Tobacco taxes aren't going anywhere but up, Nick.

I agree

I'm just against taxes in general regardless of the item haha

Who's pocket? The smoker's? Simple - quit smoking. Easy enough fix. Make it cost enough (by taxing it) and people will stop doing it, and the problems caused by it will go away.

The end result is that we're healthier for it, making our healthcare costs go down, which then the money "gained" by taxing won't be nessicary. On the other hand, those that do smoke, end up costing ALL OF US more money by having higher premiums - might as well try and offset it by placing a tax on the items causing the problem.

Do you like driving on nice roads with your Z?

Do you like the police coming to your house when you call them (or going to a neighbor's house when they are unruly) or responding to an accident when you wreck your Z?

Do you like the fire department showing up and putting out a fire that will consume all of your possessions without regard?

There's a lot of things that taxes pay for that have a huge benefit.

lol I understand that. I'm not talking about municipal taxes on such services. I think we should just drop it before this thread gets out of hand haha.

With all this talk of smoking and Z's... I couldn't resist! ;)

Well I for one don't want to be made "healthier" against my will. Oh and get your facts straight. It's a little publicized fact but smokers have lower total health care costs. The average age at which a smoker gets lung cancer is 72 and typically they don't live long enough to have long extended illnesses.

Why stop at cigarettes? Why not tax to extinction or outright outlaw all sorts of risky behavior -- hang gliding ... no way ..the nanny state says people having accidents hang gliding will raise premiums. Like fast cars ... sorry ...fast cars are dangerous. Like your whoppers -- you gotta be kidding ... saturated fat is a mega killer.

It's a slippery slope and it's inconsistent with the notion of individual responsibility for which this country is known.

If they are going to outlaw smoking because the non-smokers are getting annoyed at smelling a little smoke, then they should also outlaw wearing Axe body spray or old lady perfume in public places -- that crap is way more noxious smelling than a bit of stale tobacco smoke

Someone who agrees with me rep+ :tup:

It won't prevent already addicted people who can afford it to quit, but maybe it will reduce the number of teens who start smoking, or who can't afford to start smoking. Nobody starts smoking when they're adults and have money.

Yea, but to be honest I don't like the government involved in who's doing what with their lives.

If you're getting "little things" you didn't get a good deal...

Nothing in life is "free"...

No one can argue that it is good to reduce the number of teens who start smoking. But this should be between the teens and their parents. If you want to instill certain values in your children you need to teach those values to your children and not rely on the government to protect your kids from the big bad world.

Back on topic...... my G35 had an ashtray which I used to store a folded up Swiffer duster cloth to use on the dash when it needed it. I now store that in the glovebox. The G35 also had a little space in the center console that was shaped to hold 6 or 8 quarters, a handy thing to have when you have to feed a parking meter. Now I keep a few bucks worth of quarters in a plastic film can (those of us old enough to remember 35mm film remember those right ?) in my center console. No ashtray is not a big deal since most people don't smoke like the population used to, but the scarcity of storage space in the 370Z makes every little cubbyhole valuable.
As a side note, the first 370Z I saw at a dealer showroom must have been a repo or demo, it had about 5K miles on it already and I wasn't interested. When I opened the door to check out the interior I was sickened by the cigarette odor in the cloth upholstery. I told the salesman that they ought to invest $100 for a professional detailer to get that smell out if they planned on selling the car.

My 05 g35 coupe had an ashtray, and all did even in 07. I don't know about the g37, it's not something i even looked for when i drove one, and No i don't smoke either.. freakin gross, X-P

Surprised no one mentioned the lack of a cigarette lighter along with the lack of ashtray. But I could have missed that.

FWIW, I quit smoking over six years ago. I am healthier and my clothes don't stink anymore. Now I will be one of those guys who lives longer, end up in a nursing home, bed ridden and unable to get an erection. Wait, what's wrong with this picture?

I don't care if you smoke in your car, just don't do it in mine...

If you get "freebies", then you got ripped off...

Take your shoes off in my house... or I'll break you...

You deal with perfume scents for mere seconds.

Cigarette smoke lasts for days, weeks, even years.

Ya know...I could easily apply those same sentiments to the Z itself, or any other sports car. Maybe we should levy a 40% tax on sports cars too? Maybe everyone should drive around in Nissan Versa in full body armor because its safer? Hey, lets just stop polluting the world and everyone rides bicycles!

No, that wouldn't be convenient for you, would it... Let's just focus on other people's vices instead.

Also, post your proof they have lower overall healthcare....

Unless you're considering the ones who die quickly after being diagnosed, if they're diagnosed...

*cough cough...must be gettin' a cold...draaaag*

:epicfacepalm:

We do, in the form of higher insurance premiums. :tiphat:

Bicycles have been proven to pollute more than cars when it comes to CO2 emissions... :tiphat:

What are you talking about. Smoke actually dissipates rather quickly. Most of what people are complaining about is the odor of tobacco in the area. The odor is not smoke and the odor itself has no harmful effects.

Anyway I don't know why you assume you have to deal with perfume scents for mere seconds ... ever sit in a restaurant behind someone whose perfume made you sick ...or ride the bus next to a kid wearing the cologne of the day. Or stand in line at the bank or DMV in front of someone who had bad tuna salad for lunch.

Stale tobacco funk is not the best smell in the world, but it's not the worst either. People stink for all kinds of reasons. People should just get over it.

No one is forcing you to purchase insurance... Oh wait now you'll have to.

But as far as car insurance. I don't know the laws in your state. But you don't technically have to purchase your insurance from a company. You can get a bond for a certain value to carry in your vehicle in case of an accident.

(No Premiums)

Sure, higher insurance premiums already. But did you pay 40% in taxes on your car? 42% is only the amount of the last tax hike in May on cigs, that's not even the total taxes already on them.

