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Nissan 370Z Forum (http://www.the370z.com/)
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esfourteen 03-14-2012 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roplusbee (Post 1599305)
Not form experience, but I would think an SC setup would be decent with a 7AT. I am curious about the pulleys now. I like the idea of reducing rotational mass. The purpose of underdriving the accessories it keep them from overloading? Never had a pulley before..................don't slam me, please!
reducing rotational mass in the drivetrain frees up power, your engine doesn't make more power but the end result is more power is transferred to the wheels.

The major issue with the pulleys is that they are aluminum and our crank is steel, they are basically welding themselves together via galvanic corrosion over time.

roplusbee 03-14-2012 03:22 PM
Thanks

Reality 03-14-2012 04:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esfourteen (Post 1599431)
reducing rotational mass in the drivetrain frees up power, your engine doesn't make more power but the end result is more power is transferred to the wheels.

The major issue with the pulleys is that they are aluminum and our crank is steel, they are basically welding themselves together via galvanic corrosion over time.
I would say that it results in the power getting to the ground "easier". I did not make any legitimate power.
I did 3 back-to-back baselines, Installed Pulleys and Made 3 more runs... No real life gains.
Same dyno, same day (within a few hours).

I totally agree with the crank pulleys fusing.. I know of this happening to 2 local z owners who were both boosted.

A note for FI z owners, would be to read up on harmonic dampeners when considering crank pulley replacement...
-Or engine go boom!

Mike@GTM 03-14-2012 06:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reality (Post 1599644)
I would say that it results in the power getting to the ground "easier". I did not make any legitimate power.
I did 3 back-to-back baselines, Installed Pulleys and Made 3 more runs... No real life gains.
Same dyno, same day (within a few hours).

I totally agree with the crank pulleys fusing.. I know of this happening to 2 local z owners who were both boosted.

A note for FI z owners, would be to read up on harmonic dampeners when considering crank pulley replacement...
-Or engine go boom!

That's what we've been saying as well. We even have a video of us removing a fused crank pulley in our Stage 2 Supercharger Press Release thread and have touched on the issues that have resulted from harmonics. We've seen the catastrophic results of running an aftermarket lightweight pulley.

Also, while reduction in rotational inertia does help improve engine response, there are other factors to consider as well...like how long you want your engine to last.

roplusbee 03-14-2012 08:20 PM
Yup..........I will pass. Just curious about it..........

LafitteZ 03-15-2012 07:19 AM
Of all the pulleys sold and of all the cars with the under drive there are only a handful of cars with a problem and even less with catastrophic problem. I have 2 cars with them one for 6 years supercharged and now my turbo 370 for 2 years no problems. We have 150 members in the Louisiana z n g community and not one of us has had 1 problem with the pulleys and we've been using them for years and not just on zs. I'm sure most mods we can find someone with a nasty problem I mean look the autos are melting the trannys but not everyone it's happening to. It's the nature of the beast there's always going to be problems with something and compared to how many cars have the underdrive compared to how many have problems is veryyyyy low.

LafitteZ 03-15-2012 07:20 AM
Lets not eat peanuts because 1 out of 100000 are allergic. I mean same difference.

Nixlimited 03-15-2012 10:24 AM
The point is: for the very nominal gains, if any, why take the risk?

shaun66 03-15-2012 12:39 PM
Watch the video it really makes you :icon14: like why am i doing this to my motor!

LafitteZ 03-15-2012 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaun66 (Post 1601275)
Watch the video it really makes you :icon14: like why am i doing this to my motor!
Yea I understand mabe im just a risk taker. Iv seen many engines blow to bits from FI. We still do it on the quest for more power and more speed. Im willing to take the risk then again iv had no bad experience with them.

Speedy 03-15-2012 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaun66 (Post 1601275)
Watch the video it really makes you :icon14: like why am i doing this to my motor!
I must be dense. What video?

Speedy 03-15-2012 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LafitteZ (Post 1583864)
All you 7at guys if y'all had a choice would y'all buy the auto again? I'm thinking about buying a g37 for the ol lady and I'll prolly boost it off the lot.
7AT NO DOUBT! I just ran a 13.080 in the 1/4 bone stock with crappy track prep on the stock tires and everything. Best MPH was 108. Are there 6mts beating those times bone stock?

