Anyone here into firearms?

m4a1mustang · 12-20-2012, 06:45 PM

I'm pissed now that I didn't buy a lower or two during a sale a few months ago. I wanted to build one into a pistol and another to 20"

m4a1mustang · 12-21-2012, 08:10 AM

NRA's presser is at 10:45 AM EST. We'll see how they're going to approach all of this.

m4a1mustang · 12-21-2012, 10:25 AM

Summary:

Blame media for glorifying violence
Blame violent video games
Demand armed security in all schools
Calls on Congress to get armed security in all schools by January
Blame media for misinformation on semi-automatics, .223 round
Don't deny Americans right to protect themselves
etc

Some good points, but to non gun people Wayne probably just looked like some right wing wacko. Media will have a field day with this IMO.

m4a1mustang · 12-21-2012, 10:28 AM

Outlining some school security stuff right now.

Doesn't seem like they are going to be giving an inch on our rights. But like I said the media is going to have a field day on this. Crazy white guys... ban all guns!

Robert_K · 12-21-2012, 10:35 AM

Watched it. Good points!

Red__Zed · 12-21-2012, 10:40 AM

The problem is there's no way to call it like it is without looking like a nut in sound bytes, unfortunately.
In my mind, this recent shooting was 100% a parental failure. There are no implementable "gun control" laws that would have prevented this recent tragedy.
The guns were purchased far in advance, likely by his parents. The better mental health controls everyone clamored for after the VT incident likely wouldn't have helped, since he wasn't even procuring the weapons himself (to my knowledge).

What sort of control law do you plan to enact that comes into everyone's house and takes away every 40 year old woman's handgun? Better care for folks that are emotionally imbalanced is critical in order to prevent these attacks, but that's difficult to do without infringing on rights. While it might help in some cases to actually screen the purchaser, I think it is more important to tack on liability (criminal and civil) to those who provides weapons to the mentally unstable....similar to how we treat providing weapons to felons.

m4a1mustang · 12-21-2012, 10:42 AM

NRA would have been better off outright discussing gun control, why it doesn't work, and why it won't work. Present facts and statistics to support their argument. State that they will defend 2nd amendment rights. Then maybe they could go into some school security discussion.

Instead it's just going to seem like crazy white guys saying, "moar gunz!"

Red__Zed · 12-21-2012, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

NRA would have been better off outright discussing gun control, why it doesn't work, and why it won't work. Present facts and statistics to support their argument. State that they will defend 2nd amendment rights. Then maybe they could go into some school security discussion.

Instead it's just going to seem like crazy white guys saying, "moar gunz!"

The NRA has been lazy for a long time, but it seems to have worked OK.

ZMan8 · 12-21-2012, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

The problem is there's no way to call it like it is without looking like a nut in sound bytes, unfortunately.
In my mind, this recent shooting was 100% a parental failure. There are no implementable "gun control" laws that would have prevented this recent tragedy.
The guns were purchased far in advance, likely by his parents. The better mental health controls everyone clamored for after the VT incident likely wouldn't have helped, since he wasn't even procuring the weapons himself (to my knowledge).

What sort of control law do you plan to enact that comes into everyone's house and takes away every 40 year old woman's handgun? Better care for folks that are emotionally imbalanced is critical in order to prevent these attacks, but that's difficult to do without infringing on rights. While it might help in some cases to actually screen the purchaser, I think it is more important to tack on liability (criminal and civil) to those who provides weapons to the mentally unstable....similar to how we treat providing weapons to felons.

Yep thats sums up my thoughts. Well said.

To add to that. Gun laws dont really apply to those looking to commit a crime. Further regulation will only hurt honest citizens. Drugs are illegal yet people find a way to get them anyway.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

m4a1mustang · 12-21-2012, 04:46 PM

The more I think about it the more I feel like the press conference today was a complete failure and more than likely weakens any future NRA effort to combat gun control legislation.

At the core of the press conference the NRA did two things:

1) They completely ignored the debate over gun control which is swallowing the nation whole at the moment

2) They attempted to deflect to and place the blame on a lack of school security using the incredibly unrealistic idea of having qualified, armed guards in schools.

Given the number of schools in the US (something on the order of 130k+) there is no way every locality will be able to afford qualified, armed security personnel for schools. I think this is an idea that will broadly be laughed at and torn apart by most. It's unfeasible.

The real issue at hand is gun control. Specifically, that gun control DOES NOT work.

The NRA should have taken this time to address the debate at hand and lay out the facts. Gun control doesn't work. It hasn't worked. And it will never work.

And explain WHY.

Explain that the vast majority (99.9999%) of gun owners are LAW ABIDING CITIZENS that only want to be able to 1) enjoy a Constitutional right, 2) engage in lawful sporting activity, and 3) have a means to defend themselves and their families.

