Exactly this. Its not that our chassis is terrible, its that its specifically terrible for application of high horsepower to the pavement. In fact, the worst I have personally experienced (excluding FWD).

Point taken. I've just recently been reading more complaints about it over in that drag racing thread. I've had good even wear pattern at stock-ish negative camber (more negative than stock actually, just from lowering the car when putting in coilovers) using street tires (Hankook RS3) on a road-course.

But my recent experiments with running real race slicks have been showing related issues even in road-course cornering, as shown here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9O2...B6N0g2NHJVU2s0 . Basically my inside rear wheel is lifting at the outer edge (front too, but not as badly, and not leading to uneven tire wear). At first I thought about reducing the camber, but the camber looks good on the other side of the car where it really counts. I think I'll have to just run stiffer springs to run slicks (well, I can probably get some help just from running stiffer damper settings, but stiffer springs are the better solution).

The rate of camber gain increases with control arm angle. If you raised the suspension up some, you would get less camber during the same compression travel. Obviously this would raise your center of gravity and probably cause a little more compression though. Ideally, keep the car low without effecting baseline control arm angle... raise the rear crossmember, or raise the wheel bearing in the spindle (drop spindles)

This is why I use 18" wheels and 645mm diameter tyres ..... it gets the car low (lower CoG) with (relatively) standard suspension arm angles.

Since I am not FI, I can get away with 265/35 fronts and 275/35 rears (on 9.5: rims).

To make a car "work" its tyres, you need to increase spring to the stage where it becomes uncomfortable as a DD, which is "just" another compromise when tracking a DD.

You can see here at a recent event where I have loaded the left side and it is planted, but the right side front is only running on (maybe) half the tyre given the roll induced into the car (pic taken at T8 which is 6500rpm in 5th so the car is honking at that stage and the suspension stays loaded for 4-5 seconds.

Phillip Island Photography / Motorsport Photography : Team 25 - Les Pilots DAncien MG : A64H1040

I am running max of front bar and minimum rear bar with the progressive springs that came with KW3 dampers and since the PI surface is "smooth" I also run a lot of bump and rebound to keep the car stiff and work the tyres.

I hadnt considered how smaller diameter tires would lower the car without changing control arm angles

So is any manifold for a 370 ever going to see fruition?

One of these days I am sure! My car has just been sitting around with big tires waiting for the weather to clear up and head to the drag strip. After that, I am done with it for the year and tearing it down to finish the intake manifold.

It just hasnt been much of a priority since the engine already appears to perform so well with the stock manifold. Engine builds have turned out to not be very popular at all for the 370z, and a stock engine probably isnt going to really benefit from an aftermarket intake manifold.

Charles, Ive been calling you the last week but no pickup. did you change your office number?

Also, reply to my text messages! :mad:

I have been out a lot the last week. But I have no text messages from you!

I can't speak for the others, but I have been waiting for an intake manifold for quite some time now. I jumped on the M370 hoping that it would be what I wanted, but that is not case. I sincerely hope you do complete your manifold project and make it available to the community!

Me too it's the one mod we don't have for this it would sell well!

Hey phunk, Do we have to show up at your shop with a 12 volt battery, jumper cables, and a quart oil to jump start your a$$? :D

LOL would it really sell that well even if it was dyno proven to accomplish almost nothing on a stock engine?

Do you guys really just hate how the stock manifold looks that much??? stop looking at it :)

Everyone is just trying to make their car look the best they can and the engine bay is seriously lacking in eye candy. With the onset of polymer covers, be it for the valves, or airbox, engines have really lost their appeal. There are a few out there that aren't terrible, but most just look like crap.

Charles why you keep thinking that the stock manifold is good as it is?
There is a reason why Nissan made completely different manifold for their flagship vehicle the GT-R in material and design wise.

Im pretty sure your manifold will do a lot more than looking "cute".

The evidence that the stock manifold does really well shows in the dyno graphs this car is able to produce. Guys are making over 350rwhp all motor. That is well over 100hp per liter, and that is with only a 7600 rpm redline.

