GTM issues
 

UPDATE:

Sam got my car in March and told me the car would be ready for pickup in about a month and that the kit had been fabricated and was ready for install. At this point he already had $8,000 of my money. At the end of March I was told that he was almost ready. Then months go by and I find out that my car has just been sitting there collecting dust for no reason. In the interim I was contacted by him and asked to pay an obscene amount of money for the install, which I did. I was under the impression that the install was free since my car was the test mule. Instead, he was going to charge me $5,000 more (the breakdown has more details - request if needed). I had a hard time with this since he never talked about cost or gave me an estimate BEFORE my car had been shipped there, but I paid him. At this point I am $14,000 in. Keep in mind he quotes on his Facebook page that the job is 16 hours and a fee of $10,000 installed - so I get to pay an extra $4,000 to be the guinea pig.

Around June 7th I had enough after another forum member let me know that the car hadn't been touched at all and had been lied to over and over by Sam. I was pulling the plug and a local tuner got involved and brokered a deal where I got a $5,000 refund and agreed to keep positive in social media, and be a positive reference, which I did. He agreed that the car would be done no later than Sept. 7th, and if the car could not be completed by that time then a Twin Turbo kit would be installed and the car would be ready for pickup on that day.

3 months go by without a word from Sam. Complete silence. I only get updates through the forums. Finally, on Sept. 5th Sam calls to ask me what time I will be there on the 7th. I told him I didn't have a flight and would fly out the following weekend to pick the car up.

A week goes by and then I find out that the car still isn't done, and he has all these tuning issues to work out. He tells me that it isn't making great power because he needs a different size belt and that it would be 8+ months to get that belt, but that he would try to work it out and is basically trying to sell me on the poor performance. He picks that moment, 7 months later, to tell me that this kit is for the AWD model and not designed to make more power, though he had told me initially it was to better the performance level of the twin-turbo. So, basically, I would be lucky if it would match the performance of an off-the-shelf Stage 2 supercharger that I could have been driving months before. I find out Friday night that I am not picking up my car the following day and my airfare was wasted. I stew on it for a day and then cancel my order.

TODAY I ask about the status of my refund, money he has had for 9 months, and he tells me that he won't refund the money until the uninstall is complete, but that it is taking longer than expected. I tell him that is unacceptable as waiting to refund is only applicable when returning something - like mailing back a pair of shoes and he has possession of the parts and my car. He refused and so I called the police, BBB, my attorney, AMEX, and the CA Bureau of Automotive Repair and will pursue my refund and damages to the fullest extent of the law as well as spread the word on GTM as often as possible.

I have been contacted MANY MANY times on several forums about GTM and have heard many similar horror stories.

Take Aways:

1. Sam is a liar. Yes, I have proof.
2. GTM will price gouge
3. Sam has complained about cash flow several times. Might not be a safe place to send a big check.
4. Projects will end up extremely late, if they are ever completed - based on many other accounts and my own.

I advise anyone thinking about sending their car to Sam to really think about it. This appears to be the norm and not the exception.

From what I hear, the kits that tuners install are solid, so a kit from GTM might be OK, but I am worried about warranty issues.

This was truly one of the worst consumer experiences of my life. I am so disgusted I don't even want the car anymore.

Really sorry to hear.

Definitely sorry to hear that. Why didn't you stick to the hard timeline? If it wasn't done in March, I just would have gone to go pick the car up. I would have been nagging like an old Wife instead of waiting for a return call.

probably because when one is promised something great we are always more lenient until something really push it past the breaking point

suck to hear the terrible experience :(

thanks for the heads up , i will stick with stillen for the s. c. kit, i feel fore you ,that just sucks, thanks fore the info, give kenny doung a call at stillen great guy 714-540-5566 ex 185 he will help you a lot with this prob

I am glad that someone has spoke up about Gtm and Sam especially.sorry to hear you car had to suffer.

OUCH. Sorry to hear man.

Just when you think this might be.............................then............... ........:facepalm:
I can just image your pain through all of this. :(

MAN I'm really sorry, But serious GLAD someone came out on them, He runs around here like he is a GOD, Bashing all other kits, WOW. Will LOVE to heat his reply,,

kpjc4eva posted this also.
GTM Performance Engineering: VQ37VHR Twin Supercharger System - Page 12 - MyG37



I advise anyone thinking about sending their car to Sam to really think about it. This appears to be the norm and not the exception.

