Poor mans GT4?
 

Ok, so my dream car is the Porsche Cayman GT4 with the carbon bucket seats and carbon ceramic brakes. I'd love to own one, but like most can't afford a 6 figure car. So my question is with the right mods could I make a Gen 1 Nismo close to a GT4?

Probably cheaper to buy the Porka in a couple of years when the price comes down.

You will need 400hp at the wheels which is low-ish boost FI (TT or SC) as a minimum otherwise you are looking at a 25K NA engine which might be a temperamental PoS unless you hook up with a real good tuner ........ will require at least 12.5:1 comp ratio to make the numbers and then you need E85 to be really safe from detonation unless you are religious about quality gas ... at 12.5:1 - a bad tank of gas could kill your engine, again dependoing on the tuner..

Sequential shifter would be good, but the OEM 7AT "might" be OK.

Forget the carbon brakes ......... they are a $10-$12K ask

The GT4 is a race-car - so you can make a NISMO into an equivalent race car but if you want to road it, I;d suggest you think again - to many compromises.

And lose about 400 lbs or roughly 10% which could be done but would be expensive and/or uncomfortable.

:inoutroflpuke:

Test drive one, or an older GT3, if that's possible, so you get a feel for what you are aiming for. In a Z, you will never get the engine sound and forward visibility that P cars offer. Things to get you a little closer imho...

Bolt on and tune (add some power and get rid of the throttle lag)
Aftermarket clutch and lighter flywheel (rev feels lighter but may throw off the S mode)
Short throw shifter
Improve oil, trans, diff cooling
SPL bushings
SPL arms
Hotchkins front sway bar
Coilover/dampers/spring upgrade - that's a maybe
Reduce tire stagger or square setup, stickier tires
Brakes - BBK or 2pc rotors with pads/lines/fluid/Ti shield upgrade
Other things to make it more bullet proof like ATI engine damper, insulated clutch line, CJM oil pan and fuel pump, new MC and CSC or CSC Delete.

Weight loss would be lovely, maybe a lightweight battery, remove the spare tire, light weight seats. Other than that, the Z is stripped as is, i wouldn't take out carpet and trims if GT4 is your dream car, imo.

Unless you spend more than a GT4 would cost, a Z will never be a mid-engined car.

The gt4 is basically a Cayman with the gt3 rear suspension specially fitted, plus improved front suspension. Plus it's mid engined and much lighter

You'll never touch it with the Z for less money

I think it's GT3 front and revised rear?

It might be cheaper to buy a Cayman / Cayman S and throw on aftermarket springs/coils. At least then you get the Porsche feel and can work on its tracking abilities

Could be right. I just remember it stole the GT3 stuff on one end and they made special gt4 specific suspension on the other, beefed up the engine a bit, better brakes, wing, cooling, blah blah

A more interesting attempt would be an Sw20 MR2 with a V6 swap. Been a while since i read up on any of this but the V6 from late 90's/early 00's Camry/Avalon can be easily fitted, over 200 hp, 3 to 3.5L. Build that up or supercharge (might even have a legal TRD kit!), standard suspension upgrades

then you might be getting close

It'll just be hard to find a clean hardtop MR2, but the engines are cheap and plentiful, and you might have a streetable, lightweight mid-engined car that approximates the feel

Nah, v8 swap with supercharger cheaper and more reliable then trying build the v6

Well, I was looking at used 06-07 Cayman S, and they're right around $25k give or take a little. Nismo Zs can be had for around the same money. They're similarly equipped besides some luxuries: leather, heated seats, etc. so now the hard part, choosing what to buy. I've got a build list for the Nismo saved on my phone that I think would give me the "best" of both worlds.


