out there that make claims of being on par with this stuff.

Between the 300V and the K&N filter, I'm looking at somewhere around $95 cost per oil change DIY (no labor charges), but it's worth it to me. I want this engine to turn out like my last one (an LS1): 100K miles of hard-*** abusive driving, and not a single internal problem or leak developed, thanks to overzealous maintenance practices. That engine's getting moved to another vehicle soon where I suspect it will continue to have many more thousands of miles without issue.

ETA: I should note that LS1 used Mobil One its whole life, so I am a fan of that oil. I just feel safer with an ester-based oil in the VQ37VHR after reading up on all of this stuff.

Call me crazy or dumb, but with all of the money we waste on frivolous things an extra $50 a year for the recommended oil is worth it to me. I had my first oil change today and the dealer charged me $10 a quart for the ester.

Oil arguments will go on until there is no more oil. I've following them for decades now, and probably the best answer I've read consistently is to use a good quality motor oil and change it often, along with the oil filter. Regarding any upper-end sounds, if you are hearing those noises after the engine has warmed-up then the upper-end is simply not receiving the proper lubrication as the oil circulation is in play. Having to use clinging additives to prevent these is a design flaw. You'd be better off simply adding a preoiler.

The VVEL's design is pretty unique, I'm not gonna knock Nissan for saying it has special oiling requirements. As far as "having to use XX additives to prevent Y", this is something that's been going on with oil and engine forever. That's why API SA-grade oil is a no-no in anything made after 1930, it doesn't contain even the additives needed back then (probably wasn't very well refined either).

We're up to SM now for better or worse. All along the way, all kinds of additives have been added to better protect all kinds of engines, some of which are necessary for modern engines. Good quality API "SF" oil from a quality manufacturer (if you happen to have some stashed from years ago) should not be used in a 2009 car from any manufacturer and it comes down to necessary additives for newer engine technologies.

So if Nissan comes out with some new engine tech and says "hey this requires better oil than what a lot of mfgs are asking for (and a lot of what you'll find on the shelf) today", I don't see that as a big problem, they're just running a little ahead of the curve.

I hope you will have some used oil analysis done since you're spending so much on these oil changes. It would be nice to know how Motul protects the VHR because the results on the DE were poor. Castrol GTX showed better results at a fraction of the cost.

So very true. Using a quality name brand oil in the proper weight is all that is necessary. Changing the oil every 3,000 miles while using synthetic isn't necessary, but I guess it gives people something to do on the weekend.

Yes, and we'll see. I've got a 6-pack of UOA kits inbound from Blackstone, I'm going to have them look at my Nissan Ester Oil from the first change too.

3,000 miles is excessive for some people, sure. The oil analysis will help hone in on the right values, but I'll be playing it safe until then.

For your reference, I had a baseline oil analysis done on the original oil @1000mi.

My Oil Analysis @1000mi

Nissan states the following in the Owners Manual (see pict below); there is no reference to Nissan's ester based oil in the Service and Maintenance Guide; there is reference of a "recommendation" in Service (shop) Manual, but owner's are not expected to purchase a shop manual. I feel if Nissan is supposedly ahead of the engine design curve then such an ester precautions would not be necessary and the Nissan stated API rating should suffice as this is a mass produced vehicle for the masses to be serviced by standard dealerships and not some esoteric engineering prowess to be serviced by the few who have the qualified fluids to do so. That defeats the premise of the Z from its very origins. Hey, but that's just me.

Isn't the oil used on the GT-R from the factory Mobil1?

This whole Ester thing started with the G37 when they released our engine and people were hearing bad sounds out of the cylinder heads. First Ester oil was the fix, then they did a software update to make sure it ran with less noise even when using normal oils. I don't know the details on what they did w/ the software update, but I presume we have it as well. I'm quite sure that API SM oil of any brand and type is considered appropriate for our engine now, and won't void any warranty. That's probably why they didn't include it in the owner's manual, and why they're not making a big deal of it for our cars: it's expensive (looks bad for them) and it's not really necessary.

