Thank you Sam, that's what I was looking for.. I also have a super noob question... How do you measure psi on twin turbo setup? ie: when you say you ran 20psi on a TT is that 10psi per turbo/bank?

SR20 guys with gt2860rs go up to 24 on a single turbo.. does that mean you can double that on a TT?

Measuring boost is measuring boost whether it is a twin or single turbo, I just used the 20 psi example on a car we did in past so i know for fact that The GT28RS can deliver a lot power . Garreet rate them @350 HP each and taht is why you see us rating our STG 2 turbo kit at 700HP witch is under rated .

Sam

misread your question. 500whp is on the limit, but it shortens the life of the block.

i have a friend runs that turbo on his evo, anything beyond 21psi the gain is minimum.

Ok I think I asked the wrong question. I know 20psi is the same on a single or twin turbo setup since its measured at the manifold and not at the turbos.

I guess what I was trying to ask is that if a single gt28rs maxes out at 24psi by you running 2 of the same turbos will you be able to produce double the psi at the manifold if you wanted to?

Ok, first of all, here is a compressor map for the GT2860RS Turbo:


The Y-axis is Pressure Ratio and the X-Axis is Air Flow. The islands are the efficiency. As you can see, the efficiency is not simply a function of pressure ratio.

Pressure Ratio is how much the turbo is compressing the air relative to the inlet air pressure. So, at sea level where the ambient air pressure is roughly 14.7psi, a 1:1 pressure ratio will yield atmospheric pressure (0psi of boost) and a 2:1 pressure ratio is 14.7 psi of boost. To calculate boost pressure, multiply atmospheric pressure by the Pressure Ratio then subtract atmospheric pressure.

Remember that boost is simply a measure of restriction. The X-axis on the compressor map is the one that matters when looking at horsepower. Lbs/min of air directly correlates to lbs/min of fuel you can add. Fuel plus air = power.

Now, back to the efficiency question. Since the islands represent efficiency, this turbo is most efficient in the middle island. That said, if you think about setting a boost pressure (horizontal lines) and rev the engine through the range of the engine, the efficiency is going to go from low, to high and back down again at the same boost pressure. Now, if you want to hit the peak efficiency through the rev range of the engine, you'll need to run between 7.5psi of boost up to 19psi of boost. The sweet spot for this turbo is right around 15psi of boost. That will give you peak flow for the turbo while keeping it efficient.

In the case of a Twin Turbo setup, the flow rates are added together and boost pressure for both turbos are the same. So, to get the most out of a twin setup and run it as efficiently as possible, you can flow up to 70lbs/min of air at 15psi of boost. The rough rule of thumb is that for every lb/min of air you flow, you make 10hp. So, that's roughly 700hp potential for a pair of GT2860RS Turbos.

Pressure ratio is not additive but air flow is.

Ok I think I get it. On a parallel twin turbo setup psi is the same but cfm is doubled. So 24+24 = 24 with double the cfm. Thanks!

So what is the max WHP yall think I can get off my stage 2 gtm kit with these turbos?

I am interested in this as well.

Assuming forged rods and pistons, quality bearings, ARP main/head studs, lower CR, 700-800cc injectors and 3in exhaust... is 700whp possible on a stage 2?

Compression Will have a factor in that , But I'm comfortable saying 650 to 700 RWHP on a stage 2.

Sam

Honestly I wouldn't assume anything. To be honest every engine that poped that i know of so far was because of error (error to part meaning example injector failing.) to a part or human. I think honestly we just need someone to beat the **** out of this engine and see what it can do. Seems like we got a great motor on our hand. There is a nissan mechanic around here that has a decent rep and does alot of aftermarket and as he put it when we talked he said we might have another 2 JZ-GTE motor here.

:icon14:

Don't know if it will match the 2jz ha , but it seems to handle 400-500whp day in day out just fine. Only time will tell I guess, being that none have rlly popped due to "power".

LOL i didn't say it. I know those motors are frigging monsters though and were strong. I hope our motors are as strong as that. Hell people were putting thicker head gaskets on the 2JZ-GE blocks and were beating the **** out of them and they were lasting. We need a little more data on what we can do before this motor quits.

Wasn't assuming, it a question about whether the kit with those supporting mods would be able to produce that power.

Thats my whole point behind it. Were making all this power, and we still don't even have full control over everything with this engine yet. Not sure on the gains of VVEL but still we might get something from it

rated at the flywheel of 700 will be roughly right around 600 on. Dyno jet and right around 530 on our Dyno. running the 2860rs out of its efficiency range means your generating alot more heat along with the induced power. sweet spot is right at 17 psi on the g35 we have here. 3.7 with higher compression only will put the Turbo beyond its efficiency at 19 psi. we build reliable power at our shop. overbuild everything to have something that you can beat on everyday without worrying. no number chasing here. obviously this thread and what we do raised some doubts. we have an account with HTML, we do business with Sam, you can't compare his kit to ours due to the fact its on different spectrums. regardless the thread was made on my350z.com to show people there is another option. we aren't here to mass produce it. we are here to offer an honest product built, installed and tuned by us. this what kit make spool quicker or makes more power is retarded. regardless of the spool time, you have to look at how much wtq and whp it makes before it hits full boost. area under the curve.

