F.I. Long Tube Headers Vs. PPE Long Tube Headers
 

Folks, I'm thinking of getting one of these LTHs down the road and was wondering whether those with experience with one or the other could chime in.

It seems like both are claiming to similiar whp gains. Do those who bought each one can post a dyno with just the LTH to prove it? Obviously both vendors have posted graphs but I would like to see one from those with them on their cars.

There's a huge price difference on both and one takes awhile to get while the other is readily available. Is there any other reason to buy the more expensive one (F.I.)? I'm just wondering because that is a huge price difference.


Not starting to cause a brand vs brand war here. Simply looking to see what the end users experiences and justifications to spend more. Thanks folks.

It's going to be hard to find someone to do an independent dyno with just the F.I. LTH's due to the fact the stock exhaust would be to restrictive for them and you will not see any gains. Most if not all of the people that buy them buy and have either already installed a CBE or in my case, had them both installed at the same time. The best you could hope to achieve with that is seeing what an FI LTH + CBE combo at the same time will net you.

As for the PPE Headers, I don't know how many people off the forum have them, but I know only of 2 or 3 people on the forum that do, and I haven't seen any Dyno's posted of just the headers yet.

In terms of going along with not wanting to start a brand v brand war, I would say to take a look into the FI LTH thread and see how many satisfied customers there are.

The thread is warranted and appreciated in my book.

I do not take it as a brand war. However I would like to clear one thing up. I have taken a long look at the PPE headers in a few different pictures and I have made it very clear observation. "They are not long tube headers, they are mid length headers!"

I am sure someone will defend them and say that I am wrong and that I am being biased. I assure you that I am not wrong nor being biased. I have built enough shorty's, Tri-Y's, mid length and long tubes over the years to spot what is what.

With that being said, I will answer your questions in the order that they were asked.

1. You probably will not find someone with just our Long Tube Headers and a stock exhaust. From a performance standpoint it is not good and from a sound standpoint it will be loud and rough!

2. I do not know where theres are made or how much they are selling them for, however I could take a few guesses if they are dirt cheap.:tiphat: My headers are priced very reasonable for what you are getting. They are custom built one by one out of 304 stainless steel. Even the sets I ceramic coat are 304 stainless steel, not mild steel! I have a long waiting list and this is the way it is.

I can assure you from all of the testimonials, the wait is worth it.

I appreciate the questions and if you have any further, please do not hesitate to call me directly...

Thank you,

F.I. has my vote as I've seen nothing but positive reviews and great dyno results. Plus the sound it makes is sexy :yum:

Thanks for the positve feedback!

PPE headers are actually more expensive if you want them in 304ss and ceramic coated. They advertise a +23whp gain on a nismo and there is member on here who says he got +20whp with a stillen CBE (no dyno sheet yet).

Tony what is the gain for your LTHs? (CBE vs CBE + LTHs), if you don't mind me asking? I am sure its posted somewhere, but I am on the phone and its a PITA to search lol.

So what exactly seperates mid length from long tube headers. Is it a measurement? Just curious. My vote would be FI from what I've seen.

I actually installed my headers (FI) with the stock exhaust and the sound was amazing, very exotic. The power Increase was there but only a butt dyno.

I have PPE SS and ceramic coated... and picked up great power but it was installed with a flywheel and re tuned... also had a new motor put in since last tune... soo a ton of variables... but I picked up 20whp when it was all said and done.. I will post a chart this evening as I am home from vacation and free the rest of the night..

