Buffing...is it bad?
 

So...I own a black car. Every small imperfection shows (even bug guts effect the damn clear coat). I want to get it buffed but have a friend who is like bigtime anti-buffing and says it destroys the clear coat over time. Is buffing really that bad? Will getting it done once a year or so really matter?

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Ive only heard good from buffing...

Swirl marks in clear coat as visible because light reflects through them. Buffing levels out the clear coat so light doesn't reflect through. You can remove enough clear coat by buffing that will be bad for the paint. Experienced detailers know how to do this properly, but a person who goes to the store and buys a buffer could potentially end up removing too much clear coat, resulting in various issues such as fading and oxidation.

What frost says, it kinda "blends" the clear coat in making those scratches not as noticable :)

It does that through microscopic abrasives in the compound. That's why good detailers have gauges that tell how thick the clear coat is ... so they don't accidentally take off too much.

Well I would get it professionally done, since I knew absolutely nothing about buffing.

I think youll be happy if you do

I'm sure you're fine with your once a year plan. The last detailer I used recommended getting it done right before the summer to better protect the paint from the sun.

I used to have a detail shop when I was 19. Buffing is fine, as long as you use the proper compound for the job at hand. For a new car they would probably use a light polish with very little abrasives. What people don't realize is that it can be a very messy job. I did a car with a heavily oxidized, blue Earl Scheib paint job, and I looked like a giant smurf when I was finished.

Take it from me. If you are goign to buff your car you better be sure you damn well know how to otherwise one wrong move can cost you hundreds to repair.

I suggest doing it yourself but practice because most detail shops will be covered somesort so if they rewin your car they arent liable. They can use any of teh below excuses.

The paint was real bad
The surface was so scratched it made it difficult to repair
The paint was not applied right
The paint was too thin
ETC and I know this because Ive had those problems in the past before I started.

So if you guys want to do a great job go to a website called adams polishes or something like that. Pick up some micro fiber towels, rubbing compound, polishing compound, finishing glaze, and a porter cable buffer. (spell check on the porter cable buffer)

The porter cable buffer does not rotate, it oscilates. So its the ideal buffer for beginners and experts. I love it, I dont own it but I have used it dozens of times in teh past. Its very hard to ruin a paint job with that since it does not rotate. If it does not rotate it makes it easier to not snag the corner of the paint job.

At that website there will be video tutorials on how to use it. I suggest practicing on a family members car first :P


I still need to post a DIY on polishing.

P.S Buffing is not bad if you do it a few times a year or when you really need to. Buffing does remove clear coat but it removes the clear coat by thousands of a cm at a time so if you are experianced then you are safe.

Polishing a car with swirl mark remover is much safer (3M swirl mark remover).

Please, please see a professional.

I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread. I was thinking on tackling it myself but I might have to reconsider.

They have Compounds that help prevent you from burning the paint such as High temp compound... you can lean into the buffer and it wont burn your paint...as long as there is enough compound on the car lol


DAN

If the paint is showing "issues" I would was the car, then I would use clay bar to remove all the "issues" not removed during the wash. Lastly I would use a "cleaner wax".

If the above does not solve the problem then I would take it to a reputable professional.

if i ever wanted to buff my car, i would get a professional to do it. if buffing was bad, pros won't use it for your car. but if you don't know what you are doing, that's a different story.

i don't want to spend 200 in equipment and screw up the paint job. rather have someone that is trained to do it.

Please for the sake of all 370Zs on the road do not attempt to buff your Z. Also be careful of detailers that use fillers to make your swirl marks disappear - they will just show back up when you wash the filler out after x number of washes. Also be careful of detailers that cut to much of your clear coat off - that brings you dangerously close to clear coat failure.

Now that I know all this stuff about detailing (but don't have the skills to do it myself) there is only one person I'd take my car to to get it done - someone who actually cares about the work he does rather than a business that need to be profitable with employees not necessarily interested in doing an excellent job. Good luck with that..... :/

...and this is why you let a professional do your car.... (I'll have to get some higher res pictures but you'll get the point ;) I asked NXTAZEE to take some pics before/after and the results are astonishing. When we pulled around the garage to pick the car up it just blew my mind how amazing the car looked - it was like black chrome - AWESOME!

Wow, I think this just sold me on getting it done lol.