LafitteZ 03-18-2012 11:20 PM
thats a damn good time speedy. the 7ats are wooping some *** in this new platform

Ron 03-19-2012 07:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy (Post 1602318)
I must be dense. What video?
This is the post, videos at the bottom.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM@GTM (Post 1308524)
....

UNDERDRIVE PULLEY is a bad idea all the way around for few reasons :

- Despite what anyone says about this engine being internally balance and removing the harmonic balancer does not have any effect on this engine is totally false. So by removing the harmonic balancer (witch is made from two part metal and rubber in the middle bonding them together for the sole purpose of absorbing engine harmonics and vibrations ) you are destroying your engine .

- Further more by installing the lighter aluminum pulley, keep in mind that aluminum is softer then harden steel (crankshaft) you are also taking a chance of either killing your crankshaft or being unable to ever remove the underdrive pulley since with time it will weld it self to the crank. and here is exactly what happened in this case, So we had to remove the whole front end, radiator support, a/c condenser so we can put a big enough air gun to brake loos the bolt and still had hell of time to do so .

Also I'm quoting the same info from the web

Z eliminator 03-19-2012 07:43 AM
7 AT 12.42 @114.3

all motor.

best 6 MT 12.29. 114.7 all motor.

Same mods.

Speedy 03-19-2012 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LafitteZ (Post 1607320)
thats a damn good time speedy. the 7ats are wooping some *** in this new platform
Thanks man, I was impressed for sure with this car. I'd have run 12.90s, maybe even 12.80s if the track had any prep on it. It kept spinning on the 1-2 shift.

It's the same on the Challengers. The autos are always faster. I'm a decent stick driver and I can be on the track in my 6 speed Challenger with my buddy in his auto, pretty much same mods all the way down to the same wheels and drag radials. He's always nearly 5/10ths faster than me. Modern auto transmissions just shift more efficiently than back in the day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron (Post 1607603)
This is the post, videos at the bottom.
Well I see the problem there, he didn't use a big enough impact :icon17:

Man forget all that mess.

indyn 03-19-2012 12:23 PM
[QUOTE=Mike@GTM;1599892]That's what we've been saying as well. We even have a video of us removing a fused crank pulley in our Stage 2 Supercharger Press Release thread and have touched on the issues that have resulted from harmonics. We've seen the catastrophic results of running an aftermarket lightweight pulley.

Also, while reduction in rotational inertia does help improve engine response, there are other factors to consider as well...like how long you want your engine to last.[/QUOTE]

Mike,

with regards to above response, would it be true for any kind of rotational inertia like the lightweight wheels, lightweight driveshafts (aluminium or Carbon), flywheels, etc?

Nixlimited 03-19-2012 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by indyn (Post 1608055)
Mike,

with regards to above response, would it be true for any kind of rotational inertia like the lightweight wheels, lightweight driveshafts (aluminium or Carbon), flywheels, etc?
Doubtful. What this is getting at more is the loss of the damper on the main pulley in an effort to save weight. That could potentially affect the life of the engine by allowing more vibrations to go unchecked. Lightweight everything else is generally good all the way around.

Mr.Squeeze 03-19-2012 12:41 PM
[QUOTE=indyn;1608055]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@GTM (Post 1599892)
That's what we've been saying as well. We even have a video of us removing a fused crank pulley in our Stage 2 Supercharger Press Release thread and have touched on the issues that have resulted from harmonics. We've seen the catastrophic results of running an aftermarket lightweight pulley.

Also, while reduction in rotational inertia does help improve engine response, there are other factors to consider as well...like how long you want your engine to last.[/QUOTE]

Mike,

with regards to above response, would it be true for any kind of rotational inertia like the lightweight wheels, lightweight driveshafts (aluminium or Carbon), flywheels, etc?
It wouldnt have a effect, the parts that you are speaking of has will not cause damage to a engine.