I got mine used off the black nismo on PPE's site... they make a ton of headers for Toyota and lotus.. they even have a set for the IS-F and they are not that cheap.. I got mine used for a great price... new I am not sure I would of gotten them going into the install blind like I did but I am very happy... I will post a chart soon !

the problem with my currect graph is that TQ is on one side and a/f is on other, they forgot to change it to HP so you can not see the HP numbers, but the max avg and another reading is on the bottom of the mustang dyno print out.. I will get one with HP soon

http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/22...600x600Q85.jpg

click on the picture to go to the webshots site, than hit the magnifying glass...

the air fuel line goes way up into the TQ and makes it confusing, I need to get a clearer graph printed with HP written on the side as well.. but you can clearly see the increase in HP in the upper RPMS, and on the bottom it says MAX and AVG numbers

I did my baseline and came out to 248hp/210 tq. After installing F.I. LTH + CBE, Cobb Post MAF Tubes and K&N Drop ins, I was at 283hp/230tq. On a 7AT in 4th gear, due to gearing limitations a 5th gear run isn't possible pre-tune. But basic math alone says thats a gain of roughly almost 40hp/20tq. Not bad without a true intake or a tune. Which is my next two steps... I know environment changes but here it's always a constant <90*F so I'm not worried about temp variance, and both runs were done on a Mustang Dyno.

Chris those are real nice gains. Again mine are over test pipes but all the fi dynos look great as well.

But chris why didn't they monitor your a/f?

Great Thread

Props on the F.I. on being active!

Cause I wasn't doing any tuning, it's just pure number pulls. Thats how they do it there. Once I get my intakes and pulleys, then I'll be ready for a tune.

I've also been wondering on the route to take. One thing that has been a factor in consideration is installation. From my understanding from chuckd05, the Ppe is much more involved to install. In his post before he referenced the shop having to pull the motor, where as they had done several FI without needing to.

I saw first hand that Tony and the rest of the guys at Fast Intentions can have your car up on the lift, remove your stock exhaust, remove your stock cats and headers (even with the demon bolt being a pain), take a lunch break, (swat away annoying customers trying to watch every step) :icon17: Install the headers, and install the CBE, then take a test drive. Pack all your stock parts back in your car, exchange payment, and have you back on your way all in less than 9 hours.

Amazing Sound, Awesome Fitment, Excellent Customer Service

The pita was getting the stock headers off. They have installed many sets and my car was the biggest pita to date. Just my luck. The headers went on just fine. The problem is getting the oem headers off.

If you look at the FI headers, they have 3 long individual runners/pipes that merge into into a single collector just before the flange. If you look at the PPE headers, they have 3 shorter runners/pipes that merge before the flange, and then have a single pipe that runs the last 3-4 inches. My guess, just by looking at them, is PPE did this to stay closer to an equal length on the individual runners, but I am not sure.

Those that have the FI headers and CBE, how is the noise level at cruising speed and "normal" accel? Drone, loud, etc...?

Under normal driving, you don't even notice a difference in the fact you have headers over just having a CBE. The only time you will notice a difference is if you get on it. The tone will be different. But the Volume will be just the same. "Drone" Is subjective, and only experienced around 1800-2300RPM's. Stay out of that powerband and you'll be fine. Other then that, when you want to know they're there... they let you know. The rest of the time, they stay reserved. :tup: The perfect sleeper.

Hi,
I see there are some questions about our headers for the 370Z. Here are a few of the benifits of our headers:

1. Our headers are designed on Solidworks 3D cad software for an accurate equal length tube design.

2. Tube lengths are designed for a specific power range. Just making them long with no specific length in mind is not ideal.

3. Our headers are stepped from 1.75" to 1.875" for increased power and flow.

4. Tubing is 16 gauge mild steel or 304 stainless steel depending on order. We offer mild steel headers as a less expensive option, but have sold many of the stainless versions too.

5. We use REAL racing collectors, not cheap formed tube collectors. Collectors are desgned at a 15 degree merge angle for optimal flow and reduced turbulace.

6. Our 304 stainless headers have 304 stainless flanges. They are 100% 304 stainless

7. We have a lot of experience building headers. We build 20+ header sets a month for 20+ moldels of cars. We have been designing header, exhaust and intake systems since 2001.

8. We use JetHot ceramic coatings. Their ceramic coatings are far superior to genaric ceramic coatings that most header builders use.

