Not testing positive as in antibody positive test. Positive as in re-infected, with symptoms.

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Oh

Wasn’t clear in the UK Times article.

That’s worrying


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Makes me wonder if they were truly recovered in the first place.

Correct. Virus tests.

This is why antibody testing is still unclear / inconclusive.

WHO has said that there is no solid evidence as to whether or not you can be re-infected. Seems as though it is likely that you can.

Also, there have been asymptomatic cases that tested positive twice - 24 days apart. This is a virus test. So, were they infected twice or did they carry (therefore potentially contagious) for 3+ weeks (in which case the 2 week quarantine is insufficient). Two independent studies (though one is Chinese) from February have shown this. The WHO still believes these to be re-infections, hence they have not changed their guidance (yet).

Meanwhile, Democrats be like “you go, dudes.”
:rofl2:

Personally, I am sick of all this. I naturally social distance. The economy is going to hell, folks are loosing everything. Time to go back to work. The USA can't afford this much longer.

Talking to a neighbor today. She's a nurse at the local hospital. 1/4 of the staff has been laid off. :wtf: Said that a lot of the other hospitals have staff laid off too. :icon14:

:confused::confused::confused:

Smart, yeah let's cut off the jobs that are probably the most essential with this sh!t….:shakes head:

My opinion is that China needs to be held accountable.

Depends on why they were laid off I suppose. If they're unionized and don't have proper PPE, then maybe it makes sense.

Not having the proper PPE is one thing, though I'm not sure why a hospital wouldn't have this, but to lay off bc of a union? Trained and educated medical staff to save lives, but get laid off for BS situations lmao

US had been underinvesting in the healthcare system for years, they also outsourced these essentials to China for the sake of saving money. Now it is coming back to bite them hard. We can start working when we bring the numbers down and have masks ventilators and PPE for the hospital workers.

It is because of them unable to do elective surgeries from what I read. Who knows. Working for a hospital is horrible from what some RN's have told me.

I do too, but what do we get for rushing back to work while the virus is still raging and untreatable. A few more weeks of paycheck before everyone either get sick or they shut it down? The waiter at the diner will still be unemployed, the restaurant will still be empty and the mall will not have enough traffic to sustain itself. You literally have the same problem as we do right now except for more sick people. You might say you won’t spread it to anybody. That’s great. Well Leslie down the street might not be as consider or as smart as you are.

I would rather be an out of work RN than an out of work engineers, jobs are easier to find

You already had this virus? If I missed it can you post your test kit showing that you did? Or any proof you did??

Yeah you are saying you had this. No big deal and compare it to the flu. Why don’t you get reinfected with it. Have a actual test to prove you are infected and please document your experience on you tube. It’s the only way to be sure.
validate everything you know about it and your personal experience of recovery. Please educate all us non believers and believers. It’s the only way to be sure due to you knowing so much. Also, if you can prove anything you are saying by being infected and document it... I will buy you a bottle of whatever your poison is after recovery. Seems like your a fighter and have plenty of spirit. What do you have to lose?

Yep, the lack of work. My doctor's office has laid off 3/4 of his staff. Not seeing anyone in the office. Everything is by phone.

Im almost certain that dr's can charge more if they do telemedicine appointments (with video) vs over the phone.

Part of what makes this situation so unpleasant is there is no good answer for how best to deal with it. No matter what you do, you create disaster.

Social distancing works to reduce the spread of the illness - it also creates an economic impact that we still have not yet totally grasped. The pressure on the unemployed has to be absolutely tremendous. Yet to simply open the floodgates and allow free employment again risks transmission, not just in the workplace, but with everyone with whom you have contact.

I take it very seriously. I also admit I don't have answers, and I would not willingly be the governor of any state right now.

Exactly, some folks talk like the government is trying to wreck the economy on purpose. They did it because they have no choice. If anything, they had to overreact after not doing anything for a month as they couldn’t spoof the market.

Given the impact of economic realities on the political process, it does seem very unlikely to me that any governor went into this willingly sabotaging their state. They are aware that their chances of reelection hinge upon their perceived competence in the midst of this crisis. Perceived competence, in turn, is often linked to the financial prosperity of the constituency.

FTFY :tiphat:

But if you look at it on a national level and in our current political environment, it CAN very well be said that the hype of the corona virus is being amplified to put fear in people. Close the economy = ruin the economy (which it already is for generations to come). So close to a presidential election.

Like you said "their chances of reelection hinge upon their perceived competence in the midst of this crisis". Nothing but negative reports on the Administration from MSM. Its political.

I'll admit there's some conjecture here but I'll try to explain.
Two scenarios.
In the first, you're an RN and part of a union.
In the second, same but no union.
There's insufficient PPE resulting in a work refusal.
Which nurse will either be fired or have to quit?
Which will be laid off?
Also, many hospitals are lacking necessary PPE.

