Nissan consult3 diagnostic error? You Pay?

fritz · 03-31-2011, 04:45 AM

Situation #1 (at 2500 miles, 2 months from new):
"Car rescue" at dealership. Car starts with metallic noises but there's no
accelerator- to-throttles connection. It Idles (warm) at 1200 RPM.
Execution:
Show customer the diagnostics: DTC P1090 for VVEL ACTR MOT-B1 and a separate DTC P1093 for VVEL ACTR MOT B-2. Also a DTC P0300 for "all cylinders misfire".
Customer protests this was a wrong diagnosis. Techs get a good laugh.
Estimate is 2weeks (Customer home is 1000 miles away. He changes plans)

Customer checks dealership after 11 days. They're "awaiting parts"
At 15 days: customer collects car. It is written that it's warranty work but he has to pay. Nissan and original seller duck the warranty absolutely.
Part used. One relay. The old part is handed to the customer.

Upshot: Customer opens up the dud relay which reveals a normal, simple,
"M1" relay. Tested? One time in 2 it does not connect, or disconnects.
Confused? Repairer's tech folk are innocent....a place to recommend.

Consult3 Customer (unbelieving and desperate) buys one for (but not from) Nissan. It lives in the car, ready for use with his laptop.

Situation #2 (2450 miles later)
Car suddenly slowed and was nearly rammed by a too close truck.
Same old problem with slight metallic noises on starting.

Customer's own Consult3 shows the same readouts as in situation # 1 above.
1.Both VVEL ACTR Motors can hardly fail at the same time, surely?
2 The."Multi cyl misfire" DTC, (P0300), is wrong for a glass smooth motor.
3.Shop manual shows there's a listed DTC (P1091) for the VVEL relay but
the diagnostics do not show it up. Why not? Further, a VVEL relay failure
is stated in the manual to limit RPM to 3,500. Wrong.
4. That # 1 relay was an on/off Nissan type "M1". Oh so very special ? Niet.
5. Two more weeks without the car again ? On a non-paying warranty?
6. Grab the bull by the horns !

Upshot:
A relay, ex a junk-yard VW (year 1990), was fitted. The 370Z ran perfectly within hours (not weeks),....and still does so.
....The VW relay spec is as follows:
VW/Audi #s 191 937 503 22 204 007 12V 40A Made in Germany by WLO.
Dated 1/90, it is heavily marked "18" for Audi/VW relay box arrays.

Conclusion
"Diagnostics cannot be wrong --cannot be wrong--can never be wrong. etc.:
Nissan claims dept/customers may thus find extreme expense and delays.
Cause of the expense? Nissan Consult3 diagnostics?
.......Now, about that ignored warranty claim !

Lemers · 03-31-2011, 05:30 AM

What was the reason they denied the warranty? Can't be past months (2010). And I pretty sure you havent driven 60k miles in a year. Do you have mods?

fritz · 04-01-2011, 12:11 PM

Invoice states ---verbatim (for grammar) quote:

"Part is under warranty but for reasons computing is not possible was the same claim".

My dealer (original seller) told me to phone a foreign number. I tried and failed so suggested she do it.

I then wrote a registered letter to Nissan. They receipted it in January but have done nothing.

The car is not modified. Each relay gave 2500 Miles approx from new. Total mileage now near 5,000. Car was new in August 2010.

The real reason for my post is that the "Consult3" does not appear to be trustworthy, during, or, much worse, after warranty.

Jordo! · 04-01-2011, 12:39 PM

What the hell?!

Jeez -- glad you at least fixed it.

Thanks for sharing.

Cmike2780 · 04-01-2011, 12:43 PM

Don't just write a letter. Call a Nissan rep. every day if you have to and have them contact the dealership service shop. This should definately be covered under warranty work including diagnostic.

fritz · 04-02-2011, 04:50 PM

Thanks for the good suggestions re the "warranty". The time and aggro are no longer worth it.

The car's just great. Nissan ain't.

...and "Consult3" ain't great either.

I've bought a couple of relays now, thus putting that good 20 years old
VW relay together with a new one in a "spares box" in the car.

The "new" (a quarter the price of the Nissan version) are Hella, "Made in Germany", stated on both the relay and on its yellow packing box !

Hella Relay Part is "4RA 003.530-021"
The bar code is 4 082300 281545

Regards, Fritz.

1slow370 · 04-02-2011, 08:11 PM

if you are going through that many relays you might want to have the vvel actuators, and the vvel control unit check for armature shorts or above normal amp draws that would be loading the relay like that. It is weird that consult3 would report it wrong, the multiple cylinder misfire is thrown all the time when something breaks on this car.

Red__Zed · 04-02-2011, 08:37 PM

That was a really tough read.

Lemers · 04-02-2011, 08:42 PM

Yeah all I got out of it was the Nissan didn't honor their warranty.

fritz · 04-03-2011, 09:25 AM

Hi 1slow370,
Thanks for the good headsup on items ignored on the dealership Consult3 and my own.

"That many relays"? Just two in 5000 miles (but I carry 2 spare now).
Nissan recently recalled 2+million vehicles due to engine stoppage. Why?
Because a relay may fail due to silicone-to-sand impregnation of a different relay.

That's not 370Z but Nissan do have "expensive experience" with relays.

1slow370 · 04-03-2011, 01:39 PM

ok if it's a manufacturer defect thing that would explain it but here in the states at least on this forum we've never seen a single a failure so maybe it's a market thing but they should all be off the same line so?? jury's out on this one as to what the reasoning behind the failures would be maybe just bad luck with parts but i would still do at least an amp check on the motors and one at the main vvel fuse to see if there is an over current condition.

Ron · 04-03-2011, 05:39 PM

so something about a relay and nissan not playing fair? I hope you get everything sorted out!

juld0zer · 10-21-2014, 10:40 AM

my car has Japanese made relays for PWM and VVEL. Neither smelt burnt and both look perfect so i just swapped them around to try resolve my intermittent laggy throttle

1slow370 · 10-21-2014, 12:35 PM

also as a note the vvel relay dtc comes up on the relays trigger circuit, so if the solenoid is being powered it thinks the relay is good even if the contact is fried. The dtc only detects solenoid damage therefor a relay with a fried contact that is not powering the vvel motors will read as bad motors

03-31-2011, 04:45 AM	#1 (permalink)
fritz Base Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Andorre Posts: 90 Drives: 2010 370Z M6 Rep Power: 15	Nissan consult3 diagnostic error? You Pay? Situation #1 (at 2500 miles, 2 months from new): "Car rescue" at dealership. Car starts with metallic noises but there's no accelerator- to-throttles connection. It Idles (warm) at 1200 RPM. Execution: Show customer the diagnostics: DTC P1090 for VVEL ACTR MOT-B1 and a separate DTC P1093 for VVEL ACTR MOT B-2. Also a DTC P0300 for "all cylinders misfire". Customer protests this was a wrong diagnosis. Techs get a good laugh. Estimate is 2weeks (Customer home is 1000 miles away. He changes plans) Customer checks dealership after 11 days. They're "awaiting parts" At 15 days: customer collects car. It is written that it's warranty work but he has to pay. Nissan and original seller duck the warranty absolutely. Part used. One relay. The old part is handed to the customer. Upshot: Customer opens up the dud relay which reveals a normal, simple, "M1" relay. Tested? One time in 2 it does not connect, or disconnects. Confused? Repairer's tech folk are innocent....a place to recommend. Consult3 Customer (unbelieving and desperate) buys one for (but not from) Nissan. It lives in the car, ready for use with his laptop. Situation #2 (2450 miles later) Car suddenly slowed and was nearly rammed by a too close truck. Same old problem with slight metallic noises on starting. Customer's own Consult3 shows the same readouts as in situation # 1 above. 1.Both VVEL ACTR Motors can hardly fail at the same time, surely? 2 The."Multi cyl misfire" DTC, (P0300), is wrong for a glass smooth motor. 3.Shop manual shows there's a listed DTC (P1091) for the VVEL relay but the diagnostics do not show it up. Why not? Further, a VVEL relay failure is stated in the manual to limit RPM to 3,500. Wrong. 4. That # 1 relay was an on/off Nissan type "M1". Oh so very special ? Niet. 5. Two more weeks without the car again ? On a non-paying warranty? 6. Grab the bull by the horns ! Upshot: A relay, ex a junk-yard VW (year 1990), was fitted. The 370Z ran perfectly within hours (not weeks),....and still does so. ....The VW relay spec is as follows: VW/Audi #s 191 937 503 22 204 007 12V 40A Made in Germany by WLO. Dated 1/90, it is heavily marked "18" for Audi/VW relay box arrays. Conclusion "Diagnostics cannot be wrong --cannot be wrong--can never be wrong. etc.: Nissan claims dept/customers may thus find extreme expense and delays. Cause of the expense? Nissan Consult3 diagnostics? .......Now, about that ignored warranty claim !

03-31-2011, 05:30 AM	#2 (permalink)
Lemers A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Izmir, Turkey Posts: 15,371 Drives: 2012 Traverse LTZ Rep Power: 52	What was the reason they denied the warranty? Can't be past months (2010). And I pretty sure you havent driven 60k miles in a year. Do you have mods? __________________ 2010 Black Cherry Touring/Sport/Nav Now - 2012 Travese LTZ until I leave for Turkey

04-01-2011, 12:39 PM	#4 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 417	What the hell?! Jeez -- glad you at least fixed it. Thanks for sharing. __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

04-01-2011, 12:43 PM	#5 (permalink)
Cmike2780 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 5,059 Drives: slowwww Rep Power: 28	Don't just write a letter. Call a Nissan rep. every day if you have to and have them contact the dealership service shop. This should definately be covered under warranty work including diagnostic. __________________ [09][MB][6-Spd MT][Touring][Stillen Gen III][K&N][Borla CBE][Evo-R] [ArchitTEK Photography]

04-02-2011, 08:11 PM	#7 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7250	if you are going through that many relays you might want to have the vvel actuators, and the vvel control unit check for armature shorts or above normal amp draws that would be loading the relay like that. It is weird that consult3 would report it wrong, the multiple cylinder misfire is thrown all the time when something breaks on this car. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

04-01-2011, 12:11 PM	#3 (permalink)
fritz Base Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Andorre Posts: 90 Drives: 2010 370Z M6 Rep Power: 15	Invoice states ---verbatim (for grammar) quote: "Part is under warranty but for reasons computing is not possible was the same claim". My dealer (original seller) told me to phone a foreign number. I tried and failed so suggested she do it. I then wrote a registered letter to Nissan. They receipted it in January but have done nothing. The car is not modified. Each relay gave 2500 Miles approx from new. Total mileage now near 5,000. Car was new in August 2010. The real reason for my post is that the "Consult3" does not appear to be trustworthy, during, or, much worse, after warranty.

04-02-2011, 04:50 PM	#6 (permalink)
fritz Base Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Andorre Posts: 90 Drives: 2010 370Z M6 Rep Power: 15	Thanks for the good suggestions re the "warranty". The time and aggro are no longer worth it. The car's just great. Nissan ain't. ...and "Consult3" ain't great either. I've bought a couple of relays now, thus putting that good 20 years old VW relay together with a new one in a "spares box" in the car. The "new" (a quarter the price of the Nissan version) are Hella, "Made in Germany", stated on both the relay and on its yellow packing box ! Hella Relay Part is "4RA 003.530-021" The bar code is 4 082300 281545 Regards, Fritz.

04-02-2011, 08:37 PM	#8 (permalink)
Red__Zed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: window seat Posts: 28,940 Drives: Mostly on two wheels Rep Power: 119	That was a really tough read. Motionmagic likes this.

04-02-2011, 08:42 PM	#9 (permalink)
Lemers A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Izmir, Turkey Posts: 15,371 Drives: 2012 Traverse LTZ Rep Power: 52	Yeah all I got out of it was the Nissan didn't honor their warranty. __________________ 2010 Black Cherry Touring/Sport/Nav Now - 2012 Travese LTZ until I leave for Turkey

04-03-2011, 09:25 AM	#10 (permalink)
fritz Base Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Andorre Posts: 90 Drives: 2010 370Z M6 Rep Power: 15	Hi 1slow370, Thanks for the good headsup on items ignored on the dealership Consult3 and my own. "That many relays"? Just two in 5000 miles (but I carry 2 spare now). Nissan recently recalled 2+million vehicles due to engine stoppage. Why? Because a relay may fail due to silicone-to-sand impregnation of a different relay. That's not 370Z but Nissan do have "expensive experience" with relays.

04-03-2011, 01:39 PM	#11 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7250	ok if it's a manufacturer defect thing that would explain it but here in the states at least on this forum we've never seen a single a failure so maybe it's a market thing but they should all be off the same line so?? jury's out on this one as to what the reasoning behind the failures would be maybe just bad luck with parts but i would still do at least an amp check on the motors and one at the main vvel fuse to see if there is an over current condition. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

04-03-2011, 05:39 PM	#12 (permalink)
Ron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 3,009 Drives: TT '11 PW Nismo #113 Rep Power: 21	so something about a relay and nissan not playing fair? I hope you get everything sorted out!

10-21-2014, 10:40 AM	#13 (permalink)
juld0zer Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Sydney Posts: 428 Drives: 11 Nissan 370Z MB M6 Rep Power: 138	my car has Japanese made relays for PWM and VVEL. Neither smelt burnt and both look perfect so i just swapped them around to try resolve my intermittent laggy throttle

10-21-2014, 12:35 PM	#14 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7250	also as a note the vvel relay dtc comes up on the relays trigger circuit, so if the solenoid is being powered it thinks the relay is good even if the contact is fried. The dtc only detects solenoid damage therefor a relay with a fried contact that is not powering the vvel motors will read as bad motors jae35 likes this. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

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