LafitteZ 03-19-2012 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z eliminator (Post 1607605)
7 AT 12.42 @114.3

all motor.

best 6 MT 12.29. 114.7 all motor.

Same mods.
Yea but your average joe cant shift like that auto or launch like the auto and im pretty sure the auto tranny will take that abuse longer then the 6mt. Thats why I say the auto in this new plateform is very very good.

Speedy 03-19-2012 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LafitteZ (Post 1608619)
Yea but your average joe cant shift like that auto or launch like the auto and im pretty sure the auto tranny will take that abuse longer then the 6mt. Thats why I say the auto in this new plateform is very very good.
Launching and shifting a manual at the strip is the biggest part of it. Took me a long while to learn to speed shift the Challenger, and going from 2nd to 3rd with my foot to the floor on the throttle still gives me pause at times LOL

Mike@GTM 03-19-2012 07:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by indyn (Post 1608055)
Mike,

with regards to above response, would it be true for any kind of rotational inertia like the lightweight wheels, lightweight driveshafts (aluminium or Carbon), flywheels, etc?
No, only the crank pulley. That is because the factory pulley is a harmonic damper. The other bits are fine to replace with lightweight versions and won't damage anything.

LafitteZ 03-19-2012 09:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy (Post 1608735)
Launching and shifting a manual at the strip is the biggest part of it. Took me a long while to learn to speed shift the Challenger, and going from 2nd to 3rd with my foot to the floor on the throttle still gives me pause at times LOL
Got more balls then me friend. I had a clutch disk explode and put holes in the friggin tranny houseing. I cringe everytime i let off the friggin clutch in a higher rev. Im a big puss when it comes to my 370 man its to god damn expensive to fix. So I typically wont dig race or nail it right at the light or something.

Nixlimited 03-19-2012 10:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LafitteZ (Post 1608619)
and im pretty sure the auto tranny will take that abuse longer then the 6mt
How many autos have we seen die on here versus 6MTs? I don't think there is any evidence that the 6MT is prone to failure. And no, this is not a comment about whether Auto or 6MT is better generally speaking.

LafitteZ 03-20-2012 08:11 AM
Not total failure of the tranny but to the point it needs work yes the auto is holding up better. Considering I'm on my 3rd and a lot of other people are having synchro problems left and right. Shift forks breaking. So as I said the auto seems to take the abuse better. Probably because of the precise shifting of the computer. 6mt are notorious for synchro problems

Reality 03-20-2012 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LafitteZ (Post 1608619)
Yea but your average joe cant shift like that auto or launch like the auto and im pretty sure the auto tranny will take that abuse longer then the 6mt. Thats why I say the auto in this new plateform is very very good.
You really think so?.. I can see now that you really have a lot to learn.

Reality 03-20-2012 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LafitteZ (Post 1609902)
Not total failure of the tranny but to the point it needs work yes the auto is holding up better. Considering I'm on my 3rd and a lot of other people are having synchro problems left and right. Shift forks breaking. So as I said the auto seems to take the abuse better. Probably because of the precise shifting of the computer. 6mt are notorious for synchro problems
Their are some individuals running quadruple WHP #'s with 6mt .. no issues. (z33)
If people are busting shift forks, it's because of User Error.

bullitt5897 03-20-2012 10:51 AM
running 996 rwhp as of last year on MT trans...

W.O.W. 370Z 03-20-2012 10:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt@UAMotorsports (Post 1610263)
running 996 rwhp as of last year on MT trans...
How many miles have you put on the car since TT? How hard have you been driving it?

bullitt5897 03-20-2012 11:00 AM
You know the answer to that... The car has seen tons of dyno time and travel around shows. Still finishing up on the build before I give road going perspective on the car. Widebody finishes this week and back to GTM for final touches and then home again.

LafitteZ 03-20-2012 08:13 PM
Go put that car on the track and see how long those syncros last. You shift hard they won't last that's y Nissan won't replace the tranny if the see the shavings or little dust particles on the magnet on the tranny. Go take a visit to the drivetrain section and go see how many people are having grinding problems! I put 25000 miles in one year on my car. That's my daily 50 mile commute and my weekend stuff. My first tranny started grinding at 2000 miles off the lot.

