New Clutch Install. Pedal won't return.
 

Nissan did my Southbend Stage 3 Daily clutch install today. Also a ZSpeed HD CSC.

The pedal only has an inch or so of return and is full engagement the entire way down. I can pick the pedal off of the floor and it comes back with the helper spring, but once depressed the first 4-5 inches are dead and then it engages at the very bottom. There is also a pretty good chatter when rolling from a stop in first (stock flywheel).

It seems everyone else with this problem was junk stock csc, so is this an improperly installed csc?

My guess is they never adjusted the master cylinder? It was after 5 so the techs were all gone, but its going back in Monday morning. Halp? :ughdance:

Just sounds like it needs a re-bleed. The CSC's are tricky to bleed, usually takes a drive to shake things loose and then another bleed. Increased chatter is expected.

I just finished putting in that same set up,gravity bleed then pump it slow then bleed and with no pressure on the system crack the line at the m/c let it bleed for a few seconds tighten and ck the pedal.

I agree with ChrisSlicks - sounds like the system still has some air in it (and/or the level is low).

It's frustrating when Nissan techs can't get it right.

Tell me about it. I was just telling you on Thursday how I wanted Nissan to do it so I didn't have to deal with bleeding issues.

Sooooo I went to take the car in this morning and about put it through the front the wall of my garage by starting it in gear. Got it out of gear so that I could start it and now there is no chance of getting it back in gear. Guessing this means air in the line......

I told you how to bleed it,that is how Joe @ Zspeed said and it worked great.

Yeah I have talked to Joe about it a few times this weekend. He's been great.

It's on Nissan at this point. They are sending their truck out to get the car and I will talk to the tech about how to bleed it.

What's confusing as hell is that they would ever let the car go out the door like that anyway.

Even following the Z-Speed CSC bleeding instructions to the T, we usually bleed it a few extra times. There is also an adjustment on the clutch pedal itself that can help with low/high pedal engagement if that's an issue once you get the pedal to return to normal. It takes a surprising number of cycles to get all the air out of the new CSC lines.

Thanks,
Alex Goodwin
AlexG@motionlabtuning.com

With mine I ended up having to change out the CMC to get mine to work right. It has been 100% ever since.

I talked to the tech and he said he followed the ZSpeed instructions (and actually read them back to me from the top of his head almost verbatim).

We will see how it goes. I imagine I will end up doing a master as well, but the car only has ~6800 miles on it so it seems strange that a master would "fail" that soon.

Also slammed Z + shitastic driveway + tow truck = one awesome Monday morning.

Sorry to hear about the trouble Austin. FWIW, my car had similar milage as yours when I got my clutch installed and I have/had the same bleeding issues. Right now it feels ok after I bled it, but I think I'll replace the CMC anyways.

I think it comes down to the way they bleed them from factory. I wouldnt be surprised if they hook up a pump to do it for them and never actually have to bleed the stock CSC. I do know with mine when I pulled it out I could not blow throw it (which you must be able to do in order for it to bleed itself). Thats one sure way to tell if you need a new one or not.

We have it down to the bleeder screw on the CSC leaking and letting air back in.

The system will build pressure and then 5-10 minutes later, air gets back in through the bleeder (fluid is pooling on top of the transmission brace and slowly dropping from the bleed screw) They are replacing the bleed screw and trying again. Fingers crossed.

I dont think that would cause your issues, I mean if you had that leaking it would spray out of there when you pressed the clutch and pressurized the system. Not to mention a leak there would not pull air back into the system so much as let all the fluid run out. The way the upgraded CSC (which I am assuming you have?) is setup is to facilitate gravity bleeding and even after letting it gravity bleed you should have a stiff pedal right off the bat.

The fact that the pedal wont return leads me to think that even at the start of the stroke you have negative pressure in the line. Its this negative pressure that is going to hold that plunger to the floor. If you had a leak you would infact see the opposite. You would have no feeling in the pedal at all and it would feel like it was not doing anything.

The CMC has to be able to in effect breath into the reservoir so that at the start of every stroke your clutch system is effectively sitting at atmospheric pressure. If its not it will stick.

Question for you, where you able to gravity bleed the system? (IE. crack the bleeder and run the fluid through the system on its own) Mine would not gravity bleed which pointed directly to an obstruction in the CMC. I actually ended up pulling my CMC apart and taking a dremel to it to get it to work for the time being.

Nissan is doing all of this (which I am definitely beginning to regret). That being said when I asked him this morning if he followed the ZSpeed instructions, he said he let it gravity bleed for 15 minutes. But he never said if that was successful either.

When I went back by after work (the convenience factor here is that the dealership is literally on the way home and 3 miles from both work and home), the tech had left for the day. They said they were having a tough time finding the correct pitch bleeder screw (after I told them they were 3/8-24). I'm sure I had a "well derp" look on my face when I said I will go get them and bring them in the morning.

Anyway, here is a pic of the female end of the compression fitting on the bleed screw: http://i.imgur.com/pO1Zje0.jpg
You can see how it isn't concentric, although it should very much seal.

I'll take the new bleeder screws in tomorrow morning and if that doesn't get it (it won't), I'm bringing the car home so that I can do this myself.

Also, I'm beginning to think the small pool of fluid and droplets are just residue of what is left inside the bleeder screw. I'm going to make him blow it out with an air gun and then try it again tomorrow.

Also, out of curiosity, what exactly causes the CMC failure??

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

So replaced the bleeder valve. Still does it as expected. Here is the word from Nissan...

After bleeding, it feels/drives normal. As you drive for a bit longer, the pedal eventually starts sticking to the floor again.

Thoughts????????

If it feels good and then bleeds down then it is either the CMC or it still has air in it.

I think I'm going to bring the car home, drain all the fluid, and start over. Then if it still does it, go the CMC route.

There is just a part of me that feels like the tech isn't fully bleeding it....

Don't take the fluid out, alott of people keep bleeding and bleeding and get half azz results ,I had the same problem as you and Joe told me to tighten the bleeder then crack the line at the CMC let it flow for a few seconds then tighten it up I did that and my pedal was rock hard at the top and for the last 350 miles everything is still good.

My guess, they probably f'd up the threads by trying to use the wrong bleeder or they accidentally loosened the line fitting (just barely) on the CSC during installation.

Lunch hour update:

I have a co-worker that used to sling parts for Nissan and we have called around. There is a service bulletin for this exact problem:

2011 Nissan 370z Power Train Service Bulletin 353407
NHTSA: Action Number: 10051926 Service Bulletin Number: 353407
Report Date:Apr 10, 2013 Component:Power Train
Summary: Nissan: clutch pedal does not return to rest position.

The remedy is GTR brake fluid. I talked to Joe (who I would like to say has been a rockstar and answered every one of my retarded questions) and he said this usually doesn't fix it.

Nissan is going to re-bleed (following Joe's bleed instructions perfectly) using GTR fluid at their cost. If this doesn't fix it, they are over-nighting a CMC and replacing under warranty. If this doesn't fix it, they are under strict orders to take it out back and light it on fire.

I still put all my money on a faulty CMC. Mine didnt make sense either, but it is what it is

Me too. I think the thought behind the GTR fluid is that is covers up that slop in the CMC.

No, the high-temp fluid is to prevent the fluid from boiling. The cheap DOT-3 fluid they put into the clutch system is easily boiled especially given how close the clutch line runs to the exhaust (there is a small piece of insulation) and the heat from the clutch etc.

The #1 reason for the sunken clutch is boiled fluid, creating air pockets.

The #2 reason is failed CSC (leaking fluids, empty reservoir).

The #3 reason is failed Master.

:iagree:

New CMC and GTR Dot 4 on Thursday and everything was fine again. Got ballsy and took it on a 900 mile round trip this weekend and everything held just fine. Thanks for all the help guys. It appears there is no mileage limit to the CMC failure. They appear to be a one and done most of the time.

I was just going to message you. I replaced my CMC two nights ago and was able to go for a test drive today. All is good. I'm going to give it a couple days/drives then I'll adjust my RJM Performance clutch pedal assembly.

Glad to hear you got things up and running. All ready for boost now! :tup:

I'm actually surprised at how noisy this clutch is, even on the stock flywheel.
I know it's to be expected, but first and second are pretty loud.

I'm a little surprised.

I have the same one as you but with a 19 steel flywheel and the only time I can hear it is at idle after a long ride.

I have chatter in first and second almost every time. Occasional it "pops."

When does it pop?

It did it on two occasions today. First was after about 150 miles all highway. Pulled into the gas station. Real slow in first and second. Did it two or three times while releasing. Very last bit of engagement. Car sat for ten minutes or so then about 15 minutes later at a light accelerating from first at the last bit of engagement it did it again. Out of the 900 miles or so, those are the only times.

I get a slight chatter after a drive and only at idle. Not loud, most people probably wouldn't notice. I have the 24lb SouthBend flywheel. I haven't noticed any "pops".

Do you have a stock clutch pedal or a RJM one?

stock pedal, stock flywheel, new master, zspeed csc, southbend stage 3 daily, GTR dot 4

The only popping noise that I can hear is from under the dash when releasing the clutch pedal the CMC rod comes back and rubs on the the black rubber dust boot and makes a little popping noise.