Intake manifolds are a lot like camshafts, there is no perfect geometry. You can shift the power around with different manifold specs... but unless you started with a really poor design to begin with, you are not going to make power without losing it somewhere too. Manufacturers have overcome much of this effect in camshaft tuning by engineering variable valve timing, lift, and duration systems. Intake manifold geometry can also be variable, but it is not cost realistic for the basic aftermarket performance industry at this time. Most factory equipped variable manifold geometry is hokey at best. Space constraints is one of the largest factors to overcome in manifold design for factory production vehicles. Nissan did a pretty good job with the VHR intake manifold and its packaging. Ugly or not, it works well.

The GT-R manifold is different because its a different car. The GT-R manifold looks like it is built with more torque in mind. Probably because the car is heavier, has a lot more drivetrain drag, and uses a DCT transmission which has some characteristics similar to driving an auto trans. It is also a lower compression engine than the VHR. The GT-R needs more help in the torque department than the 370z does in order for it to feel motivated and exciting.

I suspect that putting the VR38DETT intake manifold on a VHR engine would result in a loss of power, but increase in throttle response and torque.

My manifold will do more than look pretty, but it is not being designed to compete with the stock manifold. Its being designed around a different set of priorities and it might come at a sacrifice of versatility. It is unlikely that I am going to beat Nissan at their own game on this one. I am building mine with different goals.

Honestly I don't give two shi+s at this point if I find something that out performs the factory intake manifold I need something that is more practical. Lets face it the plastic intake mani is proven to bulge at around 17lbs of boost. While you're right there might not be too many guys out there right now with high HP builds just yet that doesn't mean they aren't on the rise. There are several projects going on right now for guys looking to delve into the deep 600s. You already know you're going to market this from a bling stand point. You also already know that there are plenty people on the verge of needing this from a reliability standpoint(such as myself and potentially topgun depending on. How deep he pushes his, squeeze as well). I really really want one of these and right now it's looking like my only option is to blow up the factory ones until someone markets a stout solution.

I do hear that. You guys are going to need something no matter what for higher boost cars. Well its happening... I just took a break from it longer than I originally anticipated.

Haha you're a gentleman and a scholar Charles! My biggest fear with your talk of ditching the car for a new platform is the car will go and. . . Uh oh back to first base! Im hunting for a Kinetix intake mani for now to hold me over but I would much rather spend the 2000 I'm expecting to spend on something that's still supported by its creator.

I have yet to dress up my engine bay..........but it will happen eventually. I hope Charles doesn't jump ship on the Z. He is making good power (with his car) and has some of the key upgrades available (that I still need to purchase).

I don't think that hell stop supporting what he already has! He's continued to produce copious amounts of fuel delivery parts for the FD and Z33 but it's just hard to do design and R&D a part without having the car you're designing it for. Granted I'm sure he's got plenty of friends with Z34s they would let him have hell I even offered to take my car the 8 hour trip for him to do it on. He's got options though I'm positive of that so I guess I can't be too honestly worried about it.

I wont stop producing existing things for the car if I sell mine... but it would make developing anything new for it difficult. I actually do not know anyone else in the area with a 370z!

But either way, my car isnt leaving before the intake manifold is done. It just may or may not get the engine build.

I am sort of in the area. LOL

Wow, I just read this whole thread and I'd like to see it come to fruition like others here...I have the "know how" to build a "very capable" intake manifold but I will admit I Do Not have the capital it would take to see it through, beginning to end, especially for the cnc machine and dyno time. I've helped in prototype a few different intake manifolds for TRD 10 years ago for their effort in the formula atlantic series, props to
Phunk for even attempting this'😉

~Reagan

Straight swap...I'm sure without proper tuning is would drag *** to make a power curve to redline...

Many of us are tuned and anyone willing to fork over anything north of 2k is ready to be tuned...:tup:

If anything don't recreate the wheel, just make it shiny and metal....make a mold of the OEM manifold and make the cavity of the manifold a mm larger or as much as can be afford while retaining the strut bar!

Screw the strut bar...lay waste to it while you at it...start designing and make a TI strut bar!

We OG's like expensive things

:tiphat:

If the current weather forecast for the next couple days is accurate, it looks like the Z will be back in the shop this weekend to start working on the intake manifold again.

