The 370 has a very flat torque curve and good gearing. It is a lot faster than it feels, I agree.

I am still shopping but I think I have settled on the Z
- I never looked a vette, I have no desire to give GM any more money then I already have
- The 5.0 drew me in on performance
but when I got down to it, I justed liked being in the Z
I am never going to the track so I could care less if the vette or 5.0 are faster, the Z is really fast enough for me and it puts a smile on my face :)

If acceleration doesn't matter to you, I think the Z is by far the best buy out of the cars you mentioned above. However, I wouldn't pass the 'vette up just because you don't like GM. I don't like Obama--but I'm not going to leave the US because my taxes pay his salary.

Along with all of the obvious important elements i.e. speed, handling, interior, looks, etc I also gave careful consideration to long term costs (out 5-7 years). I hate to beat down an American industry that has already been slapped around for years but I still have not seen the level of improvement in US cars that is possible and is expected. I was very disappointed in the US cars I reviewed in terms of "fit and finish", fast depreciation, and expected maint. costs (as compared to the industry average). I am not proud to say this but I have not owned an American car since 1992 because of quality concerns.

Not trying to sway you or anyone else away from American cars, just my opinion and one that I REALLY hope changes soon by being proved wrong by the industry very soon. As for the Stang, sweet looking and brings back memories but I have to agree with another poster, Z06 and 370Z would be to top of the list. My budget was 35K or less and that was my OTD price for the 370Z I wanted. I am 6'3 and to be honest, I could not easily get in and out of the Vette so never seriously considered one. Personal choice as they say.

Good luck in your research and choice.

Liar.... a little bird told me you followed Randy Quaid up to Canada... :stirthepot:

2010 Nissan 370Z True Cost to Own ratings at Edmunds

You picked the car that costs the most to own within its market segment besides it's Infiniti twin. :roflpuke2:

Canada? Sorry, not my bag. I like it in the States.

I gotta be honest, many of the American cars out now are just as nice, if not nicer, than the Japanese or European competitors. This is partially due to American manufacturers stepping it up, and also due to a drop in quality in imports. People that continually parrot the belief that imports are superior in that regard are generally mislead. My the road noise and creaks in the Z are worse than most American cars. The new Civics and Sentras and what-not have tons of funky noises and problems.

You can ask most of the guys that have made the switch to the stang how they feel-- I think the stang is actually put together better. The Z06's that I have been in felt to have better interior quality (in terms of build) than the Z, just as an aside.

As far as the original question--I think you've just got to drive them and see what speaks to you. The best car on paper isn't always the best car for you.

I disagree some with your comment.

1. My Z does not creak at all. The 350 creaked, but not this car.
2. The Stang and the Z06 are both as loud as the Z IMO.

The US automakers have had to step it up to remain competitive, but rest assured, cuts were made somewhere. It is just a matter of time before those Accountant cuts start to come to light.

To that point, you are 115% correct. The best car on paper is not always the best car for you. Go drive them and make the decision.

BTW, I read a technical article on the VQ37VHR and WOW, the is a lot of technoloy in that engine. Much more than the new Coyote 5.0 or Z06 engine. I also understand why the Z's engine is loud. In the same way the Honda engines go insane (in great way) when VTEC kicks in, the Z's engine goes insane when the VVEL goes into full effect at about 5000 RPM.

:iagree:

They did cut costs. The new mustang uses a lot the design that the '05 did. The 'vette remains majorly unchanged since '05, and Dodge. Well, I don't feel like talking about them, Chrysler stuff usually is sub-par in most "quality" categories, and the one car that wasn't, died this year.

Nissan spent money re-doing their car. Ford and GM just spent a little money re-vamping the old, except for Ford's Coyote engine, which is just the 5.0 "cammer" plus a few tweaks that has been around for over a decade.