From what I hear, the kits that tuners install are solid, so a kit from GTM might be OK, but I am worried about warranty issues.

This was truly one of the worst consumer experiences of my life. I am so disgusted I don't even want the car anymore.

I figure I was the only one who was affected with bad luck from GTM. I was stationed at Camp Pendleton with 2/4, and took my car to GTM before I got out and left for Texas. I don't know but he said something along those lines too. A month should be fine, but he ran into few problems here and there. I figure it be fine since the work was being operated in house at GTM. Should be flawless right? I got the car back with few problems. Of course I contacted Sam back and forth, and he made it sound like I ****ered up the car. I kept telling him I'll ship the car back since they touched it, and it's there specialty. But man I had problems ranging from ALL sorts of problems. It could be problems from driving on the highway and everything just shuts off. I turn on the car and it dies instantly. Codes would just appear and make the car go into limp mode, etc. Also it took almost a year getting my UpRev cable. But all in all I was being patient, and he was helping with minimum effort. This **** pissed me off to the certain point where I bought another car, and just drove that around. Almost a year and half later I've decided to take the car to a shop here in Dallas. The cars been sitting in the garage after trying so many roms from Sam. One rom would disable my cruise control, another would make the car sputter like a retard on crack, and the other would just simply do nothing.

Now this is the part where I was mind ****ed. I took it to a well respected shop here in Dallas. T1. They were laid back and cool, and I told Tony about the problem. We started talking and the tuner guy got involved. They did some stuff and basically said this kit is ****. That's mind **** number one. I said "Get the **** out, they specialize in these motors." I got the stink eye from everyone at the shop. They flat out said I needed a tune, cause the tune from the initial tune from GTM was a complete fail, and all the ones following up through email. Mind **** number 2. So T1 called UpRev in Austin, and we started talking. Omar got involved at UpRev and the owner. I forget his name. So out of anger I threw my G37 back in the garage and said, "**** it all." So several months roll by and I went down to UpRev in Austin. I talked to them about everything. Left the car at UpRev for a month. Why a month? Cause they were finding ALL SORTS OF PROBLEMS. Mind blown and lost all faith from GTM. So I spent nearly 2200 fixing all the problems, and a tune. Car ran flawlessly. The car had many leaks. Some of the stuff was poorly welded, **** was rubbing all over the place, and they were just going off with a list of problems. So before picking up the car I had a buddy from Tay's Automotive here in Dallas be my liaison to see if UpRev was just saying stuff to earn an extra buck. Nope, it turns out it was legit and they both said GTM kits are poor quality stuff. Mind ****ered times 10000 now.

I had fun with the kit at TX2K12. But the quality of the kit overall is poor. After looking at the manifolds the casting was done poorly. I have pictures of it but I kept everything to myself since its not my place to say anything, and everyone here seems to praise GTM like gods. But after meeting a handful of individuals in Southern Cali and here in Dallas, this kit is something to reckon with.

The car was fun minus all the problems, and then later realizing this is one of those shops as Sam always states, "the best bang for your buck." Simply means you get what you paid for. And apparently I paid for crap. But that's just me gentlemen, and the few, the proud, and the people who got screwed.

They probably have a different story, but I have pictures to prove my mind ****ed experience.

Sorry about your bad experience. Sucks but I hear you loud and clear.

No discount for being the test mule ouch

That not letting me know what's going on crap is the reason I no longer deal with Je imports
I got 2 calls from them in 5 months I went to pick the car up twice and was told its not ready even after being told it was
And all I asked of them is to keep me on the loop
8300 bucks and 5 months later I got my car back dirty and with a bad miss

I washed the car and had to return to them next day to have the miss fixed

:shakes head: man this sucks......

spawn350 , sorry to hear about your experiences. Atleast you spoke out man, I'm sure there are others, there are quite interesting stories on my350z.com, but here everyone gets shut out by the fanboi's.

Was actually thinking about pulling the trigger on a GTM TT... not anymore. Sorry about your luck man, hope the rest of the process gets buffed out and you get the car back in one piece.

Edit: Disregard this post. My apologies for not waiting for both sides of the story.

Ouch....hate to read something like that.

What a nightmare. :ugh:

damn sorry to hear that, now i have 2nd thoughts purchasing a kit with gtm...