Boom!

Thread bump. I am interested in purchasing a fabbed manifold, mostly for bling purposes. I wouldnt worry so much about gaining HP as I would not want it to lose HP.

I've had it with this waffle.

Phunk (charles?) PM me if you are still working on this and willing to fab something up for the VQ35HR. I am willing to pay. Even as Rod (Kingbaby) stated, even a manifold that is a mold of the OEM with some shinny metal and piping will do.

I intend to start a new thread this week about the official project!

I have some questions I need to ask all of you, because there are a few decisions that need to be made regarding compromises between cost and ease of fitment and appearance.

Can't wait'

~Reagan

OK Well I was unable to start a thread this week... between a batch of VHR fuel rails that were fighting back the entire time and removing / cleaning / packaging my greddy turbo kit for shipping, on top of the typical weeks work... i just couldnt get deep into making an official thread this week. I am leaving town tomorrow and coming back Tuesday.

Really there are 2 major decisions to make that are currently keeping me from running full speed ahead.

1: Continue with adapter plate based design, or run all the way down to the cylinder heads.

2: How to deal with the oil filler neck and cap.


Now that I have a "good" aluminum casting source, I am not really bothered to just go all the way to the heads.

Going all the way to the heads will allow for a more optimized and controlled runner shape, length, and taper. It will also be slightly lighter weight. It will cost more, and take longer. Precisely how much more and how much longer is difficult to gauge. Its not the CAD design work I am worried about, its the prototype to production casting process I fear will take much longer to finalize. This direction will almost definitely require proprietary fuel rails.

Leaving it as it is, and adapting to the factory lower intake runners will cost a little less and can be finished up a bit quicker. The adapter design is already "done" and fits, and if I use it, I only intend to make some minor improvements to it (along with adding a 3rd fuel rail option). I could have a fabricated prototype done in a week or two. This would allow existing rails to be used, meaning no major fuel system reworking.

As for the oil filler neck. It is *directly* in the way of cylinder 1. To work around it will mean compromises in the runners and plenum shape. I have some ideas for working around it but it would certainly be "easier" to cut it off. I put that in quotes because its obviously easier as far as the intake manifold... but now it requires removing the valvecover to cut it off and block it off, and then an alternate oil filling location has to be improvised. I expect a new valvecover from Nissan is probably around $200-250.

Once I come to terms on these issues, I can move along pretty quickly. Most of my boundaries are already in CAD... so once I know exactly where I am headed I can finish the drawing and start building.

Hurry up, Charles, we all need this soooo bad! :)

I see what you did there.

^ lol

Subb'd. I need this!:stirthepot:

Oil filler is blocking your design? must be something good and amazing to look at.

I say screw the oil filler and make the runners all the way to the heads. Maybe even make a billet valve cover and change the location of the oil filler, so no more cutting and probably avoiding human mistake from DIY :)

We would probably offer valvecovers already modified as an option if we go that route.

Billet valvecovers are something we could make. I do not have the time to draw them in CAD but I think I could get Brandon to do it for me LOL. That is actually the easiest type of product to make since after the reverse engineering of the stock part, the design work is nearly complete. But I will start that conversation off with it known we would seek probably $2000 for billet valvecovers. I am not sure that is a very practical product for the VHR community since it would be a cosmetic only thing, and I am not sure how much visual impact it would really have on the engine bay since its partly concealed.

Our VQ35HR engine came in today... needed that before moving ahead on the intake too quickly since want to make sure what we build will fit both engine or only need a different adapter flange.

Charles:

You're HR intake manifold developments is causing a stir on the Nismo 350z and HR Z facebook pages. Looks like there is some serious interest in an intake manifold for our cars.

Just letting you know!

To give you input, I think any design approach that enhances quality and performance is a plus, but it's notable that whatever approach is taken, the less priced option might be best from a sales stand point.

theres always interest the problem is guys who will actually cough up for it when they get the $3-6k price tag for something really good. Greddy has a hard time pushin hat on there GTR manifold.

Greddy has stiff competition too with the boost logic manifold and now the new AMS manifold. GT-R is mostly dominated by state-side builders.