Yes the Nissan engine has more technology. Yay for it. It also makes the least power of the 6.2L or the 5.0L, gets worse gas mileage, and isn't any more reliable than its competators.

the Z06 is in a completely different category than any Z or Mustang, including the GT 500 which almost weighs 2 tons

Used Z06's are the same price as new 370's, and most are garage queens. This makes them a consideration I think.

i meant performance wise
honestly if anyone could get a C6 Z06 in good condition for the price of a Z or Mustang, it seems to me like an obvious choice
the car weighs around 3100 lbs and has over 500HP

They are there for the taking. People just don't think about that kind of stuff. I know when I was in college, I had a ram-air Trans Am. Even teachers said snide things about "my expensive car" when I complained that books ran what they did. In truth, the girls with the civic's and base mustangs paid more for their ride than I did. Got the car in great shape for $12K. People thought I paid a lot more. I have found that most are not interested in, or even understand, how to "get a deal" and just take everything at face-value. My former roommate had a loaded out '04 C5. He hit the same steriotype. Car cost $24K--about what a used Accord a year or two old ran if it had any decent options.

As I've lived with both let me tell you that both the Z and Mustang have their creaks and squeaks and bumps. My Z had some really annoying hatch rattle, passenger door rattle, and ECU whine. So far the Mustang only has a little rattle from the rear over bumps.

Stock for stock the Mustang is MUCH quieter than the Z. There is a lot of sound deadening built in. So much, in fact, that they had to use some silly sound-tube contraption to pump engine noise into the cabin.

I'm not saying this is a plus/minus... just stating that, stock, this thing is almost as quiet as a Lexus. :icon17:

I think it is a little odd to talk about sports cars in terms of 0-60. It could be just the way times are changing. I certainly had no interest in drag race quarter miles when I went Z shopping. Of course I don't track the car. In my view the Z excels in:

1. Plenty of power to accelerate in spirited driving.
2. Wonderful handling at any speed I dare drive (so far that is 110mph)
3. Easy and forgiving in evasive moves. An 18 wheeler didn't see me in the left lane and nearly ran me over. But the Z responded instantly to an 80mph hard left to the shoulder.
4. Lots of fun to drive.

I wouldn't add any power bolt-on's. It's fine for me as is. I did add a backup cam, SS brake lines and DOT 5.1 fluid, and a very good radar detector.

to much power makes a car less reliable... my bro learned that the hard way... i came from a corrolla so im just fine with the Z plus its just dam sexy

Bottom line is drive whatever makes you happy. I don't care if that means you must drive a Prius. :D

i like the prius.

Hey if you don't mind, could you please share the article (if its on digits)? I love reading those sorts of things.

A quick Google finds:
http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/DOCU...0713VVEL-e.pdf

I also read this article and watched the Nissan animated presentations:
Nissans 370Z VQ37VHR

NISSAN | TECHNOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITIES | Overview | VVEL (Variable Valve Event and Lift system)

And, after seeing all that, I decided I definitely needed an extended warranty for the 370Z :D

This.


Also thank you for those links to autotrader with those Z06's.. Very cheap, too bad AZ prices aren't that good :/ I may have to go out of state for one.

Nissans VHR engine is unique.. I have a feeling once VVEL is cracked the car will see some big power.

I will see if I can find it and will definately post it.

M4A1 - Wow, my Z has none of those creeks yours did and is definitely more quiet than the Stangs. Interesting.

And Import Convert - I think we should just agree to disagree on a few of your points... I think what Nissan did with a V6 is outstanding. Look at BMW, they could not get any more from their I6 in the M3 and had to go to the 8. Nissan's work if outstanding.

In the end, get what makes you happy. And stay out of Canada Import Convert! lol.

But just keep in mind the Z06 is the most difficult to drive of the 3....

very true... i drove a z06 and a couple of c6. although they are light, but they certainly didn't feel that way. in pros hands vettes are really fast on the tracks. but i don't like the way they handled, or the way the car responds to driver's input. coming from evos, vette's steering feels numb and lazy. in no way im suggesting they don't handle well, it's just i didn't enjoy it.

i didn't like the way 350z handled either, sold my brand new 350z after 2 months of ownership and lost pants on it... engine response nothing like a sports car, handled like a boat. hopefully 370z is a big improvement...