This sucks man, I hope you get your money back.

My sincere condolences for your bad experience!
Pay only your contract whit GTM!!

But people!

Each new modification of an original motor means high costs and network setup!

Please give a voice to the tuner before it again starts a new "WAR" between GTM and STILLEN! :tup:

I've also been waiting for the optimal setting of my kits and the support!
But after a long wait I got it where I wanted to (even more)!!!! :tup:

Greetings from switzerland
Ivo

This is crazy and disappointing to read for sure. However, $50 says any negative comments posted about GTM or their employees will be deleted and swept under the rug by a mod just like that UAM and all the vip status/venaci wheels threads, so that no one ever knows.

soooooo, time to start reading up on Greddy!!! :ughdance:

lol

or keep the one you have :)

i'd like to have "real" power :tup:

Mr. McCormick had conveniently left a lot of vital information and incidents out regarding this transaction. No mention of how he ended up getting a twin supercharger kit from us, no mention of how his car became a so-called guinea pig knowing that we did not need his car for R&D since we have two G37's of our own for development purposes. We have been more than straightforward, professional and courteous throughout the whole process and tolerated a lot of nonsense from him with the intent to manipulate and extort us. Not only did Mr. McCormick not know what he wanted, but throughout the whole transaction, he kept changing direction on us. You don't have to take our word for it, but thank God for e-mails which will show the state of mind this guy is in.

This is the real story.

Mr. McCormick is a customer of Z Car Garage. Z Car had worked on his car from day one with NA mods (intake and exhaust) and tuning. So when he decided to go FI, he had contacted Rob from Z Car Garage and was recommended our Twin Turbo Kit. Since Z Car Garage does not accept American Express, Rob asked us to process the transaction for him for our Twin Turbo Kit so that Rob was able to sell a kit to the customer, the customer gets what he wants and we move forward. Again, this was a parts only sale for a Twin Turbo kit before the Twin Supercharger idea had even been revealed. The Twin Supercharger was never discussed and did not even exist when money was exchanged.

Then, after the Twin Turbo Kit order was placed, I found myself receiving questions from Mr. McCormick whether he should go Twin Turbo or with our Supercharger Kit (single system mind you).

So, we went through discussing back and forth which option to go with even though he had already paid for the Twin Turbo Kit and was having second thoughts. This discussion continued for three months!! We did not receive his car until April (not March as he claims). Even after finally receiving his car, the discussion continued before any work could be done. It was all just talk and trying to figure out what he wanted to do as he hadn't made up his mind yet.

At this point, in late May, we were still hashing out the details of the work and the direction hadn't even been finalized yet. Furthermore, his impression of getting the system installed for free was a discussion he had with Rob, not me. He had not discussed getting anything for free with me, and I run this shop. On top of that, we did not and do not need his car to do R&D on this kit, he just wanted to be the first one to get it installed.

We have two G37's of our own for the express purpose of R&D. There had never been a charge of $5,000 extra for installation of the Twin Supercharger Kit. I gave him an estimate that included our Direct Port Water/Methanol Injection, dual oil coolers, and the installation of those components along with the Twin Supercharger Kit. They were totally optional and he CHOSE to go with those additional modifications. Also, there were three other different build options he was presented with (Twin Turbo, Stage 2 Supercharger, and a milder Twin Supercharger) and he made the decision to add the additional work. We didn't force him to make that decision...if anything, we offered him a good deal to go that route.

Now, in regards to his car "not being touched" around June 7th, the answer is that it is simply not true. Sure, we were still test fitting the parts on a test engine we have here at the shop and one of our test vehicles. The reason for this is due to the fact that taking parts on and off a car over and over again will eventually cause damage. Our shop R&D cars have already had multiple kits tested, installed, and removed. In the end, we were doing him a favor by not using his car to do this type of work and that once the parts were finalized, he would get the final production parts. This is clearly reflected by the pictures in our posts. Obviously, if we were trying to hide something, we wouldn't be posting about it. Furthermore, this was explained to him on multiple occasions that we did not want to risk damaging his car during the R&D process. In the end, his car was not the test mule: only the first car to have the production version of the kit installed.

One very important thing I'd like to remind everyone of is that this is the first time anything close to this magnitude has ever been done on this platform. It is completely and totally unrealistic to expect everything to be completed exactly on someone else's idea of what a realistic time frame is. This is R&D, not a straightforward installation of a kit that's already been developed.

