I think ceramic coating might be worth it if you are going forced induction, but on a NA car I do not think you will hit any high temps which might cause issues. With long tubes you are getting better flow over all so you might see a slight reduction in temperatures in casual driving and probably <1% change, if any, in spirited driving.

Hmmm I'd love to see before and after data of ceramic coating tests

If Osiris couldn't tune timing, GTM wouldn't be using it for their 370 twin turbo and supercharger kits, and Stillen would not be using it for their supercharger kit. If Osiris was not controlling timing, 100% of these cars would have blown up by now.

I am just curious as to why he would recommend against heat-wrapping the headers. Wouldn't the ceramic coating pretty much do the same thing .. and yet that IS recommended?? Can you expound please?

Right, and I'm confused about this as well. When you take out the stock manifold, the heat shields come off. So you put in aftermarket headers and you don't have heat shields anymore. I asked him if we should wrap them then. His answer was no, because the better flow and design of the LTH's will reduce the temps, thus negating the need for heat shields. Then I read that he's offering ceramic coating, hence my confusion.

I emailed Tony last night, and his response to me was "The temps will be lower but the coating cannot hurt it will only help. The coating just keeps more of the heat in the tubing which is ideal for a force inducted application EPECIALLY turbochargers since they build power off of heat."

At this point, I'm under the impression that if you're planning to stay NA (as I am), it's really not necessary and an unneeded extra expense. But I'm waiting for Tony to confirm on that.

Update: I just spoke with Tony, and he has confirmed that if you're planning to keep your car NA, there is no need to ceramic coat. It will make no difference performance-wise (in an NA car), and the headers aren't near anything heat-sensitive like fuel or oil lines.

And if you plan on going SC later?

You can always take the headers off and have it done at a later date, which is what I will do if I go SC at some point.

ah makes sense

Once again I am thankful for your clarification Semtex.

F.I./Stillen Before & After UpRev
 

Here are my before and after results:

7AT with Stillen GENIII, F.I. CBE with HFC's, 18" resonators, CF mufflers

Before UpRev

Max TQ = 243.0
MPH = 68
RPM = 3267
Gear = 5th

Max HP = 267.4
MPH = 149
RPM = 7132
Gear = 5th

After UpRev

Max TQ = 248.0
MPH = 69
RPM = 3308
Gear = 5th

Max HP = 289.1
MPH = 144
RPM = 6877

The tune was done on an Xact Dyno which for those not familiar is a hydraulic dyno (no rollers)
Tuner said the car put out 342 HP on one pull in 4th gear :excited:

Also got the paint detailed (clay bar) and powder coated the Rays wheels black (car is magnetic black). Will post pics soon (wife agreed to pose with the car) :D

Wife should be satisfied for some time while I save up for a TT kit for when the new power she is experiencing wears off :rofl2:

I'm trying to read this and what I'm guessing is an increase in HP/TQ of:

Before After Difference
243 TQ 248 TQ +5 TQ
267 HP 289 HP +22 HP

Am I reading this right?

You are correct

Can you please post overlaid dyno sheets?

Will do as soon as I do a color scan

Hmm...those numbers seem a little low to me, considering (a) the mods you have, and (b) you used a hydraulic dyno, and those types of dynos are actually notorious for giving readings on the high side compared to normal roller-type dynos. It might have something to do with the pulls being done in 5th rather than 6th. I remember another member by the name of wstar went through the same issue. The problem, if I remember correctly, was that neither 5th nor 6th give a 1:1 gear ratio in the 7AT models. Never the less, you did get a nice gain, so congrats on that!

When it comes to dyno's, can you explain why they are done in the manner they are, neither in the lowest or the highest gear, and why you dont step up through the gears? I never completely understood that... :confused:

I must admit I was somewhat surprised also considering what Tony got on the LTH comparison runs from SpecialtyZ and also considering that the timing changes were kicked out by the ECM during the pulls with his customer. This tuner claimed that the timing changes (didn't reveal exactly what they were) he made were not kicked out. I asked him about the pulls in 5th and he said that 5th is closer to 1:1 than 6th or 7th which are essentially overdrive.
He was also really surprised at what the motor put out in 4th.

Oh shit?! I just realized yours is a 7AT also?!

AND your in Chandler! What's up! lol

Wow, those numbers hit closer to home now... Do you have any specific goal your trying to reach, or just as high as you can?

My understanding (and it could be wrong) is that you want to get as close to 1:1 for the TQ & HP readings to be truly 'real world' numbers. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will be able to provide a better/more accurate explanation.

Where are you doing your runs at? Have you gone to any particular shops over there? Being in Chandler you must know of INTENSEMotorsports right? Those guys are awesome!