I have a black G and wanted to Porter Cable it. So I bought a whole kit and did it. Turned out well and I read tons of instructions and it looks good.

So no worries about it. It is only bad if you buff the same spot for too long. Burning is what's it's called.

PM me if you want a link to the site I buy and read from.

The funny thing is - and a ton of detailers I'm sure hear it all the time - is that the guy that bring his black car in thinks its not too bad - just like the guy that owns the car above. Take a look at the door panel before/after split.... its like one side was in the junk yard and the other just drove off the factory line with the paint still wet....

+rep for those pictures but DAM what did you do to it, to get it like that? Did you buy it that way?

People think im a nut job how i wash/take care of my car but you went in the oposite direction i think lol

Buffing Tips
 

I have color sand new car clear coat Z bumper covers to level out the paint for a smooth-as glass gloss shine. For some pointers, one can purchase John Tetz's "Paint-U-Cation" DVD's for the art of color sanding & buffing available from EASTWOOD.COM. Try out your budding skills on several test panals first prior to going deep on your Z's clear coated paint. Good luck!!:tup:

I "love" my 370 and all that, but uh...with all due respect peeps...IT'S ONLY A F*CKING CAR!

Yeah, take care of it and don't neglect it like those people who plaster their cars with political/musical affiliation stickers and don't wash it for like 10 years straight. Yeah, these people view their cars as a means to ends--transportation! They're not concerned whether you think they drive a bucket or not.

I understand we drive a special car, albeit it's not a Ferrari, and it's nonetheless extraordinary. But gosh!!!! Some of you get so ridiculous about wash/wax/buff etc. and examine every f&cking nuance, detail blah blah blah about what chemicals harm this, what buffer fibers destroy what. You guys sound like those "health experts" who'd claim that drinking tap water versus "organic bottled water" will lead to cancer--SALES PITCH!

I appreciate the input from a lot of you guys because you guys are so knowledgable about hi-performance tips, car care etc. But man, some of you DWELL on this to an EXTREME.

I wash my car with Palmolive dish wash soap, wax it with carnuaba Turtle wax...and the muthaf%cka still looks HOT! And no, no swirl marks--yet--just bird droppings and dead knats here and there.

...and to each his own. Most of my time is "wasted" here on the forums - as in I'm not actually contribuiting or getting anything out of it other than just shooting the breeze with a bunch of fellow enthusist.

To some this car is just to get from A to B in style or fast, etc. It just a shiny tool or something to make themselves feel important, etc. This car gets me from A to R to M to Z to Z to Z to Z to B - any excuse to enjoy this engineering marvel. To me its also an incredible piece of art - and that art is enhanced by detailing. Its kinda like shining your trophy - some care and some don't. So for those of us who appreciate this car like a piece of art we take care of it that way. For those of you who use it and couldn't care less then I guess this thread isn't for you ;P

I can in no way take any credit for this detailing job - it was a labour of love by NXTAZEE who spent well over eight hours clay baring, compounding and polishing this not just back to its former glory but beyond - well beyond its new condition.

So while some would take the Mona Lisa and staple it over the hole in the wall others like NXTAZEE would create a beautiful frame suitable for such a piece of art.....

I'll say this again, "please don't wet sand your cars". I been in this business a long time and wet sanding is usually never needed. There really isn't enough clear on even new paint to try to wet sand it level so you have no orange peel. If you guy's start wet sanding your cars only bad can come of it. Unless you want to start detailing as a hobby, call some one that knows what they are doing. If you do want to detail as a hobby, then spend the hundreds of hours of research and "hands on training" so you will do it right.

Honestly, if you don't like the question...there is no need to leave assanine comments - just move the f on.

I'm guessing the vast majority of the enthusiasts here like to take care of their cars.

Knowing a lot about the subject and never doing it are different. I do a lot of detailing, and can tell you this car is no different then others. mny etails with buffing/polishing on nissans from pathfinders to 350z to porches etc... yes there are different types of paint but all can be buffed. the issue comes don to most people not knowing how to wash and dry the correct way, thats where most of the swirls and abrasions come from. so first learn that and you'll minimize swirling in your paint. you can learn A LOT on this subject from Detail University very good people and professionals over there.