On the subject of the $5,000 offset brokered by Rob at Z Car Garage, Will had cancelled the order and wanted a full refund because his expectation of having the first Twin Supercharger in the world in record time was not being met. Anytime Will heard anything that wasn't what he wanted to hear, I would get a nasty e-mail berating me and making threats. When Rob and I were having one of our conversations and discussing the issues with Will McCormick's desire to cancel the project, I told him that if Will wants to cancel, then there's nothing I can do about it. Rob asked me if I wanted to complete the project, and I said absolutely. Rob said he would talk to Will and see what it would take to let us finish the project. Will said it would take a $5,000 offset and came up with the following proposal:

Notice, that we never asked or requested him to "keep positive in social media, and be a positive reference". That was his own idea in an effort to manipulate us into catering to his ego. Because we ultimately wanted to complete the project, we decided to play along.

When the deadline that Will put down was approaching, I contacted him to find out when he was planning on coming down to pick up the car. He had no plans to pick up the car even though he himself had chosen a deadline. So he can't even stick to his own agreement. Moving forward, we contacted Will to give him some preliminary numbers from the initial dyno pulls and also to inform him that his clutch was starting to smell which indicates that the clutch may let go. He said that Rob would warranty the clutch and he wasn't worried about it. I told him that so he knows, in case the clutch is unable to hold anymore power, that was definitely going to kill our deadline. This was a simple courtesy phone call to let him know where we were at. In response, Will immediately jumped on the our Facebook page and the forums to let everyone know about the disappointing numbers and didn't even get the numbers right. We never told him that these were the final numbers or that the kit was done. We were simply giving him a courtesy call to give him first updates. Also, after telling him our intital results, he stated that it is not going to be very good for marketing for people to buy the kit. At that point, I told him that the initiative behind the development of this kit was to give our AWD customers a nice supercharger option. Besides, 480whp on 91 octane gas with the limited belt options we had available to use was exceptionally good results. From that point on, and based on our conversations, I knew that Mr. McCormick wanted to back out of the deal for not meeting his unrealistic expectations. The belt comment that he came up with was only what he wanted to hear. When I told him that it takes 8 months to make new belts, he didn't hear when I told him that these belts had been in the works for the last 6 months already.

It was clear to us again that he was working a manipulative angle when he started posting and ranting about disappointing results. We kept a professional attitude and went back on the dyno with a different pulley configuration when we ran into a timing code issue. As soon as that happened, we posted the following update as well as sent him an e-mail and called him in regards to the issue:

We had a conversation with him about the issue. Throughout the conversation, he did not act upset or angry and simply said "Please keep me posted". When he mentioned that he lost out on $300 for airfare, I told him that I would compensate him by transporting his car to him at our expense. The next day he sent an e-mail that we received on Monday morning that stated the following:

Again, Mr. McCormick continues to attempt to bully and manipulate us into giving him whatever he wants. Now, he wants us to pay him $6,000 on top of a refund? What civil and criminal laws have we broken?

In response, this is what we wrote to him:

In response, this is what he wrote:

So, in essence, Mr. McCormick is trying to extort $6,000 from us to "be made whole". What does that mean exactly?

It doesn't end there, the unreasonable requests continue.

To this hour, the police have yet to show up.

In regards to the whole refund issue, we have every intention of refunding his money after our parts are removed from his car. Just like a refund will not be issued until parts have been received, the parts are technically on his property (car) and until those parts are no longer on his property, we will not refund the money. Once they are removed from his property, the money will be refunded. Simple as that.

Will, with all the evidence that we have provided, we have shown without a shadow of a doubt that it is you that has a hard time telling the truth.

As far as us "price gouging" as you say, we provided you with not one, but four different estimates to choose from, and even then you still had a fifth option: do nothing.

As far as our cash flow is concerned, why would I discuss such a subject with someone like you? Really, if a company had a cash flow issue, they wouldn't refund $5,000 as quickly as we did, nor when you decided to cancel did we try to convince you to keep on with the project and said OK and proceeded to take the parts off your car.

Another example of how deceiving and willing you are to say whatever you want to make a false assertion. Last time I checked on the forum, we have put out more cars than anyone else out there. We pretty much dominate the forced induction market for a reason. For you to make the statement that "this is the norm and not the exception" is far from the truth. What is not normal, is you.