Say what?:icon14:

Still not getting your Canadian joke. I am the last person you would find there. Socialism sucks.

Yes, the engine is nice, but BMW did that back in 2003. Porsche gets over 400 from their 6-banger, BMW just evolved in a different direction is all.

Still, it's a 332bhp engine. Who cares how wonderfully it's crafted? Its not the most reliable, and it is behind the times in the power department for the car it's in. I guess if you just want to look at it/stare at spread-sheets, that's fine. Appreciate it for the work of art that it is. I am more interested in how the car feels when I floor it.

Looking through your posting history, it seems you're really obsessed with pointing out how disappointing the 370Z is on a forum full of people happy with their car. We get it. It's not fast or powerful enough for you. Who are you trying to convince?

Nevermind man...

Porsche has a FLAT 6. Very different and more suitable to making power when compared to V or I 6's. What nissan has done IS amazing.

Read up more on BMW, you will see why they changed direction. They needed to step up to the 8 to be more competitive. The I6 in the E46 was the best they could do (CSL notwithstanding).

It is not behind the times in terms of power. The Z is NOT a mucscle car. It is a sports car. As such it is right there with the TT RS, Cayman/Cayman S/1 M coupe/Genesis, etc.

And how do you know the VQ37VHR is not reliable? I could say the same about the Z06's engine. I have 'read' a few thread about their engines going kaboom. I guess the few stories I have read makes it true. Same with the RX8. People that did not know how to care for a Rotary and needed engine replacements made the engne unreliable. I never had any problems from mine.

Enjoy whatever ride makes you smile and do not knock others. :driving: Do not be a hater, but then again.... Haters will hate.

FYI for everyone, per the article on Yahoo, BMW's reliability is down the tube along with MB.

Article was from last night! Cheers!

What mustang are you comparing the interior sound to, endgame? I'm certain that a db test would show the Z to be a good bit louder than a 2011 mustang in the cockpit. For one the Z has NO sound deadening at all and its a hatch car with big wheel wells right behind the driver.

Ask Modshack, Red, myself, etc. and we'll all tell you the same thing. The car is very quiet compared to a Z stock for stock.

Now my 2003 GT... that was a different story.

Fwiw I don't see any reason to question the reliability of the VQ... as long as you maintain it properly it will go on and on just like most anything else.

endgame, have you driven the 350z? how would you compare the 370 to a 350?

Pretty sure BMW changed direction because it just made the most sense. They probably could have extracted more from the 6, they just happened to realize they could pull more power out of a V8, while saving weight. Additionally, they were having racing success with the 8-- not so much with their I6.



No doubt, their recent stuff hasn't been up to par. My 540i has ~200k on the clock though, and is still driving strong.
No doubt. I think many people still have the reputation of the older mustangs in their mind, and haven't realized how much of a change there has been.

According to Consumer Reports, the M3 isn't doing too bad.

Consumer Reports: Most reliable cars - Sporty car: Porsche Boxster (4) - CNNMoney.com

did you actually read the link you posted?

"The BMW M3, which ranked third in the reliability survey, is not recommended because the magazine has not tested it. Other versions of the BMW 3-series are recommended, though."

Im ok with it for now:tup:

I am referring to the 2010. My 02 was pretty noisy, but my 370Z is no louder than the 2010.....

Yes. What they mean is: "We have a lot of data showing us the car is reliable, but since we have not driven it, we can't tell you how much fun/not fun/ etc. it is to drive, so we can't tell you to go buy it. What we can tell you, is that those who have have had good luck with it lasting."

I thought the same as you until I realized that 1 press-car doesn't = a reliability study, and the reliability study was a survey of many cars.

The 2010 mustang and the 2002 mustang are worlds apart. I worked for Ford (sales) in 2005 when they switched over. Drove the new, drove the old. Wow.