Cars...or sports cars? Either way, I take it you're picking the Versa? Or maybe walking? A Vespa even?

I only expect people to be consistent with their ideas. If you want to tax the hell out of my cigs because of all those things, then those same thoughts need to be applied to everything across the board.

I don't even smoke that much anymore. It's just the attitude of the non-smokers that pisses me off. Just because some clownpuncher smokes in the car with his kids, or lights up next to you in a restaurant doesn't mean we all do. I remember going to a bar years ago when this couple brought their kids in and sat right down next to me and my buddy. We went into the back to smoke because of the kids. 10 minutes later, the mom was cutting up the steak for her little boy...knife in one hand, fork and cig in the other, probably dropping ash all over it.

Not every smoker is inconsiderate. We shouldn't all be punished because of it, no more so than you should be punished for other people wrecking their Z's.

Dissipates? Really? Where does it go?

Are there little cigarette smoke eating monsters in the air that are so small you can't see them, but they eat the smoke and make it magically not stink to hell?

That's like saying that you can fart in an elevator and no one else in the elevator, or who gets in just afterwards, can smell it.

In addition, smoke forms a resin. It stinks. My Dad's 1975 Les Paul Custom, with it's originally white binding...is a very dark amber - not from age, but from cigarette smoke in the 1000's of bars and clubs he played in the late 70's and early 80's.

A guitar amp that's "aged" a bit, will smell like a smoky bar when turned on. Not good - it'll stink up your whole house!

As for your scenario, no, I've not had to deal with it, but then again my sense of smell isn't skewed into thinking cigarette smoke magically disappears and no one can smell the elephant **** in the room.

How about an article from the New England Journal of Medicine

NEJM -- The Health Care Costs of Smoking

"Conclusions If people stopped smoking, there would be a savings in health care costs, but only in the short term. Eventually, smoking cessation would lead to increased health care costs."

I'm just doing my part to save your tax dollars...

In a convertible, the world is your ashtray.

lol....

Seriously ... please don't litter, wash your hands after going to the bathroom, and call your mother every once in a while

Yeah, I don't smoke or litter. I always wash my hands and have remembered to call my mom 5 of her last 8 birthdays.

Ok, lets play that...figure a car lasts 200K, average driving of 15K/yr (13.33yrs) 22MPG (9090.90 gallons of fuel), and fuel is an average of $3.00/gallon. Over the life of the car that's $27,272.7 in fuel costs. According to Wikipedia, the fuel has 45.6% tax rate, which is $12436.35 in tax paid over the life of the vehicle, not including TT&L (in my case $1400), and tag renewals (another $1140 over 12yrs)

So, that brings the total to just under 15K. I paid $37.4K for my Z. That's 40.1%

Now, take my truck, with the same numbers...

I paid $24000 (roughly), TTL was $900. Tag renewals will be the same. It gets 18MPG on a good day with a bit of a tail wind.

$15200 tax paid on fuel, $2040 on TT&L + renewals = $17240 paid tax = 71.8% tax rate for my truck.

:tiphat:

perhaps because people would be living longer...


Lets kill all the felons to save money on prison costs...same logic, right? Less prisoners in prison, therefore it'll cost less!



Also, in the discussion part of the article, they are disclaiming a "related diseases" and the care involved in correcting those issues. They're just looking at people who smoke, vs people who don't smoke, where as smoke is the direct cause of the doctors visit.

That's like saying people who have HIV aren't sick, because AIDS is a side effect and shouldn't be counted, therefore HIV isn't bad.

Some people might advocate that. Considering it costs about $60k a year per inmate. lol

Strange how that works - people can live on 25K/yr in the "free" world, yet it costs $60K to house an inmate...

Just ship them to Etheopia, where $1/day can feed a family of 32 and ensure this (poster) child can have clean water and go to school.

I saw it on a commercial - lol.

Genius!

But isn't that how Australia started?

I am not advocating any of that. I was simply responding to your unsubstantiated claim that smoking causes increased medical costs. I stated it doesn't and provided some evidence for my claim.

It is, and see how well it worked out for them?


We could turn Etheopia into the next Sidney.

No offense, but the evidence you provided has a lot of holes in it.

Four words in a very related argument where both sides prop up articles that have more holes than the Ozone Layer:


Man Made Global Warming

At least I provided some evidence. You simply claimed something as true and haven't produced any evidence to back up your position. If you don't like that article here's another

How Much Does Smoking Cost Society?

From the article:

"Vanderbilt University economist Kip Viscusi studied the net costs of smoking-related spending and savings and found that for every pack of cigarettes smoked, the country reaps a net cost savings of 32 cents.

It looks unpleasant or ghoulish to look at the cost savings as well as the cost increases and it's not a good thing that smoking kills people," Viscusi said in an interview. "But if you're going to follow this health-cost train all the way, you have to take into account all the effects, not just the ones you like in terms of getting your bill passed."

Here's 11.2M:
Google


Also, the article is suggesting we put people down like animals. OK...I guess. I mean, I'm sure that would save us buillions of healthcare dollars, however, imagine all the psychiatric care costs for those who grieve...

Great, I cite two papers. One from the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine and another with a quote from a famous economist ....

here is the actual link to his paper

Cigarette Taxation and the Social Consequences of Smoking

and you give me a Google link. How many of those 11.2 million articles are from refereed scientific journals? How many have you actually read?

Besides, you missed the point completely. Your search was on "smoking is bad". I never claimed it wasn't. Anyway ... "smoking is good" nets

Results 1 - 10 of about 64,600,000 for smoking is good. (0.27 seconds)

That's 64.6 million to your 11.2 milliom. I win :)