I suggest you show this documentation to your attorney, I'm sure he'll tell you that you are lucky you are getting your money back.

Sam

Get wrecked...

Always be careful what you put in writing because it can come back to haunt you.

The extortion emails are not cool.

Not sure if the customer really thought it would work.

Why did I read all of that?

Because you wanted too. Like a moth drawn into a flame.

What a train wreck. :icon14:

That is very manipulative action's on the behalf of the Purchaser, wow!! I just read something that reminded me of an action flick all twisted with a fatality blow in one as in Mortal Kombat "Finish Him."

The customer seemed to have read a dictionary and thesaurus to fluff up the threats.

Things could have been done differently by both parties but the emails dont lie and truly show customers intentions.

LOL@ Speaking in 3rd person.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

Im my opinion unless this guy will knows nothing about big builds or new builds they take time, there are unforeseen hiccups and glitches along the way ,just the way it works! to cancel when the car is running makes no sense to me!!

I agree with this 100% why get so close and just throw in the towel even if it took longer that expected. If it was me I just couldn't get 90% done and pull the plug no matter what.

Sam,

I am not going to go on and on for pages with you. I do apologize for getting the date of receipt wrong for my car, and should have checked. You are correct that the car was delivered in early April and not early March. I also went back and forth on what kit I wanted BEFORE I shipped my car to you. You contacted me in the beginning of April to ask me what my "wish list" for the car was and didn't contact me again until the end of May when you sent me a $30,000 invoice (attached). However, please explain these questions:

1. Why would I send you a car in April to sit there before you even sent me an invoice for labor or the additional cost of the kit (that you didn't disclose till May 23rd) ? The answer is: I was led to believe that the installation was free and the car was being worked on and the kit was ready by the time the car was there.

2. Why did you tell me the car would be done on June 7th (see attached PDF)? This is in line with you telling me the car would be done at the end of April when it was first shipped out.

3. If you are in the right, why did you refund $5,000 to me? Surely you could have found another person willing to jump on this.

4. In what state is it legal to waive sales tax? Can you show proof that you paid sales tax on this order?

5. Why would I have wanted a twin supercharger if other options provided more power for less cost and risk?

6. If you didn't express cash-flow issues why did you ask me if you could process my initial refund of $5000 several days in the future of the agreement for refund that we made?

7. Why am I at the mercy of your uninstall to get a refund now? You have the car and the parts correct? Can I drive the car?

8. Why wasn't the car ready on Sept. 7th with either the twin SC or twin turbo per the terms YOU agreed to? The reason I didn't have plans to be there was because I had intel that the car was not close to being ready.

9. Do you know what the daily loss-of-use rate is in CA?

10. Do you know what extortion really is?

11. Since June 7th, what contacts have you made with me to update me?

12. How could you have done any work to the car by June 7th when the kit wasn't ready until months later?

13. Why was my quote so much higher than the price you quoted on FB?

I have had work done on cars and custom bikes built before - sometimes taking over a year. I know that projects often run late. However, I have never been outright lied to, ripped off, jerked around, and neglected in this manner. This whole situation could have been smooth and enjoyable with clear communication, honesty, and correctly set expectations. Now it is a complete mess.

All - I am not trying to "extort" money or anything else from Sam. I had loss of use of my daily driver due to deception, miscommunication, and project mismanagement. The daily loss-of-use rate in CA is $50 per day. I requested $6,000 which was less than what I am entitled to. I have been paying for the car, as well as insuring it while it was there. I was in a rental car for 2 months while I waited for this car to be done based on the timeline that was set forth by Sam. I cancelled the project because the terms of our agreement had been breeched and a complete lack of faith that it would ever get done and/or work well. I have had a slew of PMs coming my way as well as chance encounters telling me of their terrible experiences with GTM.

Nope, not reading that one...

Yea, you did. Don't lie. LOL :D

Jesus Christ, 30 grand

pocket burned!! me oh my! not good. Greddy FTW.. LOL!

This was was moved from GTM Performance Engineering: VQ37VHR Twin Supercharger System-First Look

no sh*t! Just buy a freaking GTR and be done with it!!

DAMM! 30 GRAND, Holy Smoke. :barf: