STS Systems

Zsteve · 06-11-2010, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smashwebs

I am very close to purchasing one of their universal kits, can anybody estimate how much extra cost is associated with one of these if I do everything myself? Also, what psi would this put out/how much whp without any tuning?

you should be asking the company this as that is very important before you buy.

danielw · 06-12-2010, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smashwebs

I am very close to purchasing one of their universal kits, can anybody estimate how much extra cost is associated with one of these if I do everything myself? Also, what psi would this put out/how much whp without any tuning?

go over to my350z for the answers to your romantic queries. Please tell me you're joking when you say "without ANY tuning" You have to have tuning no matter what psi you run.

Q8y_drifter · 06-12-2010, 12:58 PM

Were you planning on going with the stock factory tune? If so, please get a video camera ready when you run it on the dyno. Never seen a VQ37 blow so far and this is a good opportunity

Phimosis · 06-12-2010, 03:03 PM

Smash:
There's a few issues involved with tuning. primary air/fuel ratio and ignition advance. The ideal (stoichiometric) A/F ratio is 14.7:1. This will make the most power with the least ammount of fuel burnt. It also burns very hot. If you add extra gasoline to the mixture and make it "richer", like 12.5:1, it makes less power and burns more fuel, but the added fuel provides a controlled burn so when oxygen levels drop, the flame goes out and cools the cylinder temperatures (quench effect). A stock sports car will run around 12.5:1 to make good power and keep gas mileage up. When you add boost, you use more fuel, make more power and therefore more heat. Aftermarket tuners will richen the mixture as low as 11.0:1. This keeps temperatures down to prevent melted pistons. It knocks a few hp off your total and also kills your gas mileage, but adds safety to your high rpm, full throttle adventures. Also, the added 50% hp over stock from boost more than outweighs the 2-3% you lose from the rich mixture. The next component is ignition timing. If the spark plug fires too early, you get engine "pinging" or "knock" . This is hard on pistons, wrist pins and connecting rods and can cause catastrophic engine failure. You get more engine knock from using a low octane gas or having a high compression ratio. High octane gas burns slower than low octane. High compression ratio makes the air/fuel charge hotter and the flame front travels faster on ignition. The solution is to retard the timing. Adding boost is like increasing the compression ratio, so the ignition needs to be retarded under boost. The more boost you have, the more retard you need. On the other hand, ignition timing retard kills power output for the emmount of fuel used because the spark occurs later and the gas is still burning when the exhaust valve opens and power is wasted by burning the gas in your exhaust manifold rather than in your cylinder. So... you need progressive ignition retard based on increasing boost levels. Your stock ECU wasn't programemd to run boost and won't retard the timing.

In summary, adding boost without at least doing some dyno tuning with a knowledgeable tuner will result in too lean of aur/fuel ratio and too much ignition advance, which will then slowly destroy your engine.....or quickly depending on how much boost you have and how long you run at high rpm/full throttle conditions.

Zsteve · 06-12-2010, 09:19 PM

Got to have tuning to get the gains and to keep everything in safe levels.

danielw · 06-13-2010, 12:24 PM

oh you can get the gains.... The safe levels are a different story though

jtown82 · 07-08-2010, 02:46 PM

there are quite a few STS systems in the ls1 world. and there are some wickedly fast ones. the boost lag is just slightly more than normal but they also inheritly produce better gains because of cooler air temps. and yes. nothing sounds better than a rear mounted turbo setup.

Zsteve · 07-08-2010, 02:56 PM

Im sure these work just fine, but how do they protect the turbo from road debri?

Phimosis · 07-09-2010, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsteve

Im sure these work just fine, but how do they protect the turbo from road debri?

Rear mounted turbos are roughly the same height as front mounted turbos. The surrounding structures protect them.

Jamaica · 07-10-2010, 01:46 AM

they have a kit in process. it will be a twin turbo. will debut at sema.

LiquidZ · 07-10-2010, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamaica951

they have a kit in process. it will be a twin turbo. will debut at sema.

Says who?

Zsteve · 07-10-2010, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phimosis

Rear mounted turbos are roughly the same height as front mounted turbos. The surrounding structures protect them.

what about things that get under car and bounce around? Do they shield the turbo?

Zsteve · 07-10-2010, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamaica951

they have a kit in process. it will be a twin turbo. will debut at sema.

This kind of setup should be easy to do compared to one in the engine bay. The hardest part will be the exhaust to the intakes and just making sure you use the right sized turbos.

cbutler · 07-10-2010, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquidZ

Says who?

They really do have a kit in the works. I know the owner of the car and the Peformance shop affiliated with the project, it will debut at Sema.

Zsteve · 07-10-2010, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbutler

They really do have a kit in the works. I know the owner of the car and the Peformance shop affiliated with the project, it will debut at Sema.

I wonder what size turbos they are using? I would want smaller ones that reach boost quickly to give us some more low to mid end tq and power.

Are they using an IC too?

06-12-2010, 09:19 PM	#260 (permalink)
Zsteve A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: TX Posts: 3,298 Drives: the 2 balled club Rep Power: 21	Got to have tuning to get the gains and to keep everything in safe levels. __________________ 2010 LS3 C6 Silver coupe corvette

07-08-2010, 02:56 PM	#263 (permalink)
Zsteve A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: TX Posts: 3,298 Drives: the 2 balled club Rep Power: 21	Im sure these work just fine, but how do they protect the turbo from road debri? __________________ 2010 LS3 C6 Silver coupe corvette

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06-12-2010, 12:58 PM	#258 (permalink)
Q8y_drifter Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 306 Drives: 08 Infiniti G35 5AT Rep Power: 15	Were you planning on going with the stock factory tune? If so, please get a video camera ready when you run it on the dyno. Never seen a VQ37 blow so far and this is a good opportunity

06-12-2010, 03:03 PM	#259 (permalink)
Phimosis Enthusiast Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Oildale, CA Posts: 412 Drives: 2013 911 4S Rep Power: 416	Smash: There's a few issues involved with tuning. primary air/fuel ratio and ignition advance. The ideal (stoichiometric) A/F ratio is 14.7:1. This will make the most power with the least ammount of fuel burnt. It also burns very hot. If you add extra gasoline to the mixture and make it "richer", like 12.5:1, it makes less power and burns more fuel, but the added fuel provides a controlled burn so when oxygen levels drop, the flame goes out and cools the cylinder temperatures (quench effect). A stock sports car will run around 12.5:1 to make good power and keep gas mileage up. When you add boost, you use more fuel, make more power and therefore more heat. Aftermarket tuners will richen the mixture as low as 11.0:1. This keeps temperatures down to prevent melted pistons. It knocks a few hp off your total and also kills your gas mileage, but adds safety to your high rpm, full throttle adventures. Also, the added 50% hp over stock from boost more than outweighs the 2-3% you lose from the rich mixture. The next component is ignition timing. If the spark plug fires too early, you get engine "pinging" or "knock" . This is hard on pistons, wrist pins and connecting rods and can cause catastrophic engine failure. You get more engine knock from using a low octane gas or having a high compression ratio. High octane gas burns slower than low octane. High compression ratio makes the air/fuel charge hotter and the flame front travels faster on ignition. The solution is to retard the timing. Adding boost is like increasing the compression ratio, so the ignition needs to be retarded under boost. The more boost you have, the more retard you need. On the other hand, ignition timing retard kills power output for the emmount of fuel used because the spark occurs later and the gas is still burning when the exhaust valve opens and power is wasted by burning the gas in your exhaust manifold rather than in your cylinder. So... you need progressive ignition retard based on increasing boost levels. Your stock ECU wasn't programemd to run boost and won't retard the timing. In summary, adding boost without at least doing some dyno tuning with a knowledgeable tuner will result in too lean of aur/fuel ratio and too much ignition advance, which will then slowly destroy your engine.....or quickly depending on how much boost you have and how long you run at high rpm/full throttle conditions.

06-13-2010, 12:24 PM	#261 (permalink)
danielw Base Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Concord, NC Posts: 80 Drives: 05 350Z Rep Power: 16	oh you can get the gains.... The safe levels are a different story though

07-08-2010, 02:46 PM	#262 (permalink)
jtown82 Base Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: southern Arkansas Posts: 158 Drives: 09 chicane yellow Z Rep Power: 15	there are quite a few STS systems in the ls1 world. and there are some wickedly fast ones. the boost lag is just slightly more than normal but they also inheritly produce better gains because of cooler air temps. and yes. nothing sounds better than a rear mounted turbo setup.

07-10-2010, 01:46 AM	#265 (permalink)
Jamaica A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: SoCal Posts: 15,362 Drives: Under boost Rep Power: 73	they have a kit in process. it will be a twin turbo. will debut at sema.