AT Power Needs !!
 

So since we have been hijacking other threads regarding AT power, I figured I'd start a thread for it instead.

What I am curious about is who has actually blown their AT apart?

And even more..What was the critical failure mode?

- Teeth shearing?
- Input or output shaft?
- Case cracking?
- Bearings?

Maybe there is a better way to make the AT handle 500wtq if we get more light on it.

Good idea!! Also if I'm not mistakes it's the tourqe that blows the 7AT not WHP. I'm interested to see where this thread goes.

Yup. Thats what i meant. *edited*

Mine started letting go at around 500awhp with the G37x. It was shredding through the clutch packs due to a tuning issue not updating the line pressure correctly.

What was your wheel torque? Turbo or SC? What did you do to resolve the issue? What are you at now?

I was at 500.51 awhp and 430.27 wtq on a GTM twin turbo kit. I sent the transmission to Level 10 a handful of times to get their "bulletproof" package. After a couple of transmission volleys they decided to check it out and asked for the whole car. They figured out it was a tuning issue and it's been running great since I've had it back.

I'm currently wrapping up the final stages of the build and am hoping for a good whp and wtq increase over the past numbers.

My AT was done after 4k miles at 380tq. Level10 believes the boost from turbos come on so violently the AT just couldn't handle it.

500 awhp would be kick *** :D

Just curious... those of you who are AT that have gone FI or are considering FI - if you could do it all over again would you have gotten an M6?

I had planned to go boosted before I even bought my Z.. had even put down a deposit on the infamous GTM group buy several months before I had even begun shopping for my Z so I knew I would have to have an M6.. I also happen to prefer manual, but knew it was a requirement going in to keep boost prices down.

What was the mode of failure?

If the car was to run for 30 mins the transmission would just disengage and lose all gears almost as if we're to be in neutral.

Edit: First time this happen I got a solenoid code.

That's the effect. Do you know what physically went out in it?

Nope, I never asked pat@level10 but he said it was shot...

Interesting.

Yeah, if I could go back, I probably would have gotten a M6 but at the time I was driving stick thru stop and go traffic regularly so I wanted a break.

I never really planned on going FI also. I figured that the power level was fine but as we all know. Once the mod bug hits, it's hard to stop.

I haven't had any catastrophic issues with the AT but lately if the transmission oil is cold and I'm using manual shifting, when I slow down to a stop, I hear a clunk from the 2nd to 1st gear shift that the car does automatically or maybe I'm wrong, the car doesn't shift from 2nd to 1st automatically in manual mode. When the tranny oil warms up, I don't hear a clunk anymore.

Yes same here, I got the 7AT because I didn't think I would want to boost the car. Also my wife stated she wanted to be able to drive the car, little did I know that she would never drive the car she hates it and refuses to drive it. Now I'm stuck with a car I cannot boost.. I refuse to spend 5k to have the trans rebuilt better off doing a manual swap.

Same thing here. The idea was that my girlfriend could drive the car if I got drunk but she has never once driven the car because she doesn't want to wreck it.haha

I'm trying to stay below the 400wtq level on the car. I'm at 335wtq now and it's fast enough. If I can get it to 375wtq and 470whp I might be satisfied.

I went through the same thing... but my girl and I just agreed she would have to learn how to drive stick.

To date, she has not learned.

My right shoulder is damaged and it makes it more difficult to drive a manual now.

That's ok I like the paddle shifts. I had the Challenger up to 800 HP with a automatic and it was down right scary fast lol :icon14: Stupid fast actually.

Repost:

Quote:
That's EXACTLY the point where I'm at right now. The only things left to do now is to talk to level 10 and ask about the valve body mods and determine if I can rebuild the transmission or find a shop that can.

I've rebuilt Dodge automatics to a performance level with clutch packs, valve body mods and coolers, etc. But the 7 speed looks a little more complex and requires a little more thought. I may buy a used 7 speed and tear it down to explore and play, just because I can

I'll share my insights and discovery's in this thread instead

It seems the dodge transmission is a lot stronger then the 7AT.

A lot simpler too. Plus it had been around for ages and the info and parts for it, is everywhere.

That was then and this is now. Bring on the 7- speed; it's not that hard. :icon14:

Has anyone actually contacted Level 10 and talked to them about this? I only ask because a couple years ago when I talked to them about a tranny issue they were very informative and helpful.

I want to say I would go 6mt if I could do it all over again but that would be with the AWD G (which they don't make and a swap is unheard of). Between the level 10 upgrades and tune the 7AT works nicely, when I want more response (tracking) I put it in DS and use the paddles. It probably shifts quicker than I ever could through the 6MT.

With that being said the 6MT is still fun and allows for some things the 7AT just can't accomplish. We'll see how the built 7AT works out soon with the finished build (hopefully 700awhp)

Did not know a better place to ask this as it pertains to the application and all I felt it was fitting here:

Is there a way for us to launch in 2nd gear? Taking into account the extra power from a turbo or SC and presuming some might have already changed their final to 3.692 or even 3.9 it might be advantageous, traction wise, to be able to launch in 2nd. But, I do not know if the computer can be programmed or tricked into doing this. Thoughts?

Are people scared to start new threads?

this is extremely informative for you guys:

http://www.the370z.com/forced-induct...370z-info.html

No not scared.. I'm just trying to research my build..

That was directed toward the 2nd gear pull question which in no way is relavent to this thread and should be one on its own.

Fair enough, ask a mod to move it and clean up the thread (or, could a mod kindly?). Though some will argue the actual relevance to the question as launching a short geared 1st gear car (much like the very short 4.924 1st our AT has and paired with a 3.357 final, or even shorter ratio if the person went up to a 3.692 final) could be a point of failure for the transmission. Launching in 2nd (with either finals) with a high launch toque application, such as TT or SC, could help save the tranny from such a failure. But I can also see how one might say "no way is relevant to this thread". I apologize.

BTW, did you end up calling Pat at Level10 to get the answer you were looking for?

Yes. They want $6k. Any ideas how to cut that in half? That's the point.

But let's just have an overall blanket thread to cover anything related to the AT. And shut down the forum. No need to have one when we can just call the vendors all day and ask them what failed in every tranny they have seen. I bet they would like that.:gtfo2:

So when you called did you ask about the failure point? I've talked to Level10 before in the past and they were pretty up front with things and were great at explaining things when asked. You can cut the cost by ordering the rebuild kit from them and getting a local trusted shop to do the rebuild if that is an option. You can order the VB, TQ converter, and rebuild kit from Level10 for just under half that price. Past that you would be on your own to pull the tranny and take it to someone you trust so cost will vary.

Literally someone in this thread said "Nope, I never asked pat@level10 but he said it was shot..." which is directly linked to your question of "What was the critical failure mode?". But if you did call Level10 and asked, because honestly a highly trained professional will give you a more direct, honest, and explanatory answer to your question then 90% of the people on this forum (in regards to that exact question just due to experience and expertise) in relation to our auto transmissions. But damn, if their answer to you was "give me $6k for the answer" that reflects mighty poorly on their customer service.

You are doing no different here asking the members of this forum for the answer then picking up the phone and asking people that actually work with our transmission frequently; the difference being the trained professionals at Level10 most likely have the answer. I would hope they could answer questions rather than just say "give me money" and not answer anything in regards to their products, services, or the like.

And to follow that up he said the built tranny can hold 500whp and 650wtq. Which dismisses the "torque is what kills trannys" mindset here. He explained it as the clutch packs try to pull tq from them and with more than 500hp it can't do it quick enough. He also said the only build kit he sells usually is to customers outside the US where they don't have the means to ship the AT to their facility. They do not recommend having a tranny shop do the work as these units are more complex then most ( which I believe) and most shops won't get it right. They also have the magic touch on the shift tables that most tuners can't get right. However, they will walk any tuner through a proper table setup if they send a shot over on what they are looking at.

Shipping is only $300 there and back apparently.

We got no where near the sub $3k mark.

Look bud, I don't even own an AT! I'm just trying to shed some light on the subject and get it out in the open. Yes, I could for curiosity sake find all this out on my own...what good is that? You have the mindset of protesting the whole reason we are here.

Well I have a 7AT and want to boost so I am here! Lol... but from what I understood the AT can Handel well over 500HP.. it's the TQ that it cannot handle.

I know, crazy right? Thats what Pat said to me.

Level10 updated their site with the rebuild kit for $998 for the JR710E/RE7R01A tranny.

Trust me, as an AWD owner addressing the tranny is my only option. I want the same as you, but i feel we both might of addressed it incorrectly. Thank you for clarify what Level10 said and posting the information you obtained.

Looks like there full tranny service for ours is now $4,998.00, plus the freight shipping. So around ~$5300-5500. Or you could get their VB upgrade ($998), rebuild kit ($998), and TQ converter upgrade ($798) for about $2900 after all the shipping back and forth; pay the 8-12 hours labor at a shop you trust and cross your fingers they know the 7speed and spring for upgraded flex plate as well ($900-1200) and end up spending the same amount.

Considering the amount of threads I've read about broken flex plates I feel its worth mentioning that, as part of the AT system, that it also is a know point of failure and should be addressed when upgrading.

If 650WTQ is the limit of a built AT then that's pretty decent considering that should be in the 800WHP range around 7000rpms, accounting for our engines typical TQ loss. That is a highly speculated number, however, but puts into prospective the justification of the money it would cost to upgrade the AT.

So in their bulletproof package they upgrade the flex plate also?

I am not sure. They never mention it (online), nor have I ever heard anyone mention level10 upgrading it. I know there are two off companies that make them as well as Fast Intentions.

It's why I mentioned getting one separate from the other parts. Better to account for the cost then have it dropped on you, you know.

Called and talked to Pat@Level10, flex plate is not included in all that. He did mention again though that its the higher gears that fail due to TQ slippage.