You're debating an issue I didn't raise, deliberately. I'd rather keep the peace here, and tackle politics only as a concept, as opposed to attacking an individual party. I assure you that if I felt there would be any benefit in discussion, I'd participate quite ably - and I do not favor either the current administration, nor the one prior to it.

Suffice it to say that it would be naive at this point to assume that either party will not use this crisis (or any other) for whatever political gain they can scrounge from the wreckage.

I'm the 'duty guinea pig' in my household. I run the errands for my family & for my parents who are in their 80s. I've been around people that, according to them, tested positive for the CCP virus, they've had the symptoms, yet I didn't get it. That says one of two things, either I have a natural immunity to the virus or it is a disease that isn't as transmittable as people believe. :ugh2:


Something to think about. We know that the body reacts poorly to stress and that stress weakens the immune system. What happens if we are 'encouraged' to do something on an annual basis and then a high stress event occurs? Lots of people get sick and die. Good example, the "H1N1' flu in 2009. What happened during 2008 & 2009? The housing market exploded, people lost their homes. What does losing a home do to someone? Creates stress.... how many of those people that lost their homes got sick and later died from 'H1N1'?

What I'm saying is that we are being manipulated. We are taking what the media says at face value and no longer thinking for ourselves. The common cold is a coronavirus, yet we don't shut down the economy and our countries for the common cold. Viruses exist in the real world all the time, why is this one different? Answer: we've abandoned common sense and settled for the media pablum, choosing to assume that the media won't lie to us. Just because all the media is saying the exact same thing doesn't make it right. 95% of the media is owned by 6 corporations, why do you suppose that everyone of them is saying the exact same thing? Why are they supporting the ChiCom narrative that the virus came from the US and that the ChiComs are 'going to save the world'?

It's like Scully said in the X files... "the truth is out there.......... somewhere' :tiphat:

I wasnt insinuating that you were referring to the issue on a national level, but I think thats relevant in the discussion of whether or not to keep the lockdown in place, or to what extent this should continue. :tiphat:

Some people out there believe some ridiculous stuff when it comes to the virus being transmitted. And they don't need the media to hype it for them.

It's a cold virus and transmits like a cold virus. It's easy to get it but there are also very simple precautions you can take that do an excellent job in preventing transmission. There's no reason we can't start sending people back to work in some states in some industries with these proper precautions. The return to work should be staged based on the ability of the industry and operations to enact the necessary safeguards. The easier it is and the lower the risk, the quick the return to work.

Many operating essential businesses are already employing these precautionary methods. It's large assembly gatherings that are going to be the toughest to bring back. Live music shows, sporting events, festivals, etc... are going to have some serious challenges.

Yup there is a bi-partisan effort to stop the economy, print out bunch of money, put 10% of the workforce out of work. They did it because they won the 2020 election.

The Wuhan virus is nothing more than the common flu, the images from Italy, Spain, China are deep fakes too right?

Do people actually believe this $hit?

Scary to think that some (many?) probably do!

No doubt that erring on the side of caution, and fear, is the right thing to do. Especially when you see people congregating en masse in NYC early in, only blocks away from where refrigerated trailers were being filled as temporary morgues. Some people, one has to hit more than once with an iron frying pan in order to get the point across. Unfortunately, those more considerate types are collateral damage as rules address the lowest common denominator.

I honestly don't see many bars, clubs, small restaurants coming out of this. Here, unofficially, radio stations who sponsor concerts are generally saying not to expect tours to re-start until summer or fall of 2021. So promoters, and all of the infrastructures (from venues to security to rentals to advertising) will be affected.

It will be very interesting to see how sporting events are handled. Playing to closed houses isn't the same. And there are still large numbers of support people required to stage televised sporting events, for whom social distancing is not possible. I doubt many teams want to risk their expensive players for unknown rewards, either.

If you dont think corona virus is being used as a political tool, youve got blinders on.

There is a huge difference between politicians using disasters to earn brownie points (CA-AB828) than shutting down the state during a disaster. CA and TX are both in shelter in place...

You like to think everything is political, but there are a lot of people who don't care about the left or right. People who blames everything on politics are the ones who have a political agenda.

Oh..... you mean the 'altruistic' people that only want to help humanity......:rofl2:

Its not that I "like to think everything is political", it that this issue is. Back during the State of the Union address, Trump began to sound the alarms about the virus. What did the Dems do? They said that trump was trying to distract from the impeachment hearings. Then he wanted to close the borders, what did the Dems say? That Trump was being a racist xenophobe. Now that the seriousness of the virus is on full display, the Dems are now saying Trump didnt do enough soon enough.
Tell me that ISNT political.

Yes it was, but he could have done it without them. This is the same person that is pushing for his supporters to rally everywhere now. Both extreme sides are dumb and stupid :shakes head:, happy?

I'm afraid that what your president has SAID on the matter is quite different from his actions on many occasions. This is not me being political. Just pointing out that what the other side said might, in some cases, be quite valid. And sometimes also gets twisted by new sources, just as what he says does by others.

For instance, closing the border with China probably was described as xenophobic, But since the virus was already worldwide by then it was also not a coherent policy decision. So, maybe it was really more of a political move in support of his wider trade war?

By the time of the closing of the border and the SOTUA, the world knew about the virus for a month. Media in other parts of the world were "sounding the alarm" for some time already.

There will be plenty of political fodder for the vultures of both sides to pick at once this train wreck is all over. I only wish that they could cooperate for long enough to get us there. In that respect (the fact that each wants the other to wear this), it is a political pawn. And because of that, I think you should hold trials, rather than an election this November. Those found worthy in a court of law would be allowed to run for office. The others all given covid laced popsicles to suck on!

We are in a classic dammed if you do, dammed if you don’t scenario. And the problem is we’ve been trying to have it both ways and failing to an extent bc of it. The only two real options have always been, China model, aka brutal lockdown and literally wait it out. Or, do nothing and ride it out in an attempt to preserve the economy (somewhat) at the expense of citizens lives, how many, tbd. The US is doing halfassed quarantine measures, even the most stringent areas don’t really come close to other more totalitarian countries, so that drags the pain both medically and economically out over a longer period. One of the main reasons for that is the whole mentality of a free society (not a bad thing, but it can create hurdles in situations like this, individual liberty vs common good health wise). Put it at a personal level, would you sacrifice your wife or child so someone half the country away can make his next mortgage payment or buy diapers for his new baby. See, no good or “right” answer to that. Americans, in my experience really have a hard time with these type of dilemmas bc we tend to have a very adolescent view of the world, up vs down, black vs white, good vs evil, communism vs capitalism. Sometimes this is accurate and when it is, we Americans tend to rise to the occasion and lead and do well, think WWII for example. The problem is our leaders and media try to place everything into this type of box and this pandemic is a perfect example of how that is failing us. Times like these require strong, courageous leadership to make the case for whatever the perceived “best” path forward is and then drag the whole country in that direction by sheer force of conviction and logical persuasive arguments. History would prove that person right.

I had more to say but I just forgot my train of thought...


Hang on ghost, earlier you said this virus killed millions based on Chinese cell data or something to that extent, now your saying it isn’t that deadly. Which is it? It can’t be both an underreported mass causality event cover up in China and also much ado about nothing and a liberal conspiracy to take away our freedoms cause it’s just another “common cold” or flu. Gotta stick to one conspiracy narrative man. :tup:

I do agree that in the USA, our quarantine/social distancing guidelines etc, how each area deals with this should be tailored to that specific area and not a one size fits all approach. HOWEVER, that only works if there is total lockdown on freedom of movement outside of each persons local area. This actually would have been the best way to do a quarantine here, case by case exemptions for goods only, military/national guard enforce and back local Leo’s but inside your “zone”, you are able to live as normally as the pandemic lets you. Ie, nyc would be very different than rural Kansas zone and both would be still different from medium size town zone and each zone would have to adjust for fire as the conditions on the ground changed. This would have less day to day impact on people and preserve some freedom of movement etc, but it would on principle be a hard pill for Americans to swallow. Less economic impact as well but there’d still be very serious effects, which govt bailout $$ would be used to mitigate as needed.

Closing the border to China could or could not have been a move to put pressure on China with regards to the trade war (doubt it though, because commerce was not blocked... but Chinas manufacturing had been halted from their shutdown). Regrdless, it was the right move. Then a few weeks later, he closed the border to Europe when Italy's cases began to go up. And again was called a xenophobe.

The biggest issue with the current admin imo, was the pissing away of the opportunity they had to ramp up preparations during dec to feb timeframe. Also this apparent unwillingness to really utilize the dpa to the extent needed, always seems too little to late. Apparently bc of free market principles more than anything else, there are two things that trump capitalism imo, health and national defense, you don’t give up fighting a war that could result in lose of freedom cause it’s too expensive, no price is too high to ensure liberty, but our rich entitled elites seem to think that price only includes poor and working class/middle class blood, not their portfolios. Also, poor health outcomes eventually results in poor economic outcomes, unless of course, you just offshore all the labor, then to hell with regular folks ability to access quality health care, let those mutherfvckers eat cake. Not advocating for single payer necessarily, but we need massive health care reform and a drastic reduction in health care costs at every level.