ITB's?

Crash · 06-30-2009, 03:15 PM

Geezus... Look, you CAN make ITBs work, but it'd be pointless on this motor unless you can change the intake profile on the VVEL. Yes, you can make the VVEL handle them better, but all you REALLY need on this motor is a bigger air inlet since the throttle bodies don't have anything to do with the intake system. Getting the ITBs to fit would require making VERY long primary runners which can increase torque a lot but you won't see as much help with HP.

I'd suggest that someone removes the blades from the throttle bodies to increase CFM and see how that goes first.

regisbou · 07-05-2009, 07:21 PM

Ok so it shoudnt be done. I get it.

I like the idea of removing the flap/valve in the throttle body.

And for the NA vs. FI argument...its just common sense.

Better throttle response = quicker acceleration at any speed.

Permitted both cars are running at the same RPM or in their respective power band the NA setup will always smack an FI setup as long as the HP variable are similar. 360NA vs 370FI 360 NA wins.

On a road track is where the NA setup will win as long as the HP variables are similar. Coming out of a corner (after the apex) if the throttle is applied at the same time with FI vs NA the NA will respond quicker giving it more of an advantage.

They did a test with 2 civics (yes I know civics but they are still cars so dont bother LOL) one was a B18 with 230hp NA and the other was a B18 with 250hp. The turbo was slower by .8 seconds on the track.

I do not have the link because I read this in a Magazine a while back at Barnes and Nobles (bookstore).

When you shift you loose boost unless you have the new porsche turbine that has continously variable turbine blades (intake side). It produces boost at Idle since it forces the blades to spin during any vaccum.

So on a road track where a car shifts all the time the NA setup will shave seconds off of the FI time provided it is the same driver with the same technique. Because the power curve is the same at all RPM every shift as the dyno sheet states (NA) it is more advantageous to a turbo, whereas with a turbo the power curve varies while shifting because of loss of boost when depressing the clutch etc..

I thought turbo was the most beneficial as well but I was proven wrong and that is why I praise the NA route.

Formula 1 is NA for a reason, at least that's what my dad told me.

So in absolute technicality if a 200hp 160 trq NA setup were to race a 200hp 160trq turbo setup without a DOUBT the NA will win if its on the same track using the same gears, shifting technique etc.

in good regards,

Regis

Oh and for those wondering ITB's with a turbo setup is very beneficial as well.

But for the NA setup to be king vs the FI setup it must be ITB's otherwise throttle response is scarified...it should still theoretically win but ITB's or ICR's (little carburetors with velocity stacks setup like ITB's...common for motorcycles prior to 2001) have crazy response.

KingDavid · 07-06-2009, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by regisbou

Formula 1 is NA for a reason, at least that's what my dad told me.

Oh there's a reason alright. They made F1 cars N/A because they made way too much power and were way too fast while turbo. I believe they were north of 1800hp or so. I don't remember.

The fastest and quickest cars in the world are F/I. Period. I'm actually wondering what fool would get a turbo kit and only leave it at 370whp or so if they can get MUCH more from the motor with a better setup.

06-30-2009, 03:15 PM	#1 (permalink)
Crash A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,853 Drives: 02 Corvette Z06 Rep Power: 590	Geezus... Look, you CAN make ITBs work, but it'd be pointless on this motor unless you can change the intake profile on the VVEL. Yes, you can make the VVEL handle them better, but all you REALLY need on this motor is a bigger air inlet since the throttle bodies don't have anything to do with the intake system. Getting the ITBs to fit would require making VERY long primary runners which can increase torque a lot but you won't see as much help with HP. I'd suggest that someone removes the blades from the throttle bodies to increase CFM and see how that goes first. __________________ 2002 Corvette Z06 - Totaled 2003 Corvette Z06 50th Anniversary

07-05-2009, 07:21 PM	#2 (permalink)
regisbou Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 22 Drives: 06 Scion Xa Rep Power: 17	Ok so it shoudnt be done. I get it. I like the idea of removing the flap/valve in the throttle body. And for the NA vs. FI argument...its just common sense. Better throttle response = quicker acceleration at any speed. Permitted both cars are running at the same RPM or in their respective power band the NA setup will always smack an FI setup as long as the HP variable are similar. 360NA vs 370FI 360 NA wins. On a road track is where the NA setup will win as long as the HP variables are similar. Coming out of a corner (after the apex) if the throttle is applied at the same time with FI vs NA the NA will respond quicker giving it more of an advantage. They did a test with 2 civics (yes I know civics but they are still cars so dont bother LOL) one was a B18 with 230hp NA and the other was a B18 with 250hp. The turbo was slower by .8 seconds on the track. I do not have the link because I read this in a Magazine a while back at Barnes and Nobles (bookstore). When you shift you loose boost unless you have the new porsche turbine that has continously variable turbine blades (intake side). It produces boost at Idle since it forces the blades to spin during any vaccum. So on a road track where a car shifts all the time the NA setup will shave seconds off of the FI time provided it is the same driver with the same technique. Because the power curve is the same at all RPM every shift as the dyno sheet states (NA) it is more advantageous to a turbo, whereas with a turbo the power curve varies while shifting because of loss of boost when depressing the clutch etc.. I thought turbo was the most beneficial as well but I was proven wrong and that is why I praise the NA route. Formula 1 is NA for a reason, at least that's what my dad told me. So in absolute technicality if a 200hp 160 trq NA setup were to race a 200hp 160trq turbo setup without a DOUBT the NA will win if its on the same track using the same gears, shifting technique etc. in good regards, Regis Oh and for those wondering ITB's with a turbo setup is very beneficial as well. But for the NA setup to be king vs the FI setup it must be ITB's otherwise throttle response is scarified...it should still theoretically win but ITB's or ICR's (little carburetors with velocity stacks setup like ITB's...common for motorcycles prior to 2001) have crazy response. Last edited by regisbou; 07-05-2009 at 07:43 PM.