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Exhaust - Ti GtHaus CBE/Motordyne ART Pipes/Motordyne LTH

- [ ] Suspension - MCA Red Series Coilovers/Whiteline Front and Rear Way Bars/SPL Endlinks and Arms/SPL Bushings

Brakes - AP Racing Big Brake Kit 6 piston 14.5in front/ 4 piston 14in rear/ braided lines

Tuning - EcuTek tune at Z1 Motorsport

Wheels - Rays/Volk Te37SL 19in/Volk CE28N 19in/Volk ZE40/Enkei NT03 (one of these)

Tires - Toyo R888(Track)/Michilen PSS(Daily)

- [ ] Engine - Stillen Gen3 intakes/Stillen SETRAB Oil Cooler/JWT Exhaust Cam/Motordyne Intake Manifold/Carbon parts/ZSpeed Performance Aluminum Undershroud

- [ ] Transmission - TWM Short Shifter/PSWD JDM Shift Knob OR TWM Desert Eagle Shift Knob/SBC Clutch and Flywheel

Then just random bits of aesthetic carbon inside and out. Does this sound like a decent build? I know that's a **** ton of money to dump in a Z tho.


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You need to upgrade the stock CSC, add front brake ducts, finned diff cover if not doing a diff cooler, a real LSD, potentially a higher final drive ratio...Not sure why you want the WL rear bar though.

If you are really going to throw the car around, you would want CJM fuel pump, CJM baffled oil pan and ATI engine damper wouldn't hurt.

Your list ain't bad at all. I think plenty of guys here have spent way more than that. But for your goal, Z looks great and has resemblance to Porsche's shape, but cost a third to buy, and 1/10th of the cost to maintain.

didn't realized OP hasn't actually bought the car yet...lol

the gt4 has a bigger engine (3.8), more power, mid-engine, and lighter chassis. All the minor things you have to add to the z34 to get to competition level, like adjustable arms and spherical joints come standard on it. Oh, and i dont see a differential on your build list, but the gt4 comes with a fancy schmancy unit from the factory. it has the racing seats from the factory.

Is it POSSIBLE to make a Z better than the gt4 while keeping it streetable? probably
is it possible to make it better than the gt4 while staying under the $100k price? unlikely


the guy who can make this happen is a wonderkid who is given a straight low miles z34 chassis for free, has cousins that work for all the best aftermarket companies so he gets parts at wholesale, and also has more cousins who own custom engine building shop, a custom suspensionn/alignment shop, a custom metal shop for fab work, and is buddies with racers who know the chassis well enough to help you set it all up

even then, it'll require a buncha time and effort, regardless of whether the bill is cheaper than a new gt4 or not

but in the end

who cares if your z is faster than a gt4 or not? its a different car for a different market

a worthy goal, but not one that you should consider yourself a failure if you don't reach it

bench racing against other cars only makes you a perpetual loser. its a battle you never win

I don't think OP said to beat or better than a GT4...he just wants it "close to" (a subjective measure at this point) on his budget.

MSRP is $84,600 not 6 figure, and I just checked Porsche's website, doesn't look like they are available new at the moment. With enough money anything is possible, but you gotta pay to play, and you get what you pay for.

Yea, they were $85k starting price. Since then it has been put out of production, and they have appreciated. You can't get one less than $100k now. I'm gonna call my insurance company and see which car would be cheaper an older Cayman S or Nismo 370.


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I'm currently driving a 2011 Eclipse, which was my first car. After 4, nearly 5yrs it's become soooo boring to drive. I've always loved Porsche, hell they are my favorite car company, but I can't overlook the other amazing cars there are for around $30k. I'm working my *** of and saving as much as I can. I will also be trading my car in, so this would be my daily. Just trying to live life lol.


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I hear you there, my favorite companies in order are Aston Martin, Porsche, then Nissan. Some people, like you and myself, can only afford so much.

My advice, buy new, buy a 370Z. The Cayman is nice, but for the same price it is used and may not know how it was treated prior.

Unfortunately I have to buy used. Simply because I can't afford the $45k a new Nismo Z. At 20 my credit isn't really the best, so the APR will be ridiculous and my payments will be high. Plus insurance is already gonna eat me alive lol. Trying to save $5k-$10k just to help.


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for the money U cant beat a new Z..Im coming from an 06 Por C4S, nice car but very pricey new and the repairs are $$$$$$$$$$$, don't miss it one bit.

