STILLEN 370Z Supercharger System - Announcement!!!

Xan

To Stillen: I searched the thread but couldn't find it, are you using the V-3 SCi-Trim or the V-3 Si-Trim?

Edit: Reading through the thread I was kind of surprised with some people wanting "speed density" air measurement.
This is less accurate as your not measuring the actual air mass, but using a big lookup table and some sensor inputs to come up with an air mass estimate.

Additionally for the person asking about the MAF before the supercharger and the temperature difference. This doesn't affect the air mass, as the same air mass still flows passed the MAF, just at a lower temperature/higher density. If the MAF can deal with the higher flow, the measurement of the mass of the air is still correct. Where it does affect is that hot air can lead to knocking, however you can tune for this by not using too much ignition advancement. And the use of their air-to-water intercooler also reduces this as much as possible by cooling the air back down before it enters the cylinders.

stormcrow

The point that you are missing is that even though you may be able to tune for the miscalculated intake air temps to quell knock, these are canned tunes at sea level and in different ambient temps. The ECU, in situations like this, need to be able to adjust for variables. Without knowing the exact temperature of the air from the MAF (measuring colder are due to 'draw through' that does not equate the hotter, compressed air going into the intake) the ECU cannot make the adjustments. This is why a "blow through' setup on a canned tune is a better option (though not close to perfect) than a canned tune on 'draw through'.

It's all well and good to have a custom tune on an OEM N/A car using 'draw through', but when it's a singular map shipped all over the world and in drastically different environments, not so much. This setup should come with a warning of recalibration is recommended. We've had this debate over on NAGTROC quite a bit when discussing "e-tunes." Even on an OEM F/I car that is calibrated for 'draw through', a one-size-fits-all approach to tuning is a bad idea.

Xan

Oh I definitely agree that it is much better to have engine custom tuned, I missed that that was the issue, I thought you were just worried about the MAF location.

But that aside what they probably do on a canned tune is run the engine hot and then make sure they tune for the save side (compensate for the real air temp, compared to the measured), you'll loose some power, but avoid ruining your engine. Additionally you've got a feedback loop from for instance the knock sensors which the ecu will use for self-learning and will use to compensate. Finally I don't know the algorithms that the Nissan ECU will use, but on top of the standard measures the car has VVEL, so it has some pretty powerful potential to compensate. Too bad this hasn't been cracked so they can make this custom as well, but I'm sure even the standard algorithms will assist here.

As Stillen is the one who actually does the canned tune, maybe they can comment on their approach. Maybe my above description is totally off, this would just be how I would do it.

Kyle@STILLEN

Nope...You're pretty much right on...

Don't get me wrong, just like a factory prepared car, if you can get a custom tune for your car then yes, you will be getting the most power possible. However, the tune that comes with our supercharger is no different than the tune that comes from Nissan. It is a pre set tune that will work perfectly fine for 99.9% of the owner's of these cars. If someone is building themselves a track car, then yes, they will want to pay a little extra to have a custom tune done specifically for their car. Each car/engine is a little different and every person adds their own exhaust, or exhaust and high flow cats, or long tube headers...the of possible variables goes on.

In order to achieve CARB legality we have to supply a locked tune. This is just like any O.E. car or aftermarket parts manufacturer. The tune must be pre-programmed and locked down. That tune is 100% safe and reliable for the car and will give great power and reliability. If someone wants to gain more power or custom tune for their other aftermarket parts combinations, they can do a custom tune on their own.

Xan

Seems like a pretty solid approach to me.

Could you also let me know which version you guys are using? (V-3 SCi-Trim or the V-3 Si-Trim)

stormcrow

That sentence really bothers me as this can't be further from the truth. No canned tune can be 100% safe, especially when force inducting a car that is normally aspirated from the factory. Even a custom tune for the car will never be 100% safe.

No offense, but any vendor who will say that their tune is 100% safe is basically lying.

Xan

Obviously it's only safe as any tune can be safe... Even the OEM tune can cause problems.

I don't think it's worth to have a full discussion on this, but when done with safety in mind, done correctly (correct install and within the limits of what the engine components can handle) and you look at how you can compensate for items that could damage the engine, a supercharger setup like this is a pretty safe bet.

You might not want to take my word for it and I'm not saying you should, feel free to disagree.
But maybe my statements have some more credibility if I told you that I have worked at Jaguar (uk), where my team was responsible for the calibration of the V8 engines, this included the NA and SC engines. So I've spend my fair share tuning engines for performance, safety, mpg and emission. And I know what it takes to break an engine and how to ensure they are reliable...

stormcrow

My reply, which I thought was clear, was in regard to Kyle's statement that the Stillen tune was 100% safe. It seems you have some experience in tuning, certainly much more than I as I profess to have none, and you must agree that Kyle's statement is not factual?

MMC Racing

You have it a little backwards actually. Most canned tunes are extremely conservative while custom tunes are running closer to the edge and are more sensitive to temperature and altitude.

But yes, nothing is 100% safe when it comes to modding.

stormcrow

Not true at all. Custom tunes, if done properly, are designed for the actual car and the actual conditions it is being run under. No canned tune, no matter how conservative, can come close to the safety factor of a solid custom tune. I don't know what tuners you use, but any that would put you on the ragged edge with a custom tune without being asked to do so is no tuner I want to have touch my car.

Kyle@STILLEN

Sorry for not answering you sooner. I thought I knew which trim we were using but I just wanted to double check and I was right. We're using the SCi-Trim.