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Originally Posted by semtex Alright, my purchase of that Kahr PM45 was a complete, boneheaded fail on my part. It never dawned on me to do a layover comparison of

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Old 03-09-2010, 12:16 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by semtex View Post
Alright, my purchase of that Kahr PM45 was a complete, boneheaded fail on my part. It never dawned on me to do a layover comparison of the PM45 against my Kimber Ultra until yesterday morning. Guess what? It's for all intents and purposes the same size! The Kimber is maybe a quarter-inch longer on the slide, but the slide is actually thinner, and the grip height is the same. So the PM45 is completely redundant with what I already have! The Kahr is lighter due to its polymer frame, but the Kimber holds 2 more rounds! Ugh. FAIL!

Don't get me wrong though. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the Kahr PM45 or Kahrs in general. The only thing that makes this a fail for me is that I bought it to fill a particular gap I thought I had in my collection, only to discover that it's redundant with a piece that I already have. It looks like I may have to go the .380 route to fill the gap after all (I don't have a pocket-gun in my collection). If someone is in the market for a compact .45 ACP, I will still suggest that they look at the Kahr PM45. I prefer my 1911 in the same size, but there's a $650-$700 price difference between them! (Quality 1911s are not cheap, that's for sure.) Anyway, I went and sold the PM45 yesterday, at a loss of course. I suck.


Well at least you had a new gun for a few days.
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Old 03-09-2010, 01:14 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Semtex, i predict a kel-tec P3AT in your future.
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Old 03-09-2010, 01:22 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Ha. You might be right. I'm going to a gun show this weekend. I might have to pick up one. Do you by chance know how much they typically run?

Edit: Actually, if I were to go .380, I'd probably just get the Sig P238. The Kel Tec PF9 looks like it might be a contender though.
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Old 03-09-2010, 04:44 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I'll jump in here and show mine. I took a quick shot with a broken crappy camera, it has no aiming ability with a broken lcd screen! But you get the idea! Top left Sig P250 in .40. Top right Sig P239 in 9mm. And the newest addition for pocket carry the Kel-Tec PF9 in 9mm on the bottom. The Kel-Tec has a nice little kick to it but expected in a 9 of that size. The P250 really does cause of the polymer grip, but its fun to shoot! P239 was my first, really great gun.
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:10 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by semtex View Post
Ha. You might be right. I'm going to a gun show this weekend. I might have to pick up one. Do you by chance know how much they typically run?

Edit: Actually, if I were to go .380, I'd probably just get the Sig P238. The Kel Tec PF9 looks like it might be a contender though.
You should be able to pick up a P3 for $250. BTW, I owned a PF9 and its a wrist breaker, as im sure you know, you need to practice a bit with your carry gun and carry loads and i'll tell ya, 15 rounds and you're ready to put it down. My P3 literally feels like my cell phone in my pocket, i've even had it in my basketball shorts, it doesnt print at all. BTW, the CorBon DPX .380 loads penetrate 12"+ in denim covered gelatin, thats 9mm territory, just food for thought!
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Old 03-10-2010, 08:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
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You should be able to pick up a P3 for $250. BTW, I owned a PF9 and its a wrist breaker, as im sure you know, you need to practice a bit with your carry gun and carry loads and i'll tell ya, 15 rounds and you're ready to put it down. My P3 literally feels like my cell phone in my pocket, i've even had it in my basketball shorts, it doesnt print at all. BTW, the CorBon DPX .380 loads penetrate 12"+ in denim covered gelatin, thats 9mm territory, just food for thought!
Yeah the PM45 is like that too. It is not a pleasant gun to shoot. Shooting .45 from such a lightweight pistol, well let's just say that the recoil has to go somewhere. In my case, it all went to the knuckle of my thumb, and it actually took skin off after 50 rounds!

Re. .380 penetration, here's the concern I've always had. I wonder if .380 has sufficient energy. You say that it penetrates 12" in gelatin. That's fine and well, but what happens if the slug hits bone? Will it have sufficient energy to break through bone? Energy is what smashes through bone, not velocity. (Velocity is important for slug expansion, however, and it factors into the energy equation.) That's one shortcoming of ballistic gelatin testing, IMO. Why is this important? Well, our vital organs are protected by bone. Take a center of mass shot, and there's a good chance the slug will hit a rib. Take a head shot, and it has to penetrate through skull. Unless you're aiming for the gut, you're not shooting at the equivalent of a block of gelatin. I'm not saying that .380 won't get the job done, mind you. I'm just saying that I'm unsure, that I don't know, hence I'm a little iffy on being confident in the round.

To give you an idea, here are the comparative energy ratings of Corbon DPX .380 vs. 9mm rounds:

.380: 196 ft/lbs.
9mm: 399ft/lbs.

So, just by moving up to a 9mm, you get a little more than double the energy.

Having said that, I still might get a .380. You just can't beat the convenience of those little things when all you want to do is go take the dog for a walk or something, and have some protection with you in case a vicious dog breaks out from a neighbor's back yard and attacks you (which happened to me once -- the thing grabbed my dog by the neck and started shaking it. I only managed to stop the thing by kicking it square in its nose. The next time something like that happens, I'd rather just shoot it. Luckily, the dog dropped my dog and ran off. It could have easily turned on me instead).
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:37 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I never said that a .380 was a single shot man stopper, but what it does offer is convenient concealment, any bullet is better than no bullet right? The P3 is a summer use only pistol for me because my summer attire is usually tshirt and shorts, when the colder weather comes around and I start wearing jackets and more clothing, I carry either my S&W J-frame .357 or my M&P .357 compact.
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I never said that a .380 was a single shot man stopper, but what it does offer is convenient concealment, any bullet is better than no bullet right? The P3 is a summer use only pistol for me because my summer attire is usually tshirt and shorts, when the colder weather comes around and I start wearing jackets and more clothing, I carry either my S&W J-frame .357 or my M&P .357 compact.
I agree. I just returned from the gun store an hour ago with a new .380, actually.
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:46 PM   #9 (permalink)
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which one did you go with?
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Old 03-10-2010, 02:55 PM   #10 (permalink)
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which one did you go with?
The Sig P238. It's like a mini-1911 (single action, carried cocked and locked). 6+1 capacity, night sights included, $599.



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Old 03-17-2010, 09:55 PM   #11 (permalink)
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The Sig P238. It's like a mini-1911 (single action, carried cocked and locked). 6+1 capacity, night sights included, $599.
You can trace/credit the 1911-ness of the Sig P238 to the Colt Mustang .380 as the Sig is basically a revamped copy of the Colt. If it is anything like most other Sigs the quality should be good.
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Second Amendment March


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Old 03-24-2010, 09:15 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Oh yea!

SIG SAUER: NEW: P210 Legend
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Old 03-12-2010, 05:05 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I just read in a guns and ammo mag that the army is going to update the m4 by 2013. The "round counter" is a very cool idea. I wonder if gun manufacturer would implement that to civilian ar15's? Here's a clipping of the article:

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Old 03-10-2010, 03:13 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Looks nice. I'm looking for a P239 SAS Gen 2 Nitron 40S&W. You didn't see one of those when you were at the store did you?
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