We did our initial testing on a stock 370Z with everything else being stock. We welcome others to do dyno testing of their own and post their results.

I haven't seen any headers available for the 370Z that are equal length, tuned or use a merge collector. I feel confident that our design is the best available right now.

We are also working on a 1/2 wave length header that had an integrated 5" round ceramic core cat. Applications will be for the 350Z, 350Z HR, and 370Z.

If any one has any questions, please call or email us at:
480-615-7900
sales@ppeengineering.com

I can say I am very pleased with the headers and I'm surprised that no one has tried these. I'm the only one I know of that has these long tubes. But there's 60+ with FI. mime are jet hot coated and seemed to be crafted beautifully.

I'd def recommend them from my experience. It also made my exhaust tone much cleaner and sound better. Plus the 21 hp I picked up over test pipes. A flywheel was also added at the same time but good power was gained for sure.

If everything goes well I should have them by the end of this week !
gonna be very busy next weekend with the install and then dyno tune on Monday July 4th

Chuck did your headers throw a CEL?

Nope, no CEL at all...

How many miles do you have on your ride since the install? Thinking of doing a little swap for $hits and giggles

anyone else got any comparisons on ppe vs fi?

Ppe gets my vote as they are equal length and Stepped. I've never tried either (so take my advice with a grain of salt). But I would almost put some money down saying PPE would make more power

Since this is open ended, it doesn't really help...

Do you mean more peak power, or more low end power? Different users might want different results.

from my understanding of both, PPE should have a little more power in the higher powerband than the F.I. but a little less in the lower end

but it wasn't proved yet .. hehe

below, pretty much answers it

should be like any long tube set up, and really help mid to upper rpm range power

Hmmm.

Want top end power, get the PPE's, want mid-low power, get FI's.

Our headers make good midrange and top end power gains. Our larger runners offer more flow, and we use a hand made merge collector with a choke/transition that brings up the midrange without loosing top end power gains. (Our new 2000 degree black ceramic coating also helps increase exhaust velocity too add a little more performance too)

Obviously I am a bit biased, but we have had several Pro race teams choose our headers including CWV-Rallysport, DWW Motorsports, and SFR Enterprises.

tbh i imagine both will make similar gains in the same areas (mid to high powerband), not saying fi's aren't great. i just am willing to say PPE's would make SLIGHTLY more because of their stepped design.

just my :twocents:

They really won't. The FI headers are great street parts, but their runners are too small to see large gains at the top of the rev range like the PPEs do.

I love F.I.'s exhaust, but the PPE headers are on a different level. The merge collector is a work of art. 15 degree angle, 5" smooth transition, they were tuned to a specific length to match the powerband of the motor, the black coating is just hawt. There is no bottom end loss, minimal gains, but the mid and top end lustworthy for an NA mod.

I refused to remove them when I wanted to go forced induction, so I spent more money to get something that fits around my PPE's ;)

Agreed with what's been said above. My low end gains were nice with the F.I.'s, but sacrifice top end numbers.

Can someone post dyno sheets? I'd like to compare curve patterns, I saw a PPE sheet with similar flattening at the top. I also read mixed articles on the benefits (or lack of) stepping. Both companies provided different info. Having said that, there is a local shop that works on many Zs. They've installed both FI and PPE and they are saying PPE are delivering better gains. This thread has not helped me pick one over the other. FI has a great reputation and I think Tony would be interested in evolving his header design if he thought they could be better. People above my post are making claims about collectors, materials, etc... Are these just opinions? Let the charts tell the story.

FI LTH power curve: (ignoring the actual numbers because of dyno variance)



To one from my PPE's (sorry, chart is a little 'busy' hard to see the traces)

Thanks, much appreciated. I see the PPE's continued to climb while FI plateau at 7k rpm. I see PPE's file says Nismo CAI, was the FI dyno run with a CAI as well? I've read that CAI helps at the very top of the band. If the FI run did not have a CAI, could this be the reason why it plateaus compared to the PPE?