Is it really worth putting a Cold Air Intake on 370z and what HP gains
 

Hello to everyone ! I just picked up a new 2012 370z with manual transmission with the sport package. I chose it over a new corvette LT1 that I tried to pick up earlier in the week and had its paint job ruined by car detailers (completely scratched the entire clear coat on the vette). I was so pissed I stopped at the nissan dealer next door, drove the Z and loved it. Glad I did, overall the Z seems better designed and more refined than the vette, with more than enough HP and speed. Also $15K cheaper out the door than the vette.

On to the question, do you really think the cold air intakes are really worth the money and do you really get real world HP gains.

One thing a lot of ppl. don't know about these external air filter systems is that while they do flow more air they also tend to let more dirt into your engine. I come from a sport bike background and early sports cars for 30yrs.

What we found out about oiled air filters is that while they may work good when new, after about a year of use on the vehicle they became very dirty and when we cleaned them, we were never able to get them completely clean. What we found was that there was a lot of dirt or grit inside the air filter and we were never able to get rid of it.

If we reinstalled the oiled air filter this dirt would have been sucked directly into the engine. Note we correctly cleaned it from the inside out, as not to allow any dirt into the inside of the air filter.

To play it safe we went back to a stock disposable paper airfilter element.

What a lot of ppl. forget is that the airfilter is meant to protect the engine from dirt and its best to install a new airfilter every few thousands of miles.

Another interesting note is that the use of external air filters style on sport bikes were abandoned, about 15yrs. ago after it was found that they really didn't provide any real hp gains over use of the stock air box and filter.

This was due to the fact that big 4 jap bike manufactures put so much design effort into the tunned intake air tracks on most sport bikes, that most after market air filters actually reduced HP when used.

While a lot of ppl still buy these external and internal oiled filter types on sport bikes, they do so because they really don't know how they work in real life driving environment.

Yes it's very so worth it. I highly recommend the Stillen Gen. 3 But I would highly suggest doing a search here. Plenty of threads on CAI with proven dyno results. Welcome to the forum.

I opted for drop in air filters over a cai. The few horses you pick up wasn't worth spending $500+ IMO.

here was my dyno results with just the gen 3 cai...dont have a base line to compair it tho. I defently felt a difference, thus making it worth it.
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p...9/DynoRuns.jpg

As for my EvoX theres a 5-7whp (dyno proven) increase between the SRI and the CAI...$250 difference. So in other words, if you are planning on squeezing every hp you can, its worth it. If you are on a budget, get the SRI.

Hey welcome & congrats. Sorry to hear about the Vette, but i'm sure the Z will provide plenty of smiles;). From what I've read, the Stillen G3 is the way to go for the best gains
I also have a GSXR750:yum: Are you on Gixxer.com? I'm Felix over there as well.

Enjoy the new ride:happydance:

Belonged gixxer.com until they started charging to get full access. Own a buell firebolt 1200, gsxr1000 and highly modded performance sportster. Selling most off to pay for the Z, after riding and racing bikes for 35yrs. its getting quite boring, Time to speed in comfort/style once again, helmet head and eating bugs, freezing and rain isn't bad in your 20's. But when your in your 50's it just plain sucks.

Fortunately I never took delivery of the vette, also found out the vettes run great till about 30-40k and start to develope engine and other problems. Just another reason not to buy american made cars.

I agree with that to the fullest. Coming from owning a Camero (flat out junk) and my dad owning a Vette. The Vette is not bad at all but something is different after 50K miles.

The sound alone makes it worth it.

I would do it again regardless of HP gain.
I did CBE too. Get at least one for HP gain. Combined their is a diminishing HP return. Still the sound makes it worth it each time I give it gas.
Zero regrets.

Yeah, different site since Brian sold it. Not over there too much anymore. Nice list of bikes. I hear you about the rain, but out here we have too many nice places & weather to ride:p so it never gets boring. Been on bikes for 30 years myself.


Well enjoy the Z, I sure am

:iagree:

K&N drop-ins + Z1 post MAF tubes :tup:

:tup:

Definite horsepower gain.
Zero drawbacks.
The stock system already pulls cold air from right behind the front bumper. All that's needed is to smooth out the airflow in the upper elbows.

Before you get the CAI's (which are great) be sure you are not going to go with Forced Induction in the near future. You will have to pull out your expensive intakes and throw them on the pile to make room for the intakes that come with the FI kit.