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We are no doubt all hoping that is the case, but I think we are a LONG way off from that at this point. 2JZ could put down 700 WHP with bolt-ons and run for years problem-free. That's why those damn cars still fetch 40K used. 2JZ is in an elite class of factory super-engines. I think the 4G63 and SR20 are up there. And I would go out on a limb to say the S54 of E46 gen M3s (like I had) ended up being a very reliable plant that could take aftermarket FI and make huge power reliably.

Soooo O&G, car8oy281... where's the write up? :D

Soooo Ron, still stuck @ 6lbs waiting on boost controller and stiffer(pink)bov springs because I ordered the softy's, should be here Monday, then we ramp the boost up to 10lbs and see what numbers we get on the dyno. Comp turbo said the turbo will be more efficient @ that psi... We were also working on intake filter sizes, pretty much still R&D stuff, I want to step up to the 3inch intake pipes when Johnny has time. We made 401 whp like 341 or 52 wtq @ 6lbs on a dynojet. I didn't post the vid or numbers because it wasn't that much more than the mustang run we did. No other problems to report, car runs great, good a/f's. cooling is amazing, air intake temps are good, filter is located right where GTM's stage 2 S/C filter is. Cars and coffee in the a.m. most likely if I wake up. I'll update next week after we up boost on the Mustang dyno. Your in town so why don't you just ride in my passenger seat and do a better write up for me!

I'll be there tomorrow morning.. other than "holy sh!t I want boost", I dunno how I can make a better write up lol.

What boost controller did you go with?

Of course I wanted the HKS but my pockett book didn't agree so i went with, Hallman Evolution Boost Controller Black at RallySportDirect.com , I've heard good things about their system. Applications , I should be there too, are you comming all the way to the Woodlands or is it downtown this time?

the boost sensor for my Greddy Infometer-Touch is on back order too so stuck plugging in a mechanical boost gauge when were on the dyno. lame! The infometer is super kool though, definitely recommend it.

It's at Vintage Park. I should be there at about 7, check the Texas section for more info. This is my first time going.

I live right down the road. I'll check it out!

So how did the dyno run go? On a side note, it's good to see at least 2 having success with alternative forced induction setups...........

It was GTR Monday but Johnny let me use a lift to install my boost controller, new air filter and BoV springs. Still waiting on Boost sensor so we can adjust the boost accordingly. I couldn't find the mechanical one and Johnny was too busy today to load it up on his Mustang Dyno, I want to take it back to the Dynojet when I get my boost gauge situated. I have no back tires at the moment so pushing the gas is almost pointless....almost! I'm going to grab some new tires this week. I also dug up some shitty cell phone pics and a video I made right after Johnny got done tuning it a few weeks ago. It's an on going project, I'll be building the motor very soon. I also added a few teaser pics of the GTR Johnnys working on among other projects. I'll keep yall posted.



http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/g...1-07153018.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/g...1-07153006.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/g...1-07125338.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/g...1-07125319.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/g...1-07124915.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/g...1-07114443.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/g...1-07125443.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/g...2-13-14-27.jpg

My exhaust sounds like a shotgun when downshifting, **** is hilarious!

Going to look for my first dyno run last year w/ this car. I had Exhaust, test pipes and intake w/ UpRev tune. Pretty sure it made 290-299 whp on JTrans Mustang Dyno, I know it didn't break 300.

I love the single :yum:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^

car runs good from what Justin has told us. just really waiting on a cam controller to be released to take alot if the can timing out so we can realize the full potential of this kit. 77 degrees of cam timing is killing the top end of this car. with a few adjustments of can timing IM sure we can extract a crap.load of HP up top.

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This graph goes as follows:

RUN 1 = Baseline w/ intake; 260.154whp and 207.587wtq

RUN 2 = intake, exhaust, UpRev tune; 286.211whp and 218.860wtq

RUN 3 = JTran single turbo 6-7 psi (hit 7psi dwindled to 6psi prior to boost controller install); 385.575whp and 339.400wtq

This dyno will read lower than any I've ever seen, a true "heartbreak" AWD Mustang Dyno. Regardless I've made well over 100+whp and wtq! Pumped up!


http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/g...rbovsStock.jpg

This graph represents JTran single turbo 6-7 psi vs GTM stg 2 @ 6psi, both cars still needing fine tuning, etc... Twin turbo will always come on faster but watch out, single turbo not far behind.

RUN 1 = GTM; 380.811whp and 315.702wtq

RUN 2 and 3 = JTran; 385.575whp and 339.400wtq

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/g...TurbovsGTM.jpg

Cam timing hits like 60-70 on these cars! lol, cams are hyperactive, they need to chill out!!

I'm an idiot could you just give us an explanation of your graphs when you get a chance. Thanks a head of time.

GTM kit makes more power sooner on the graph. Thats one of the advantages to the twin system.

but you're making more top end power more torque on similar boost and this setup is a lot cheaper than a twin setup. I think if you can smooth out the rough edges, get the boost controller setup and show what this baby can do when fully tuned to the current safe maximum limits it'll be an awesome alternative for some.

Yea, I agree, still getting all the little things figured out, but over all I'm very satisfied. I'll have more results asap.

We were having issues holding the correct amount of boost, it would hit 8 psi off the bat and then dwindle down and hold 6psi when we used the mechanical boost gauge on the Dynojet at another shop in town. Installing that boost controller yesterday and leaving it at wastegate boost has made a difference on when the gate opens and it feels more steady. I'll give some more updates when I have my gauge situated and I'm on the dyno again.