I wish there were more shops over here on the west side. :ugh2:

Someone else could probably explain better, but I'll give it a shot. The purpose of a dyno is to measure power output. Now, the 'cleanest' way to do that is to take the engine out of the car and mount it to an engine dyno. But that's not exactly practical, right? So most people just dyno at the wheels. Not only is it a tad more convenient than taking your engine out, but you're also measuring how much power you're putting to the ground, which many would argue is what counts anyway. So, that being said, you want to get a reading from the wheels while in a gear that provides a 1:1 ratio, because a gear ratio of 1:1 means that the engine and the transmission’s output are moving at the same speed. You want the engine and transmission to be in synch in order to get an accurate reading. Does this make sense at all? Like I said, I'm sure someone else can do a better job of explaining this.

LoL I must have made myself sound like a dumbass...

I understand the reason behind a dyno and what it does for you, what I'm asking is why do they pick 1 particular gear (obviously now for the 1:1 ratio thanks semtex! :tup:) But I mean, does that give you the best Total output?

I'm just wondering for 'Practical' output... Say just like you would on a 1/4 mile, do a dyno thats actually going up through the gears just like you would in a race... Or would that be just completely retarded?

On the west side of what ? If you're talking about the west coast then you're crazy because there are a TON of badass shops there. Also if you're talking about AZ then there are still plenty there. They may not be Z only shops but there have been a few shops in AZ featured/mentioned in magazines such as Modified.

Yeah just West Valley... I live in Avondale, so like anywhere in Surprise or Goodyear, hell Glendale isn't too far of a drive. :ugh2:

Where are they at?

I sure hope that isn't a quote from Tony since I'm under the impression that LTH can't be used with turbo applications. I'm assuming he meant Supercharger but we all know the saying about assuming. :p

Hell don't get me lying, I could go back through the Modifieds that I have but that would take FOREVER haha. Maybe I'll look through a couple but I seem to remember something about Scotsdale being one of the locations.

Yeah, Scottsdale's just as far as Chandler lol.

No, he said turbo. I remember that clearly. BUT, I think at that point he was talking in general terms about the benefits of keeping as much heat in the headers as possible for turbo apps. Like he wasn't specifically talking about his LTHs being used in conjunction with turbos. He was just talking about why you'd want to ceramic coat headers in general if you have a turbo.

:iagree:

If you went up through the gears I think you'd just end up with a separate chart for each gear. Because think about a dyno chart. On the x-axis it has the rpm scale. So you go through 1st gear and there's one graph showing your hp from 2k - 7500 rpm. You shift into 2nd and there's another graph showing hp from 2k - 7500 rpm. And so on and so on. On a 6MT, you'd end up with 6 dyno sheets. 7 for those with the 7AT. As for why they choose the gear with 1:1, I don't think it's so much that it gives you the best numbers, but more that it gives you the most accurate numbers, seeing how engine and transmission speed are in synch with one another.

Actually, giving it a little more thought, if you ran through the gears, it look more like 1st gear: 2k - 7500rpm, 2nd gear: 4500 - 7500 rpm, and so on. Because it's not like your rpm is going to drop all the way down to 2k when you shift from one gear to the next at redline. Heck, depending on how quickly you shifted, it might only drop to, say, 5500 rpm.

So it doesnt just measure the HP/TQ curve as a whole, it just measures a specific gear? I used to think when you saw little dips evenly placed through a dyno, that was a 'gear shift' drop... I didn't know it was only in 1 gear... :ugh2:

Yeah the measurement is just in a single gear. You've seen my dyno vids, right? If you watch closely, you can see them run up through to 5th gear quickly, then they just hold it there for a sec at like 2500 rpm while they hit the start button on the measurement software, then they floor it all the way to redline and then they're done.

Runs were done in Tempe at (S)uperior (R)acing (D)evelopment with Xact Dyno (first listing on UpRev's Web site for Dealers/Tuners) which is in the same shop (separate business run by Tim).
Yes - know about Intense Motorsports' rep. :icon18: The guys at SRD are good and not too pricey. Chet the owner is real straight up guy. SRD are also going to start distributing Tony's exhaust (and LTH's no doubt). They sold one to another customer after they saw the quality and heard mine.
As far as what I'm going for with this car - keeping the wife happy :happydance: since it's her daily ride. If it was mine I would be going all out (TT kit, hardened tranny, etc) and going to SpeedWorld and Firebird to challenge my old Turbo Regal buddies. :D

I guess I just need to go to a dyno shop and have them see what my baselines are... And let them explain it to me as they do...

How much +/- will a run set you back? Say if I wanna do 3 for a good average to use as my baseline?

This one will give you an idea of what I'm talking about re. shifting up to 5th, holding it for a sec and then gunning it.

Definitely all one gear. I think I smell smoke... Coming from your ears Cwis? :stirthepot::rofl2::rofl2:

I didn't understand the whole 1:1 ratio thing before though heh.

Dude let me know when and I'll come out with ya! (So long as it's on the weekend since I'd never be able to make it there on a weekday lol)

I need to get a baseline strip number as well...

Depends on the shop. Anywhere from $70-$100 is the norm. And 3 pulls is also standard.