Explain that only a small percentage (less than 5%) of firearms used in crimes were purchased legally.

Explain that a semi-automatic AR-15 "assault rifle" is no more dangerous than a standard hunting rifle or handgun, and that those that choose to inflict mass damage on soft targets would be able to do so with ANY weapon.

Explain that the Sandy Hook shooting likely would not have occurred had Nancy Lanza secured her weapons in safes so that her son could not access them.

The NRA should have urged Federal lawmakers to ensure that our EXISTING gun laws are properly enforced.

The NRA should have spent a little more time discussing mental health, and that if our mental health system was not broken (And properly integrated with background check databases) that firearms likely would not have been sold to Cho or the Aurora shooter among others.

This was a prime time for the NRA to lay out the unarguable fact that, statistically, legally purchased guns are safe and law-abiding gun owners are no threat to society.

Instead, they blew it by wasting a lot of time on a useless plan. They would have been better off staying quiet.

phelan · 12-21-2012, 05:10 PM

Yeah. What Stevie said. Like I argued with some, the government is addressing the immediate, without actually solving the cote problem.

Trying to find an AR in California right now is worse than a needle in a haystack. Everybody snapped one up when they could.

Red__Zed · 12-21-2012, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

The more I think about it the more I feel like the press conference today was a complete failure and more than likely weakens any future NRA effort to combat gun control legislation.

At the core of the press conference the NRA did two things:

1) They completely ignored the debate over gun control which is swallowing the nation whole at the moment

2) They attempted to deflect to and place the blame on a lack of school security using the incredibly unrealistic idea of having qualified, armed guards in schools.

Given the number of schools in the US (something on the order of 130k+) there is no way every locality will be able to afford qualified, armed security personnel for schools. I think this is an idea that will broadly be laughed at and torn apart by most. It's unfeasible.

The real issue at hand is gun control. Specifically, that gun control DOES NOT work.

The NRA should have taken this time to address the debate at hand and lay out the facts. Gun control doesn't work. It hasn't worked. And it will never work.

And explain WHY.

Explain that the vast majority (99.9999%) of gun owners are LAW ABIDING CITIZENS that only want to be able to 1) enjoy a Constitutional right, 2) engage in lawful sporting activity, and 3) have a means to defend themselves and their families.

Explain that only a small percentage (less than 5%) of firearms used in crimes were purchased legally.

Explain that a semi-automatic AR-15 "assault rifle" is no more dangerous than a standard hunting rifle or handgun, and that those that choose to inflict mass damage on soft targets would be able to do so with ANY weapon.

Explain that the Sandy Hook shooting likely would not have occurred had Nancy Lanza secured her weapons in safes so that her son could not access them.

The NRA should have urged Federal lawmakers to ensure that our EXISTING gun laws are properly enforced.

The NRA should have spent a little more time discussing mental health, and that if our mental health system was not broken (And properly integrated with background check databases) that firearms likely would not have been sold to Cho or the Aurora shooter among others.

This was a prime time for the NRA to lay out the unarguable fact that, statistically, legally purchased guns are safe and law-abiding gun owners are no threat to society.

Instead, they blew it by wasting a lot of time on a useless plan. They would have been better off staying quiet.

It is important to remember that the NRA isn't actually a gun rights group.

m4a1mustang · 12-21-2012, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

It is important to remember that the NRA isn't actually a gun rights group.

True. GOA is a gun rights group.

cdoxp800 · 12-21-2012, 05:37 PM

Pick me up a Sig 1911 traditional. Cannot wait to fire some rounds with it.

1911 Traditional Reverse Two-Tone

Red__Zed · 12-21-2012, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phelan

Yeah. What Stevie said. Like I argued with some, the government is addressing the immediate, without actually solving the cote problem.

Trying to find an AR in California right now is worse than a needle in a haystack. Everybody snapped one up when they could.

If I wasn't in the middle of buying a house i would be lined up for one right now.

12-20-2012, 06:45 PM	#2641 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	I'm pissed now that I didn't buy a lower or two during a sale a few months ago. I wanted to build one into a pistol and another to 20" __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

12-21-2012, 08:10 AM	#2642 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	NRA's presser is at 10:45 AM EST. We'll see how they're going to approach all of this. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

12-21-2012, 10:25 AM	#2643 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	Summary: Blame media for glorifying violence Blame violent video games Demand armed security in all schools Calls on Congress to get armed security in all schools by January Blame media for misinformation on semi-automatics, .223 round Don't deny Americans right to protect themselves etc Some good points, but to non gun people Wayne probably just looked like some right wing wacko. Media will have a field day with this IMO. Robert_K likes this. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

12-21-2012, 10:28 AM	#2644 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	Outlining some school security stuff right now. Doesn't seem like they are going to be giving an inch on our rights. But like I said the media is going to have a field day on this. Crazy white guys... ban all guns! Robert_K likes this. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