Reality 03-20-2012 08:15 PM
^Dyno shootouts and rolling a car into a show does not count as being "pushed"..

Check this vid out of a legit 1000whp+ z doing back-to-back passes at a track and decimating all of the competition. Domestics included..
Hal@Dynosty

Turbo 350Z vs RB26 240SX street race at Thursday Night Lightz 7-7-11 - YouTube

LafitteZ 03-20-2012 08:16 PM
Can it handle the power yes but can it handle aggressive shifting yes but only for so long.

Reality 03-20-2012 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LafitteZ (Post 1611353)
Go put that car on the track and see how long those syncros last. You shift hard they won't last that's y Nissan won't replace the tranny if the see the shavings or little dust particles on the magnet on the tranny. Go take a visit to the drivetrain section and go see how many people are having grinding problems! I put 25000 miles in one year on my car. That's my daily 50 mile commute and my weekend stuff. My first tranny started grinding at 2000 miles off the lot.
Watch the video I posted... You may be shocked! :icon17:

Reality 03-20-2012 08:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LafitteZ (Post 1611360)
Can it handle the power yes but can it handle aggressive shifting yes but only for so long.
What? You do realize that the weak point are the rear axles....
-The 6MT is solid and proven already..

Mr.Squeeze 03-20-2012 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reality (Post 1611356)
^Dyno shootouts and rolling a car into a show does not count as being "pushed"..

Check this vid out of a legit 1000whp+ z doing back-to-back passes at a track and decimating all of the competition. Domestics included..
Hal@Dynosty

Turbo 350Z vs RB26 240SX street race at Thursday Night Lightz 7-7-11 - YouTube

Hal's car is a beast one of the fastest Z's in the country.

It is still I believe to this day the fastest 6 speed,there are other z's that are faster with different transmission though.

LafitteZ 03-20-2012 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reality (Post 1611365)
What? You do realize that the weak point are the rear axles....
-The 6MT is solid and proven already..
Get a hold of dynosty and ask them if theyve never done tranny work in that car then you get that in writting. Eventually you will have to rebuild the tranny if you shift them hard. That car probably sees the track once every couple months. Try to drive that car daily with that kind of power and see what happens. The auto trannys have there own fair share of problems but i guarantee nissan is replacing more manual trannys then auto trannys. none of the cars youve show are a daily driven and weekend warrior track car but guess what mine is and im on tranny number 3. Mabe one of the 3 was a fluke but you cant neglect the fact that im on at least the second one and if you go back on here a few pages people are interested in better syncros because the tranny grind problem is more real then you may know.

LafitteZ 03-20-2012 09:07 PM
hals car is a beast man i definitly give him props for that car but i promise if he starts driving on the track or even drive it hard like a drag strip that car will have problems.

LafitteZ 03-20-2012 09:10 PM
Now can the auto tranny hold up better then the 6mt i really dont know if you read up i said it seems that way because i hear more about the 6mt grind problem then any other tranny problem. I could be wrong i dont really know i can only speek from my own problems and the 150 other members in the louisiana z n g community. All the autos if done correctly with the right supporting mods tend to take the beating more then your human controlled manual transmission.

Reality 03-20-2012 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LafitteZ (Post 1611487)
Get a hold of dynosty and ask them if theyve never done tranny work in that car then you get that in writting. Eventually you will have to rebuild the tranny if you shift them hard. That car probably sees the track once every couple months. Try to drive that car daily with that kind of power and see what happens. The auto trannys have there own fair share of problems but i guarantee nissan is replacing more manual trannys then auto trannys. none of the cars youve show are a daily driven and weekend warrior track car but guess what mine is and im on tranny number 3. Mabe one of the 3 was a fluke but you cant neglect the fact that im on at least the second one and if you go back on here a few pages people are interested in better syncros because the tranny grind problem is more real then you may know.
.... Get it in writing? LMFAO
Hal has had that beast for years! and no, this is not a daily driver.. Good luck DD any car with that amount of HP.

Fact is that the 6mt is proven and solid. You simply need to learn how to shift properly.


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