Can anyone provide a baseline before and after dyno charts for just the CAI alone, with the K/N typhoon or other similar kits. If these kits even provide a 5-6 hp increase such a small power increase is almost unable to be detected in the seat of the pants. Example a 5-6 hp increase only gives you .0018 hp/lb (3260 lbs 370z) and that takes into account the hp is the same across the entire rev. range. Such a small hp increase would not even be noticed except in a top speed, dyno run or 1/4mile drag in very small numbers. Usually it takes a lot more HP gains to really be felt on the street or normal driving example 25-50 HP gains.

Even on the bikes with a 5hp on the bikes isn't really noticed and your dealing with a 450lb bike and 200 lb rider for 650 lb total 5 hp increase = .0076 hp/lb compared to 370z (.0018 hp/lb)

To really feel the extra power of a substantial HP power increase, you need large amounts of HP/lbs of weight. example stock harley 883cc sportster puts out around 38 BHP stock and the simple install of larger 1/2" pistons makes it a 1200cc bike and gives you 65-70 bhp almost doubling the felt HP and it comes down to a 35 hp increase or .053 hp/lb increase compared to the .0018 hp/lb increase for the 370Z.

I would agree that a more substantial hp gains can be achieved if you were to completely remove the stock exhaust system and intake system and go with a full length header and exhaust combo and a racing ram air intake system, but you really can't run this type of system on the street, unless the car is an old muscle car excempt from smog testing.

What a lot of young drivers don't really know is that most of these bolt on HP kits, don't really provide any real world HP gains and are really just shiny bolt or louder muffers that give the driver a feeling of a power increase when they are really only sensing the louder noise as they accellerate.

Heres another example of a real world power increase in the 80's chevy came out with the 262 cu in V6 for their full size trucks, it probably made around 180 hp. I had a short bed 2 wheel drive 4 speed manual 262 cu in motor. With a stop watch the truck did 1-60 in 13 seconds (stock) after using a saws all removing the cat and stock muffer and replacing the aircleaner with a large filter housing from a 1960's style car and a dual cherry bomb exhaust, note the truck came with tubular steel stock headers that flowed pretty well. End result was that the truck did 0-60 10sec that and gas mileage went from 17mpg - 22 mpg highway. When I sold the truck I put everything back stock and once again timed it and it dropped to 13-14 sec for 0-60 once again. Note at resale no one wanted to buy a noisy moddified car or truck, used car buyers like everything left stock.

From Stillens web site http://www.stillen.com/product_files/402852~dyno.pdf

In all honesty it may be heard to feel a 5-10 hp gain, but it is still there. Plus as you slowly make it easier for the engine to breathe and start gaining hp you will notice a difference. If you go from 270whp to 300whp, I bet most people would notice a difference. At the same time if you do your mods one at a time and have a bit of time between each one, I think the sensation of the amount gained wouldn't be as much as if you bolted them all on at once. Just my opinion, but it sounds like you would be happier stock. There are always sacrifices you have to make for more power, the question you need to ask yourself is whether or not you are willing to make those sacrifices.

this, except i went w/ the Cosworth filters (no oil) :happydance:

http://www.cosworthusa.com/store/pc/...&idproduct=411

if you look at the stillen dyno chart you will see that the engine really doesn't make any real power gains until 6500 -7000 rpm and below that range it only makes between 5-8 hp increase, not a really that significant for a $1000 price tag. Also most ppl don't drive their cars close to redline.

Well, I guess you have pretty much answered your question. In your opinion the gains aren't worth the price, although i have never seen them selling for $1k. For somebody who is looking to get every last bit of hp out of their car w/o going to some sort of forced induction, these are probably the best bet. I personally went with the drop-ins and Post-MAF tubes. Eventually, I'll step up to the stillen intakes, but it probably won't be for a while.

:happydance:

ahh, nothing like a high reading dyno..lol.

ooooh nice! will be checking them out.


OP: the G3s tend to give power up top + i've seen where the air to fuel is thrown off. your best bet if doing something to the intake system is a MUST then you would be best off with the drop in filters + post MAF tubes. the VQ's intake system is already efficient so squeezing more HP out of it will be hard, IMO there are other places where HP is found aka HFC's or TP's.

^^ yeah, nobody else here has run them. it was the best performing drop in filter for the Evo X, so i figured i would guinea pig them in the Z ;)

btw, the 350Z filters fit the 370Z air box just fine. same part number.