There is a difference with this paint compared with a lot of others. It comes down to the hardness of the paint, which in return will marr a lot easier than say some Chevy vehicles. 370 paint is fairly soft so proper washing is essential. Yes all paint can be polished if there is enough clear on the car.

Proper wash technique is paramount. Use two buckets and a sheepskin wash mitt. One bucket for the wash and one for the rinse. After pre-rinsing the car wash about a 2x2 foot area at a time rinsing in between. Wash from the Top of the car to the bottom with light pressure or you will marr your paint. Tires and rims must have separate mitts and a separate bucket is recommended. Never cross contaminate or you will pay dearly. Wash out mitt and hang to dry. Use a microfiber drying towel to dry the car or better yet a leaf blower, this really is a nice way to dry the car with out marring it.

What I use for my customers when I wash a previously polished car is a foam gun. This eliminates the wash bucket and continually sprays soap between paint and mitt for a perfect marr free wash. It is also great for claying as there is continual lubrication. Hope this helps.

I use a porter cable random orbital buffer on my black car works just fine. Just make sure not to use an abrasive pad on it.

....as long as it wasn't like the black car above where the owner thought the paint looked just fine as well ;)

Yeah, there is a little more to it than that. If you are trying to remove medium to heavy swirling you will definitely need more than a polishing pad. Cutting, polishing and finishing pads are needed to achieve the best results. Knowing the right pad and polish combo, the right pressure with the right speed with the right technique, this is what is needed to achieve superior results. You also have to consider the type of paint being worked on, as they are all different, and the right amount of polish for the pad as well as how long to work the polish. Polishes with diminishing abrasives differ from polishes with non-diminishing abrasives. Not working the polish just right will leave the finish in a less than desirable state. Also a polish or compound that works well on paint "A" may not work as well on paint "B". Just a few of the things I've learned over the years.

Here is a better picture of the before/after side by side of the G35 and the car after a road trip and a few days of driving around (eg no wash/wax yet).....

If youre interested in learning more about proper paint care I suggest you join these forums:

Detailing Classes - Sign Up Here - Car Care Forums: Meguiar's Online

They offer "mobile" classes, but for the most part they're only offered in California and the more 'popular' regions. If they happen to have one in your area I suggest you attend. Everyone here has a new car so it's the perfect time to learn.

I took classes when I bought my first new car (06 Si), and she's one of the best maintained Si's in So Cal - although my opinion is probably a bit biased. :) Meguiars offers a ton of learning resources which is why I stick with them, but Mothers products are also very competitive, as is 3M with their 303 protectant etc. Spend some time and check out your options!

buffing causes swirl marks..

No. Look at the photo's above, do you see any swirl marks in the black G35 I polished. Now an inexperienced person will more than likely cause swirling from polishing incorrectly.

Buffing CAN cause swirl marks, but most of the time it's either intentional or because you're doing it wrong. Always make sure you have a clean buffing pad. NEVER use a pad after you drop it on the floor or let it come in contact with anything soiled with any sort of grit. Make sure you're using the right pad for the right application, and make sure you're using the correct compounds.

There are alot of detail shops that offer buffing as a service that have "technicians" :rolleyes: that have no clue how to buff. Before employing anyone I would ask to see their credentials or ask them questions that can determine if they have a clue or not.

If I start doing this, I have a 97 Ford Ranger to test on, then a 2005 Civic to get more experience with, then a 2006 motorcycle I can easily screw up if I don't know what I'm doing by then....

Before hitting the Z...

That's an "if i start DIY detailing..."

I'm 100x more picky about details than anyone I know. I have an eye for finding flaws, usually. My wife does graphic art, and sees things right away that I don't too...so we're both pretty hard with regards to what perfection really is to us...versus someone else.

I found a detailer here in town that has done cars that make the 370z amount to a pile of pocket fuzz and change by comparison. I figure if the owners of those cars were happy with the results...then I can bank on him doing a good job on mine.

I totally agree. Also, using a clay bar after washing the car will remove allot of debris from the paint. By removing this additional dirt, and always using clean pads (as mentioned above) I get pretty good results with my Porter Cable. My detail procedure is as follows:
1) wash (with dawn)
2) clay bar
3) wash again (new water soap)
4) polish (somtimes I use a cleaner first)
5) glaze (optional, but good for balck)
6) wax