12-21-2012, 10:35 AM	#2645 (permalink)
Robert_K A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Spring, TX/Iraq Posts: 1,281 Drives: '12 Forgeline G37S Rep Power: 17	Watched it. Good points! __________________ '12 G37S Forgeline, '03 Built TT 350Z HRE (Sold!) http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m...psc7a6dc53.jpg

12-21-2012, 10:40 AM	#2646 (permalink)
Red__Zed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: window seat Posts: 28,940 Drives: Mostly on two wheels Rep Power: 119	The problem is there's no way to call it like it is without looking like a nut in sound bytes, unfortunately. In my mind, this recent shooting was 100% a parental failure. There are no implementable "gun control" laws that would have prevented this recent tragedy. The guns were purchased far in advance, likely by his parents. The better mental health controls everyone clamored for after the VT incident likely wouldn't have helped, since he wasn't even procuring the weapons himself (to my knowledge). What sort of control law do you plan to enact that comes into everyone's house and takes away every 40 year old woman's handgun? Better care for folks that are emotionally imbalanced is critical in order to prevent these attacks, but that's difficult to do without infringing on rights. While it might help in some cases to actually screen the purchaser, I think it is more important to tack on liability (criminal and civil) to those who provides weapons to the mentally unstable....similar to how we treat providing weapons to felons. m4a1mustang and UNKNOWN_370 like this.

12-21-2012, 10:42 AM	#2647 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	NRA would have been better off outright discussing gun control, why it doesn't work, and why it won't work. Present facts and statistics to support their argument. State that they will defend 2nd amendment rights. Then maybe they could go into some school security discussion. Instead it's just going to seem like crazy white guys saying, "moar gunz!" OMGiGOTaZ likes this. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

12-21-2012, 04:46 PM	#2650 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	The more I think about it the more I feel like the press conference today was a complete failure and more than likely weakens any future NRA effort to combat gun control legislation. At the core of the press conference the NRA did two things: 1) They completely ignored the debate over gun control which is swallowing the nation whole at the moment 2) They attempted to deflect to and place the blame on a lack of school security using the incredibly unrealistic idea of having qualified, armed guards in schools. Given the number of schools in the US (something on the order of 130k+) there is no way every locality will be able to afford qualified, armed security personnel for schools. I think this is an idea that will broadly be laughed at and torn apart by most. It's unfeasible. The real issue at hand is gun control. Specifically, that gun control DOES NOT work. The NRA should have taken this time to address the debate at hand and lay out the facts. Gun control doesn't work. It hasn't worked. And it will never work. And explain WHY. Explain that the vast majority (99.9999%) of gun owners are LAW ABIDING CITIZENS that only want to be able to 1) enjoy a Constitutional right, 2) engage in lawful sporting activity, and 3) have a means to defend themselves and their families. Explain that only a small percentage (less than 5%) of firearms used in crimes were purchased legally. Explain that a semi-automatic AR-15 "assault rifle" is no more dangerous than a standard hunting rifle or handgun, and that those that choose to inflict mass damage on soft targets would be able to do so with ANY weapon. Explain that the Sandy Hook shooting likely would not have occurred had Nancy Lanza secured her weapons in safes so that her son could not access them. The NRA should have urged Federal lawmakers to ensure that our EXISTING gun laws are properly enforced. The NRA should have spent a little more time discussing mental health, and that if our mental health system was not broken (And properly integrated with background check databases) that firearms likely would not have been sold to Cho or the Aurora shooter among others. This was a prime time for the NRA to lay out the unarguable fact that, statistically, legally purchased guns are safe and law-abiding gun owners are no threat to society. Instead, they blew it by wasting a lot of time on a useless plan. They would have been better off staying quiet. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

12-21-2012, 05:10 PM	#2651 (permalink)
phelan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: CA Age: 38 Posts: 9,513 Drives: Scoobaroo Rep Power: 3406	Yeah. What Stevie said. Like I argued with some, the government is addressing the immediate, without actually solving the cote problem. Trying to find an AR in California right now is worse than a needle in a haystack. Everybody snapped one up when they could. __________________ 凛 ('Rin') - 2009 Nissan 370Z With silence comes peace. With peace comes freedom. With freedom comes silence.

12-21-2012, 05:37 PM	#2654 (permalink)
cdoxp800 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: FL Posts: 1,337 Drives: 2011 Nismo Rep Power: 18	Pick me up a Sig 1911 traditional. Cannot wait to fire some rounds with it. 1911 Traditional Reverse Two-Tone BlackZeda likes this. __________________ 2011 Brilliant Silver NISMO 370z. #: 0046. PPE LTH \| MillSpec Cats \| F.I Exhaust \| Akuma Intakes \| Rotora 6/4 Brakes