Z1 Motorsport oil cooler install, oil warning light at start up

peter_s · 10-11-2013, 02:38 AM

Hi fellas,

my car is at the shop getting the oil cooler kit installed.

My mechanic has done a great job installing everything after the instruction manual, but there is one problem.

When the engine is cold, the oil warning light stays on for over 5 seconds at start up. This problem does not occur after the system has been pressurized and been warmed up. Leave the car for a couple of hours to cool down and the problem is back. There is no noise from the engine during this period.

Now, we have been going through everything, and can't find any faults with the installation (what we know of anyway). To me it seems like some oil is flowing back to the sump creating an air pocket.

So the question is: Is this a problem and why does the pressure light come on? Can I live with it or will I harm the engine?

Whtfairladyz · 10-11-2013, 02:50 AM

A few questions:

1) Are you sure that you pre-filled the oil cooler during the install?
2) Did you adjust the oil level after initial start up once the lines have been primed?
3) Are you certain all lines are routed as instructed? 100% certain no oil cooler lines are pinched?
4) Have you inspected the cooler; lines and sandwich plate to ensure that there are no leaks of any kind?

Just curious to see what I can do to help out with this one. This product was important to me during my time at Z1.

peter_s · 10-11-2013, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whtfairladyz

A few questions:

1) Are you sure that you pre-filled the oil cooler during the install?
2) Did you adjust the oil level after initial start up once the lines have been primed?
3) Are you certain all lines are routed as instructed? 100% certain no oil cooler lines are pinched?
4) Have you inspected the cooler; lines and sandwich plate to ensure that there are no leaks of any kind?

Just curious to see what I can do to help out with this one. This product was important to me during my time at Z1.

Thanks Dustin,

I'll try to answer as best as I can. My mechanic is having his the day off today. I'm a bit keen of finishing off this project since I have to go to Germany next week with the car.

1. I'm not 100% sure of that, what difference would that make?
2. Oil level was adjusted.
3. Lines are routed exactly as by the instructions AFAIK
4. There are no leaks.

Cheers mate, appreciate you taking the time.

Whtfairladyz · 10-11-2013, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter_s

1. I'm not 100% sure of that, what difference would that make?
A: The core, depending on what size you purchased, can hold anywhere from .25 to nearly 1 qt of oil on its own. Simply "topping off" may not bring the oil up to level when considering the core's volume.

2. Oil level was adjusted.
Q: Was the oil low after initial start up? Where on the dipstick was it reading?

3. Lines are routed exactly as by the instructions AFAIK
A: Double check the best you can around the crash beam and into the wheel well. That bit of the routing was tight. If a line is kinked, it may cause a pressure issue.

4. There are no leaks.

Cheers mate, appreciate you taking the time.

See response above.

peter_s · 10-11-2013, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whtfairladyz

1. I'm not 100% sure of that, what difference would that make?
A: The core, depending on what size you purchased, can hold anywhere from .25 to nearly 1 qt of oil on its own. Simply "topping off" may not bring the oil up to level when considering the core's volume.

2. Oil level was adjusted.
Q: Was the oil low after initial start up? Where on the dipstick was it reading?

3. Lines are routed exactly as by the instructions AFAIK
A: Double check the best you can around the crash beam and into the wheel well. That bit of the routing was tight. If a line is kinked, it may cause a pressure issue.

4. There are no leaks.

Cheers mate, appreciate you taking the time.

See response above.

Thanks Dustin,

Regarding 1-2, the oil was checked after the initial start and topped up accordingly. I can't say right now what the level on the dipstick was. If the oil was too low, it should still sort itself out after topping up accordingly?

3. I will pass this information along. I will make sure he double checks all the lines one extra time.

But this is not normal behaviour as I can tell? Have you seen this issue before?

peter_s · 10-11-2013, 07:29 AM

I would just like to add that there is almost 1 qt. extra oil in the engine now compared to before the install.

Chuck33079 · 10-11-2013, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter_s

I would just like to add that there is almost 1 qt. extra oil in the engine now compared to before the install.

An extra quart in the oil pan, or just an additional quart of total capacity? Stupid question, but it was installed with the fittings on the core facing up, right?

peter_s · 10-11-2013, 07:54 AM

Hi Chuck,

yes the core is installed with the mountings facing upwards. Just like the instructions showed. No question is stupid, got to ask to know

En extra quart was required to fill the oil cooler and lines in total. The mechanic told me that almost one litre of extra oil is in the system now compared to stock. I don't really understand what you mean, but as I have understood it, the oil dip stick now show a full pan, and the extra quart has been distributed in the system.

Now, as I said, we have been going through the installation and we are really puzzled by this. Mainly because it's just a cooler and some hoses, there is nothing really different that should affect the oil pressure. The only thing I can think of is that there is an air pocket somewhere after it's been sitting for a while. But what to do about it?

Chuck33079 · 10-11-2013, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter_s

Hi Chuck,

yes the core is installed with the mountings facing upwards. Just like the instructions showed. No question is stupid, got to ask to know

En extra quart was required to fill the oil cooler and lines in total. The mechanic told me that almost one litre of extra oil is in the system now compared to stock. I don't really understand what you mean, but as I have understood it, the oil dip stick now show a full pan, and the extra quart has been distributed in the system.

Now, as I said, we have been going through the installation and we are really puzzled by this. Mainly because it's just a cooler and some hoses, there is nothing really different that should affect the oil pressure. The only thing I can think of is that there is an air pocket somewhere after it's been sitting for a while. But what to do about it?

My first thought was the core was installed upside down, and it was draining back into the pan when it sits. If that's not the case, I've got nothing.

peter_s · 10-11-2013, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

My first thought was the core was installed upside down, and it was draining back into the pan when it sits. If that's not the case, I've got nothing.

Good point, but sadly it isn't the case.

Maybe this is not something to worry about, but I'd rather be extra careful in a case like this. I don't like to be uncertain when it comes to the oil system. I drive my car hard when I'm on the track (as anyone would do), and next weekend I'm going to the Nurburgring. I've already had one car towed back to Sweden from there, I'd rather not do that again.

Maybe the sensor is just very sensitive, and now when the oil system is of a larger capacity it's just warning because it's outside of standard spec. I mean, could be a number of things, but I would like to get a clue if it's a real problem I have.

Also, I drive my car year round and I've seen below 0 deg F, even below -20F with it. When it's that cold the oil is thick, so I'm extra cautious.

synolimit · 10-15-2013, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

My first thought was the core was installed upside down, and it was draining back into the pan when it sits. If that's not the case, I've got nothing.

It can't drain back with oil filter installed. Many many people install with fittings on the bottom with no problems. Its better because once the filter is removed the oil will drain out of the core and you can do a real oil change and not just 83% of one.

Chuck33079 · 10-15-2013, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by synolimit

It can't drain back with oil filter installed. Many many people install with fittings on the bottom with no problems. Its better because once the filter is removed the oil will drain out of the core and you can do a real oil change and not just 83% of one.

Really? Seems like the people who made the cooler put the fittings up for this very reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dustin@Z1

On my personal Z's, I pull the oil cooler off every 3rd or 4th oil change to flush it out and refill it (or I do when I am prepping my Z for a track event...but since time has been limited here lately, track events have not been as frequent).

We recommend that the fittings to face upward simply because of concerns we all shared about oil starvation caused by the oil running out of the core.
Oil will drain out of the core whenever you turn the engine off and oil pressure is relieved. This will in turn cause a few things to occur:

The core will be drained each and every time
Excessive oil will fill up the oil pan
The oil pump will now be forced to prime the oil cooler and lines each and every time you start the car.
Air pockets will be likely (or possible) to form in the core.
It will be difficult, if not impossible, to achieve an accurate oil level reading.
When your engine is forced to prime the oil cooler and lines, it is then taking away vital oil pressure from critical engine components.

With all of this said, we believed that the additional hassell of having to periodically remove the core and flush it was far less costly and risky as opposed to flipping the core upside down (to facilitate easier oil changes).

The fittings are made of aluminum. I HIGHLY recommend using vaseline or some kind of lubricant whenever you are re-assembling AN fittings. Keep in mind, you are forcing aluminum against aluminum. In time, without some sort of lubricant, it will wear out the fittings and could create a leak later on down the road. A lubricant will prolong the life of the fittings, and make life easier.

ValidusVentus...you are correct. Our kit does NOT require you to move or alter the OEM PWS cooler. Even our upgraded Transmission cooler (soon to be released) still functions with the OEM PWS cooler and does not require it to be moved or modified. At the same time, all of our kits are mostly BOLT ON and require little to no drilling. Our upper oil cooler bracket does require drilling of the center core support brace, but it is optional (although highly recommended).

Each Setrab Core volumes...for those of you who are wondering...are as follows:

6 Series 19 Row 0.40 QTs
6 Series 25 Row 0.55 QTs
6 Series 34 Row 0.75 Qts

For the Z1 kit specifically, you are looking at roughly 0.34 QTs for the -10 AN Lines.

And other members have reported the same

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

I was working on the cars with two other Z owners today and recognized a very important issue with my oil cooler. As many people have oil coolers with the cooler fittings facing down (toward the ground, as Modshack's DIY shows), this is a potentially very important issue.

The cooler is mounted above the oil pan. This means that a good quantity of the oil in the cooler will backflow to the oil pan when the system isn't pressurized (engine is off). This has important ramifications on dipstick measurements! When the car is running, the oil pan oil level will be nearly 1 quart lower than when the engine is off. This became readily apparent after draining the oil from the pan and the cooler (disconnected one line). We refilled the system with 6 quarts (stock without cooler is 5 1/8), ran the engine for about 30 seconds to self-prime the system and then turned off the engine. Checking the oil level by dipstick immediately after shutting off the engine gave a full reading (even with top dipstick hole below H). Waiting five minutes later gave a reading well above the H. Yes, some oil drains down from the engine internals. However, the more important phenomenon here is that the oil cooler back flows to the pan if the fittings are toward the ground. Thus, if you don't keep your oil pan level near the high mark with the engine off, you may be running at or below the low mark when the engine is running with the cooler fully primed.

I brought this up with Modshack once and he dismissed the idea. He said that he got 1 quart of oil out of the cooler when he disconnected one line and drained it into a measuring cup. This may be due to the type of oil filter or sandwich plate he was using. Today I used a Purolator PureONE filter with a Mocal 200F thermostatic plate and there is back flow. Very little oil drains out when a line is disconnected with the oil pan already drained.

The takeaway message is this: If you have an oil cooler with the fittings down, an engine off dipstick reading at the H hole really means you're running with the minimum amount of oil in the sump (L-->H holes is 1 quart). Make sure you add 6 quarts!

You've been forewarned!

peter_s · 10-14-2013, 02:21 AM

I had a big discussion this morning with my mechanic. We have now double checked everything, and we are starting to suspect the oil filter housing/adapter as a possible source of the problem. That is coming off now, so we can inspect it.

Is there supposed to be a valve blocking the reverse flow in the oil filter adapter?

Boss_302 · 10-14-2013, 06:37 AM

I recently installed a Z-1 25 row oil cooler with thermostatic housing. I basically installed the cooler as directed and had no issues in start up. Did have to add a quart of oil. Primed the filter and cooler during assembly to minimize air in the system when started. The two things I didn't like about the kit was the oil lines could have been a couple of inches shorter. I was also not pleased with the Mocal adapter construction and machine work. I've done engine work in the pass so it was time to get out the die grinder and smooth the oil passage and sharp machine edges, The other thing I didn't like about the adapter was the way the oil filter extension fitting seats on the adapter. You have to be careful when tightening to get the socket fully seated so you don't strip the nut, 6-point socket is strongly recommended. Since all this I found that Mocal makes a new heavy duty more robust adapter for only a few dollars more. I would check the sensor's and wires and make sure nothing is damaged or grounded.

peter_s · 10-14-2013, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss_302

I recently installed a Z-1 25 row oil cooler with thermostatic housing. I basically installed the cooler as directed and had no issues in start up. Did have to add a quart of oil. Primed the filter and cooler during assembly to minimize air in the system when started. The two things I didn't like about the kit was the oil lines could have been a couple of inches shorter. I was also not pleased with the Mocal adapter construction and machine work. I've done engine work in the pass so it was time to get out the die grinder and smooth the oil passage and sharp machine edges, The other thing I didn't like about the adapter was the way the oil filter extension fitting seats on the adapter. You have to be careful when tightening to get the socket fully seated so you don't strip the nut, 6-point socket is strongly recommended. Since all this I found that Mocal makes a new heavy duty more robust adapter for only a few dollars more. I would check the sensor's and wires and make sure nothing is damaged or grounded.

Cheers, appreciate your input. I'll look into the other housings.

Car is now back to stock and everything is back to normal.