But they still reference it as recommended in the Service Manual, and the warranty is a lot shorter than I plan on keeping this engine running. There's a lot of question marks in there, and I wish we had straight answers, but we're not really going to get them, ever. I'd rather waste a few bucks and err on the side of caution.

Yes, but it's a different engine, although it does apparently have VVEL (can anyone confirm that it does, and they're also this same DLC coating?). Factory fill on our cars is Nissan Ester oil, which is more relevant to us.

Because you don't want to switch over to synthetic too early. Stick with conventional oil until around 5000 miles to ensure that all the seals have seated in properly, then switch over to a synthetic. That's the only reason I went out of my way to get the Nissan Ester oil. Did my first oil change at 1800 miles with that stuff. Then at 5000 I'm switching over to Motul 300V.

I though I would chime in to this thread. I just came from the Nissan dealer. I had my first oil change done. I was taking to the service manager and he mentioned that the Ester is "Recommended" but not "Necessary" for the 370Z hence it's a bit expansive option (to some). I still went with "Ester" for this time, since he gave me the option (FREE oil change, why not!). Not sure what route (regular vs synthetic vs Nissan Ester) I will go in the future.

This is definitively a great thread, and wstar, and others, have brought to light some excellent oil points.

And I certainly don't mean to ruffle your feathers (too much :p) by being so contrarian :)

SoCal,

While it is true that there is no mention of Nissan Ester Oil on page 9-5 of the Owner's Manual, I just want to point out that this is on page 9-2 of the Owners Manual:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/t...09-50737PM.jpg

So while I agree with you that owners are not expected to purchase a Service Manual, one doesn't actually have to go to the Service Manual to find a reference to this oil. But in any case, it is indeed just a recommendation, not a requirement, so I also agree with you that any oil that meets or exceeds the stated API rating on page 9-5 should suffice.

- Semtex <- Contrarian feather ruffler. ;)

Contrarians' are among my favorite people, and friends...life, and problem solving, would be so incredibility boring and screwed-up, without them! :tup:

So, I think we can put this one to rest? :hello:

Just FYI Folks,

I just had my first oil change at my Nissan dealer and according to my service manager, there is now a specific service bulletin from Nissan regarding making the ester oil highly recommended although not required for the 3.7 engine.

Also interesting is that this oil is apparently a Penzoil Platinum product and qualifies for their current $50 rebate after the proscribed number of oil changes.

Now; I haven't confirmed any of the above with Nissan Corporate but that is what the dealer told me.

My question is, is there a cheaper ester based oil that we can get from an auto parts store that will work just as well?

Synthetic with Esters is easy to get but petro based with Esters is tough. I haven't come across any major brands that do it.

Supposedly German Castrol GTX but stores don't sell it anymore. I'm trying to figure this one out as well.

... maybe Nissan coming out with their own oil is justified after all.

Is this oil new to the 370Z or has it been at the dealerships for several years?

To my knowledge, it's been out since the G37 has been out.

My dealer told me it isnt necessary, however it will make the engine run a lot quieter if you run it. You wont harm the engine by running different oil, its just going to click a lot because of the valvetrain.

I would suggest that if you can hear it, there is some wear happening, albeit not very much. Anything to improve the mechanical knocks/sounds is a good thing.

Red Line Break In Additive
 

So I'm wondering if Red Line's Engine Oil Break In Additive would be a good addition to the oil since it states that "designed for flat-tappet camshaft engines and essential for solid-roller and hydraulic roller valve train".

It also states: "For use in conventional motor oils lacking zinc, phosphorous (ZDDP) and anti-wear additive packages necessary for protecting against excessive camshaft and valve train wear".

It seems a lot of observations on motor oil change are about valve noise. I wonder if this additive with be a good addition at regular oil change intervals. I plan on using a full synthetic (royal purple) so maybe it's not as necessary as with other types of oil?

Mostly the ZDDP issue regarding 'flat-tappet camshafts', etc is about traditional race engines that were designed for oils with ZDDP. Our engine was designed for SM-rated oil with the reduced ZDDP levels, I don't think it needs ZDDP added.