Then you really can't afford the car. Spend a year or two working on your credit, then start thinking about sports cars. There will still be Zs available then, and it won't cost you a fortune in interest.

These cars aren't cheap to run. Tires are expensive and they go fast, mods cost a lot since it's a small market and you always need to keep $1000 or so in your pocket for a csc if you buy a manual.

^ Chuck speaks truth

Also, then don't even think about Caymans. With P cars, the maintenance will kill your wallet. Cheap European used cars can get expensive very quickly.

you mean like a body kit ?

To be completely honest and unbiased, get a used brz or frs, at 20 your wallet will thank you. Don't throw a lot of money at it and learn to drive it to it's full potential (HPDE). After 5 or so years of saving and learning get the replacement 370 or a steal on a used 370 because a lot of people will be trading their's in. Then not only will you have more money but be a better driver then 99% of the porsche drivers out there.

the answer is simply NO...a Z looks nothing like a porsche nor does it drive like one. A Z is a Z and a porsche is a porsche.

For now I would suggest buying a car thats affordable for you that wont have to strapped for cash.

Your car payments shouldnt be more then 10-15% of your monthly income, its kind of a standard if you talk to someone with financial expertise.

um at age 20 you should be driving a used civic and saving the rest of your money for tuition and books

when you graduate and get a stable job, buy a house

then start working on an actual gt4 if thats what you want

seems like barely being able to buy a Z is gonna set you back

I mean I make decent money $100 a day, but that's neither here more there. I'm also not in college. Plan to go back one day just not now. I don't quite see the issue with having my priorities different than the norm. I shall be test driving the cars in question soon though.


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$100/day comes out to $25k / yr (gross) assuming standard 5 days/wk, 50 wks / yr. That's barely enough to cover rent and bills, yet you want an originally $40k sports car while having bad credit? This is a bad decision that will leave you with much regret. Even if that's a net, that only puts you at what, $40k / yr? Also, I'm guessing that you live at home since rent would be eating up at least half of that?

It's not that your priorities aren't the norm, it's that you cannot afford a normal load of bills and a sports car (with a $10k+ mod list). It's good to have this kind of thing for a goal, but you're not even close to achieving it yet. If you want a Z and want to be able to afford maintenance, upkeep, mods and track expenses, look at HR 350s. Please don't take this as being unnecessarily harsh, it's just the cold reality of math.

I'll save the life and finance 101 lesson for others. If OP wants to do it, go ahead and stick to it. But when budgeting sinks in, just don't turn coilovers into cut springs, BBK to caliper covers, R888 into mismatched used tires

And only spend what you have. Don't rack up credit card debt then run off.

Unfortunately, I work 7 days a week 52 weeks a year, save for Christmas and New Years. I do get what you're saying though. Life's rough and hard. Credit isn't bad just don't really have any, which I hear is worse. I checked my score it's like a 670. I do plan to have such a car in my early 20s. I do thank you for being honest with me though. That's something to admire nowadays.


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Can I ask what you do that only pays $100 per day and requires you to work the entire year with no weekends and only 2 days off?

I do construction for a family member. The pay is only worth it since it's under the table so I make the full amount. I work from 6:30-7ish everyday and on most holidays we work half days except the ones listed.


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If it's all unreported, how will you show any proof of income to get the loan for the car?

And even if you made minimum wage, you'd still probably net out higher for the same hours. Especially if OT gets you time and a half.

100 cash a day or 36.5k a year, I don't think you'll be able to afford a Z, maintenance isn't cheap on it either. Tires mounted and balanced with an alignment can be close to 1k unless you're using chinese tires which what's the point of the sports car then. Not to mention premium gas. Also the Z is in a high insurance group. Do it if you want but I wouldn't recommend it.

whos car is in your avatar then?

That doesn't sound worth it at all :icon14:

We used to pay our day laborers nearly that much, and they worked 8 hour days with OT (1.5x) pay on weekends. Skilled labor is paid far more.