Funny thing is that the oil pressure took time to build up, it also took a long time to release. Now when it's stock the oil light turns on very quickly after shutting it off (as it should). With the oil cooler system installed it kept the pressure up for a long time. To me it really seems like some kind of valve is acting up. But my mechanic took apart the thermostat after taking it off the car and he said everything looked normal with it. As it looks now, it's open when cold and then it shuts close when it's warm forcing the oil through the new loop/cooler.

It's a really strange problem this...

10-11-2013, 02:38 AM	#1 (permalink)
peter_s Base Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Gothenburg, Sweden Posts: 16 Drives: 370z - Manual Rep Power: 13	Z1 Motorsport oil cooler install, oil warning light at start up Hi fellas, my car is at the shop getting the oil cooler kit installed. My mechanic has done a great job installing everything after the instruction manual, but there is one problem. When the engine is cold, the oil warning light stays on for over 5 seconds at start up. This problem does not occur after the system has been pressurized and been warmed up. Leave the car for a couple of hours to cool down and the problem is back. There is no noise from the engine during this period. Now, we have been going through everything, and can't find any faults with the installation (what we know of anyway). To me it seems like some oil is flowing back to the sump creating an air pocket. So the question is: Is this a problem and why does the pressure light come on? Can I live with it or will I harm the engine?

10-11-2013, 02:50 AM	#2 (permalink)
Whtfairladyz Base Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Winchester, TN Posts: 77 Drives: '92 Nissan 300zx Rep Power: 265	A few questions: 1) Are you sure that you pre-filled the oil cooler during the install? 2) Did you adjust the oil level after initial start up once the lines have been primed? 3) Are you certain all lines are routed as instructed? 100% certain no oil cooler lines are pinched? 4) Have you inspected the cooler; lines and sandwich plate to ensure that there are no leaks of any kind? Just curious to see what I can do to help out with this one. This product was important to me during my time at Z1. __________________ Whtfairladyz formerly Dustin@Z1

10-11-2013, 07:54 AM	#8 (permalink)
peter_s Base Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Gothenburg, Sweden Posts: 16 Drives: 370z - Manual Rep Power: 13	Hi Chuck, yes the core is installed with the mountings facing upwards. Just like the instructions showed. No question is stupid, got to ask to know En extra quart was required to fill the oil cooler and lines in total. The mechanic told me that almost one litre of extra oil is in the system now compared to stock. I don't really understand what you mean, but as I have understood it, the oil dip stick now show a full pan, and the extra quart has been distributed in the system. Now, as I said, we have been going through the installation and we are really puzzled by this. Mainly because it's just a cooler and some hoses, there is nothing really different that should affect the oil pressure. The only thing I can think of is that there is an air pocket somewhere after it's been sitting for a while. But what to do about it? Last edited by peter_s; 10-11-2013 at 07:55 AM. Reason: Spelling

10-14-2013, 02:21 AM	#13 (permalink)
peter_s Base Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Gothenburg, Sweden Posts: 16 Drives: 370z - Manual Rep Power: 13	I had a big discussion this morning with my mechanic. We have now double checked everything, and we are starting to suspect the oil filter housing/adapter as a possible source of the problem. That is coming off now, so we can inspect it. Is there supposed to be a valve blocking the reverse flow in the oil filter adapter? Last edited by peter_s; 10-14-2013 at 02:31 AM.

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10-11-2013, 07:29 AM	#6 (permalink)
peter_s Base Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Gothenburg, Sweden Posts: 16 Drives: 370z - Manual Rep Power: 13	I would just like to add that there is almost 1 qt. extra oil in the engine now compared to before the install.

10-14-2013, 06:37 AM	#14 (permalink)
Boss_302 Base Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: NY NY Posts: 150 Drives: 11 Nissan 370z S Mt Rep Power: 12	I recently installed a Z-1 25 row oil cooler with thermostatic housing. I basically installed the cooler as directed and had no issues in start up. Did have to add a quart of oil. Primed the filter and cooler during assembly to minimize air in the system when started. The two things I didn't like about the kit was the oil lines could have been a couple of inches shorter. I was also not pleased with the Mocal adapter construction and machine work. I've done engine work in the pass so it was time to get out the die grinder and smooth the oil passage and sharp machine edges, The other thing I didn't like about the adapter was the way the oil filter extension fitting seats on the adapter. You have to be careful when tightening to get the socket fully seated so you don't strip the nut, 6-point socket is strongly recommended. Since all this I found that Mocal makes a new heavy duty more robust adapter for only a few dollars more. I would check the sensor's and wires and make sure nothing is damaged or grounded.