That was the same conclusion I came to. I think the cai kits are around $500 though not $1k. Still not worth it unless you are out to try and squeeze every single possible horse you can out of the motor. And if thats the case you should be thinking turbos/supercharger...

:iagree:

i drove the car for the first time this morning w/ the Cosworth's. me thinks there's a slight improvement in throttle response below 3k rpm's. i'll have to check the good ol' butt dyno again this evening after work and report back :tup:

i just use the kn drop-ins and post MAF tubes on mine. works great for me..and not loud like the CAI's which is a plus (for me).

Turbo's work great when new, but after the mileage gets past 50K, they usually need replacement, due to impeller or bearing problems and even carbon build up.

They also put a lot of stress on the motor, they are good for racing apllications , but not that good for driving your car to high mileage standards.

I had an older 85 z turbo that had the turbo replaced 3 times in 40K miles, according to the original owners reciepts. I drove for about 10k and sold it.
Better to go with CUBIC INCHES or Stroking a motor as compared to turbo etc.

+1 - Tubes and drop ins...

and also dont forget, numbers shrink a bunch once other bolt ons are added (exhaust, HFC's or TP's...)

There's some gains on the paper, but in reality, I think it's more hp gain in your mind than on the wheel.

:tup:

If it's on paper then how the hell can it be just in your mind.:icon14::rolleyes:

'More', not 'All'.

That couple extra horses at the top end and the louder engine note, make you 'think' the car is much faster, that's what I mean.

:tiphat:

The noise my engine makes doesn't make it seem louder or faster,the 305hp at the tire handle that all by themselves. :roflpuke2:

Re: Dyno runs. A single run isn't all that meaningful. Do at least 3-5 runs with each mod, taking the average.

I was going to do the K&N's plus Post MAF tubes but they HPS tubes were back ordered and then I saw a good deal on slightly used Injen CAI's.

Knocking off $150 made it easier to go CAI. So getting more HP, more aggressive sound and a nice looking engine bay made it worth it to me.

Haha true. I'm in the boat of drop-ins and tubes though, and it would be great if we had dyno results for these. I'm really curious if they yield similar results for less than half the cost of CAI's.

i'm going to try to get a baseline and my cosworth's dynoed soon. i'll have post maf's by then as well

A lot of educated guys on here have modded this car way before many of us. I have modded both G35 and G37 and I am now modding the Z. From what I've learned from these great guys on here is your first mod will net you your largest gains. So if you put on an intake first you will see and feel close to 20hp which is felt. If you do a exhaust first your largest gains will be there. All secondary mods will gain you lower hp gains. This is what I know. Most autos run 13.1 to 13.4 stock. With full bolt on s the numbers drop to about 12.6 to 12.9 seconds on the quarter. On the manuals the average run is 13.3 to 13.6 completly stock. Add bolt ons and 12.8 to 13.2 second quarters become the norm.
Opnion #1
So going with complete bolt ons is worth it to some degree. The real question is... where do you want your gains to come from. Ok this ismy logic. To me, $525 on a CAI is not worth it for up to 18hp if my second mod will be an exhaust that cost somewhere between $1300-2200. Installing a quality exhaust like an FI, with post MAFS and a K&N intake filter set as the secondary mod is much more cost effective. The cost will be around $180 vs 525 on the post MAFs and will net the same exact gains than the guy who put the CAI first and the exhaust second.
From what I been able to notice though is the guys who opt for stillens and takedas vs. Post MAFS are they lose 3-12hp down low before the rocket backup to base line then gain another 12-14hp, thus giving them this false boost of 20+hp. The exhuast mod seems to drop the least hp before a rise and this is why I choose the exhaust as the first real mod over the intake. The intake in my opinion is the support mod which can be done more cheaply and efficiently than a full stillen G3. If you like the chromey look though and want to pull your front end off everytime you need to clean or replace your G3 filter? Then hey, be my guest. Me personally, I'm not risking the beauty of my cars front end from a cai that nets the same power gains as post mafs if I just start with my exhaust first than start with my CAI...
Disclaimer:
That's just an opinion and observation based on different cases on here. I do not promote or endorse my statement as a fact or a source for argument or rebuttal. Its just a personal opinion.
Opinion #2
In the end... we should all strive for some type of FI if we are serious about power gains? Any bolt on mod is just a base mod anyway.
Disclaimer applies here as well.

You make a great deal of sense. :tup: