Help me with my abysmal ignorance

Inspector71 · 03-04-2011, 01:05 PM

A few weeks ago I posted about the difference that would be made by adding a different induction air filter system, headers, exhaust and so forth to my 2009 Z. I was told it would generate more horsepower but would not change my 0 to 60 times or my top speed. If that is the case, what would be the value of these mods or am I missing something. I apologize up front for my ignorance. I have several old Mopars and all the mods I did on them made a difference for both time to 60 and top speed.

theDreamer · 03-04-2011, 01:08 PM

Top speed with today's cars is more about aerodynamics and power. Power will only get you so far, also the Z has a limiter on it set to 155 from factory.
0-60 time might change if performance upgrades, but that will be more of a driver adjustment, road conditions, etc.

6MT · 03-04-2011, 01:10 PM

..... great thread title!!!!!

Inspector71 · 03-07-2011, 08:59 AM

I wanted everyone to know up front I don't know what I'm talking about and I have this feeling I am missing something. I read up on all the upgrades, induction, exhaust, and then was told by some forum members it would not change the top speed or 0 to 60 times for the reasons limited. Based on that, I have questions about whether or not it is worth it to spend that much money. Again, I am talking about a street driven, not raced car, I drive to work almost every day.

Billy02987 · 03-07-2011, 10:42 AM

I simply did CBE, CAI, test pipes, and osiris tune and the difference was noticable. I dont track my car so I couldn't tell you track times but I could easily feel the gains. By doing the Osiris tune you eliminate the factory rev limiter as well as also increasing your RPMs.

Econ · 03-07-2011, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inspector71

A few weeks ago I posted about the difference that would be made by adding a different induction air filter system, headers, exhaust and so forth to my 2009 Z. I was told it would generate more horsepower but would not change my 0 to 60 times or my top speed. If that is the case, what would be the value of these mods or am I missing something. I apologize up front for my ignorance. I have several old Mopars and all the mods I did on them made a difference for both time to 60 and top speed.

youre not the only one, I too have wondered the real life gains of spending $3k+ on bolt-ons.

If there is no noticable 0-60/60-120 gains, then spending $600 for a bolt on is not worth seeing +10hp on a dyno imo

Cmike2780 · 03-07-2011, 01:47 PM

The speed limiter can be removed. The gains are harder to come by the faster you go. Of course the add ons will make your car faster. Just ask any of the member that take their car to the strip. The thing is, the faster you want to go, the amount of hp you need increases exponentially. Top speed is also limited by drag. A 332hp truck with the same weight as a 332hp car is not going to have the same top speed for instance. 0-60 is not as critical in measuring gains as much as quarter mile times and trap speeds.

Jordo! · 03-07-2011, 06:00 PM

Are you going for the land speed record?

Of course your car will have faster 0-60, 60 ft, and 1/4 mile times with more power.

Best bangs for the buck are:

1. K&N panel filters plus smoother intake tubes (cobb or HPS).

2. ebay test pipes (get ones with extra long defoulers to minimize chance of CEL; can also cram steel wool in bung to filter exhaust gasses further)

3. A better flowing Y-pipe, or pick up a used Nismo cat back exhaust (OEM or or S-tune version).

4. Osirus uprev tune to bring it all together.

That will bring to around or just over 300 whp on a dynojet (typically begining around 273 +/-5 ), and should cost you under or around $1500 - 2000 in total.

Happy modding

BLM · 03-07-2011, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Are you going for the land speed record?

Of course your car will have faster 0-60, 60 ft, and 1/4 mile times with more power.

Best bangs for the buck are:

1. K&N panel filters plus smoother intake tubes (cobb or HPS).

2. ebay test pipes (get ones with extra long defoulers to minimize chance of CEL; can also cram steel wool in bung to filter exhaust gasses further)

3. A better flowing Y-pipe, or pick up a used Nismo cat back exhaust (OEM or or S-tune version).

4. Osirus uprev tune to bring it all together.

That will bring to around or just over 300 whp on a dynojet (typically begining around 273 +/-5 ), and should cost you under or around $1500 - 2000 in total.

Happy modding

Not trying to hi-jack but the ARK website has vids of their CBE on a dyno producing 302 whp alone. There's no baseline run, but most 370's seem to be dyno-ing around 279 stock on dynojets (of course conditions and corrective factors play a role). They're working on getting before and after's, as 23 whp from an exhaust seems like a lot.

Cmike2780 · 03-07-2011, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLM

Not trying to hi-jack but the ARK website has vids of their CBE on a dyno producing 302 whp alone. There's no baseline run, but most 370's seem to be dyno-ing around 279 stock on dynojets (of course conditions and corrective factors play a role). They're working on getting before and after's, as 23 whp from an exhaust seems like a lot.

That seems high as others are claiming around 18. Although a lot of conditions do factor in like you said.

Jordo! · 03-07-2011, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLM

Not trying to hi-jack but the ARK website has vids of their CBE on a dyno producing 302 whp alone. There's no baseline run, but most 370's seem to be dyno-ing around 279 stock on dynojets (of course conditions and corrective factors play a role). They're working on getting before and after's, as 23 whp from an exhaust seems like a lot.

That's nice.

Do independnet dynos confirm that? Are they using SAE correction (conservative) or STD correction (overcompensates for NA).

Anyway, with no baseline run, you cannot determine anything about the % improvement from their exhaust, so a value of 302 is meaningless.

I'm amassing a database of 370Z and G37 bone stock and modified dynos, so I know what I'm talking about. Moreover, I am making reference to SAE corrected values, not happy overinflated STD ones or randomly high/low uncorrected estimates.

I'm a data driven, "bang-for-the-buck" kind of guy, so those are the recommendations I make to anyone who cares to listen.

Of course, people are free to base their decisions on whatever criteria they want and people can spend their money however they choose.

I'm not selling anything, so it's no biggy to me -- I'm just looking out for other car guys who may not have the wherewithal to consider all these factors before laying down their hard earned cash for stuff that may or may not live up to expectations.

P.S.
273 +/- 5 = as high as 278, 1 whp less than you noted. In other words, that is close to the range I have found, albeit on the higher side. I have also seen multiple baselines closer to 268; they tend to dyno higher after accumulating 2-5K on the motor, most likley due to continued wear-in.

BLM · 03-07-2011, 08:15 PM

Well all will surely appreciate the work you put in to amassing such a database. It will certainly benefit us all and hopefully foster competition and competitive pricing amongst vendors. And I'm well aware that the 302 is meaningless without a baseline and the value itself is contingent upon corrective factors. But thank you for pointing that out to those who may not know how many variables go into dyno results. I'm also assuming that the major factor in exhaust power output will be the diameter of the piping and the presence/absence of restrictive elements such as curvature of the piping itself and presence/absence of catalytic converters. I think for most of us the sound and looks play a greater role in deciding if and what brand of aftermarket exhaust to purchase, as the performance increases are likely to be very similar.

PS thanks to your research you have inspired me to save the $300 and go with hoses and K&N drop-ins instead of the Stillen CAI.

Jordo! · 03-07-2011, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLM

Well all will surely appreciate the work you put in to amassing such a database. It will certainly benefit us all and hopefully foster competition and competitive pricing amongst vendors. And I'm well aware that the 302 is meaningless without a baseline and the value itself is contingent upon corrective factors. But thank you for pointing that out to those who may not know how many variables go into dyno results. I'm also assuming that the major factor in exhaust power output will be the diameter of the piping and the presence/absence of restrictive elements such as curvature of the piping itself and presence/absence of catalytic converters. I think for most of us the sound and looks play a greater role in deciding if and what brand of aftermarket exhaust to purchase, as the performance increases are likely to be very similar.

PS thanks to your research you have inspired me to save the $300 and go with hoses and K&N drop-ins instead of the Stillen CAI.

Hopefully more people will send me drf files so I can derive better estimates

This is a tentative conclusion, but the biggest restriction (other than the cats) appears to be the OEM Y pipe, which necks down to a smaller diameter than the rest of the exhaust, I believe.

Inspector71 · 03-08-2011, 11:50 AM

Wow, the information here confirms my ignorance. All I wanted was to maximize the performance potential of the car as a daily driver, have fun doing it, and, okay, defend the Nissan brand if a Cayman decided to toy with me. I might be over the hill, but I'm not under it yet.

BLM · 03-08-2011, 12:46 PM

As stated above, hps/cobb intake hoses, K&N drop-in filters, cat-back exhaust, hi flow cat/test pipe +/- an ecu tune to raise rev limiter and get a few more hp out of the breathing mods is IMO the way to go. The ecu tune certainly isn't needed, but it's nice to have to maximize the mods. Now if you chose to add Long tube headers to that list (this isn't so popular due to cost of both the headers themselves and the installation cost, but if you're an N/A purist, I say headers are a must have - though they are in no way a bang for your buck mod) an ecu tune would be needed as they cause the car to run rich and lose power and torque.

03-04-2011, 01:05 PM	#1 (permalink)
Inspector71 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Lee's Summit Missouri Posts: 337 Drives: 2015 Pearl White Z Rep Power: 15	Help me with my abysmal ignorance A few weeks ago I posted about the difference that would be made by adding a different induction air filter system, headers, exhaust and so forth to my 2009 Z. I was told it would generate more horsepower but would not change my 0 to 60 times or my top speed. If that is the case, what would be the value of these mods or am I missing something. I apologize up front for my ignorance. I have several old Mopars and all the mods I did on them made a difference for both time to 60 and top speed.

03-04-2011, 01:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4210	Top speed with today's cars is more about aerodynamics and power. Power will only get you so far, also the Z has a limiter on it set to 155 from factory. 0-60 time might change if performance upgrades, but that will be more of a driver adjustment, road conditions, etc. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

03-04-2011, 01:10 PM	#3 (permalink)
6MT A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: ITU Zone 2 Posts: 22,459 Drives: Reliant Robin Rep Power: 1789	..... great thread title!!!!! __________________ Andrew 2009 370Z Sport/Touring 6MT sold 2013 Honda Civic Si coupe D/D

03-07-2011, 08:59 AM	#4 (permalink)
Inspector71 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Lee's Summit Missouri Posts: 337 Drives: 2015 Pearl White Z Rep Power: 15	Thanks for the answers I wanted everyone to know up front I don't know what I'm talking about and I have this feeling I am missing something. I read up on all the upgrades, induction, exhaust, and then was told by some forum members it would not change the top speed or 0 to 60 times for the reasons limited. Based on that, I have questions about whether or not it is worth it to spend that much money. Again, I am talking about a street driven, not raced car, I drive to work almost every day.

03-07-2011, 10:42 AM	#5 (permalink)
Billy02987 Track Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: South FL Posts: 975 Drives: 2010 GT-R Rep Power: 18	I simply did CBE, CAI, test pipes, and osiris tune and the difference was noticable. I dont track my car so I couldn't tell you track times but I could easily feel the gains. By doing the Osiris tune you eliminate the factory rev limiter as well as also increasing your RPMs. __________________ 2010 GT-R 2009 GTM TT 370Z-SOLD

03-07-2011, 01:47 PM	#7 (permalink)
Cmike2780 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 5,059 Drives: slowwww Rep Power: 28	The speed limiter can be removed. The gains are harder to come by the faster you go. Of course the add ons will make your car faster. Just ask any of the member that take their car to the strip. The thing is, the faster you want to go, the amount of hp you need increases exponentially. Top speed is also limited by drag. A 332hp truck with the same weight as a 332hp car is not going to have the same top speed for instance. 0-60 is not as critical in measuring gains as much as quarter mile times and trap speeds. __________________ [09][MB][6-Spd MT][Touring][Stillen Gen III][K&N][Borla CBE][Evo-R] [ArchitTEK Photography]

03-07-2011, 06:00 PM	#8 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 417	Are you going for the land speed record? Of course your car will have faster 0-60, 60 ft, and 1/4 mile times with more power. Best bangs for the buck are: 1. K&N panel filters plus smoother intake tubes (cobb or HPS). 2. ebay test pipes (get ones with extra long defoulers to minimize chance of CEL; can also cram steel wool in bung to filter exhaust gasses further) 3. A better flowing Y-pipe, or pick up a used Nismo cat back exhaust (OEM or or S-tune version). 4. Osirus uprev tune to bring it all together. That will bring to around or just over 300 whp on a dynojet (typically begining around 273 +/-5 ), and should cost you under or around $1500 - 2000 in total. Happy modding __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

03-07-2011, 08:15 PM	#12 (permalink)
BLM Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NJ Posts: 342 Drives: 2011 Silver M6 sport Rep Power: 14	Well all will surely appreciate the work you put in to amassing such a database. It will certainly benefit us all and hopefully foster competition and competitive pricing amongst vendors. And I'm well aware that the 302 is meaningless without a baseline and the value itself is contingent upon corrective factors. But thank you for pointing that out to those who may not know how many variables go into dyno results. I'm also assuming that the major factor in exhaust power output will be the diameter of the piping and the presence/absence of restrictive elements such as curvature of the piping itself and presence/absence of catalytic converters. I think for most of us the sound and looks play a greater role in deciding if and what brand of aftermarket exhaust to purchase, as the performance increases are likely to be very similar. PS thanks to your research you have inspired me to save the $300 and go with hoses and K&N drop-ins instead of the Stillen CAI. __________________ K&N // GTM // BERK Last edited by BLM; 03-07-2011 at 08:23 PM.

03-08-2011, 11:50 AM	#14 (permalink)
Inspector71 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Lee's Summit Missouri Posts: 337 Drives: 2015 Pearl White Z Rep Power: 15	Thanks to all Wow, the information here confirms my ignorance. All I wanted was to maximize the performance potential of the car as a daily driver, have fun doing it, and, okay, defend the Nissan brand if a Cayman decided to toy with me. I might be over the hill, but I'm not under it yet.

03-08-2011, 12:46 PM	#15 (permalink)
BLM Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NJ Posts: 342 Drives: 2011 Silver M6 sport Rep Power: 14	As stated above, hps/cobb intake hoses, K&N drop-in filters, cat-back exhaust, hi flow cat/test pipe +/- an ecu tune to raise rev limiter and get a few more hp out of the breathing mods is IMO the way to go. The ecu tune certainly isn't needed, but it's nice to have to maximize the mods. Now if you chose to add Long tube headers to that list (this isn't so popular due to cost of both the headers themselves and the installation cost, but if you're an N/A purist, I say headers are a must have - though they are in no way a bang for your buck mod) an ecu tune would be needed as they cause the car to run rich and lose power and torque. __________________ K&N // GTM // BERK