READ THIS IF you use Redline oil and Puralator

FricFrac · 03-22-2011, 07:06 PM

It's actually difficult to find oils that have enough ZDDP and redline isn't one of them. Valvoline VR1 is one of the only oils left that has any significant ammount of ZDDP and a version of Mobil 1. Ironically its the oil your mechanic should be running in his engine.

================================================== ========
ZDDP

Older engines with mechanical valve tappets like the ZCar L-series engines and V8s with flat tappets (not roller cams) were designed for motor oil which contains a moderate amount of zinc and phosphorus known as ZDDP (zinc diaklydithiophosphate). ZDDP is considered a miracle lubricant for engines and has been used for about 60 years in motor oil and greases worldwide. Modern engines weren't designed to need ZDDP so the modern-day automotive world doesn't even speak of it. But for vintage car and hot-rod owners the diminishing levels ZDDP in oil is a real issue because it's required to lubricate the cam lobes and prevent wear across the rocker arm surfaces.

WHY IT'S VANISHING IN OIL
While zinc is not directly harmful to the environment, if its burned due to ring blowby it ruins your catalytic converter. So over last decade the EPA has pressured the oil companies to reduce the percentage of ZDDP in their passenger car oils. This extends the life of converters...which in turn reduces total car emissions. Pressure from the construction industry allowed some diesel oils like Rotella T made by Shell to use higher levels of ZDDP which they claim is needed on heavy equipment. However, I don't like the idea of using bulldozer oil in my 7,000 rpm L28, even if it does have more zinc. Starting in 2007 construction equipment had tighter emissions standards so zinc in Rotella is likely to fade if not greatly diminished already.

Luckily there is still one company with the guts to market a higher ZDDP oil for passenger cars, in a viscosity that doesn't reduce horsepower: Valvoline. Their VR1 10W-30 racing oil is a quality SH grade oil which simply means the ZDDP hasn't been removed to qualify as a SL or SM grade. Valvoline's MSDS sheet lists it at 1.3% phosphorus/zinc, 1% sulfated ash and 2.5% calcium...which makes for a nice lube cocktail. The new SM grade oils all have about .08% ZDDP to conform to EPA standards while 2% and higher ZDDP is considered the level to use in an older motor. Valvoline states it exceeds SM levels of protection...so this is now my oil of choice, even over a synthetic. Mobil 1 is available in a high ZDDP synthetic but I find it too expensive for my tastes.

=Taken from http://datsunzgarage.com/engine/index.htm=

================================================== ========

As for the filter your mechanic was probably talking about the anti-backflow valve. The Purelator has been taken apart and has been highly rated by several people who have disassembled to see what the filter really looks like. The filtering area is high as is the quality of the build including the use of a silicone seal for the valve. It's comparable to a Wix which is also commonly know as an excellent filter as well.

Oil filter comparisons

Oil Filters Revealed - MiniMopar Resources

Also check out Bob is the Oil Guy. There is a lot of science on there and you can spend literally hours reading and researching on there - it's very good.

Your mechanic is a friend of yours. Do some research and come to your own conclusion about how accurate his information is.

wdkwang · 03-23-2011, 04:08 AM

wow good stuff. repped

Jordo! · 03-23-2011, 05:40 AM

Cats? Can't kill what isn't there

So... the zinc additives are better for older motors only?

ChrisSlicks · 03-23-2011, 07:29 AM

@wdkwang - So he told you that Walmart grade Mobil1 was better than Redline 5W30? Hmmm, time to find a new mechanic. Sure M1 is good enough in most cases, but it thins out a little too much at elevated temps for my liking.

As for the filters, the Pure1 filter is very well constructed, and is one of the best filters for the money. Cut one open and take a look! The K&N and the M1 Extended Performance filters are two other good options for street driven cars given their solid construction and heavy duty filtration layers, compare the weight of these to any other filter.

An easy way to increase your filtration surface area is to buy the GT-R spec filters, these filters are exactly the same but slightly longer.

spearfish25 · 03-23-2011, 08:43 AM

I heard Royal Purple oil will wear out your rear sway bar faster. I'm sticking with Redline.

Lug · 03-23-2011, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

I heard Royal Purple oil will wear out your rear sway bar faster. I'm sticking with Redline.

Fine, if you want your cat to die, probably your dog as well, hater.

GZ3 · 03-23-2011, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

I think your mechanic doesn't know what he's talking about or wanted to sell you something else. I use Redline 5w30 and I'm going to be doing an oil change with ALL redline fluids this weekend. Also, I use purolator filters

+1

love this oil and filter

wdkwang · 03-23-2011, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

I heard Royal Purple oil will wear out your rear sway bar faster. I'm sticking with Redline.

but seriously,
i'll done my own hw since i made the thread some weeks ago and found that redline and the pure one filter is fine for the z.
my mechanic has since then changed his oil to royal purple after i linked him this pdf file that was on this forum. i'll be switching out to royal purple as well once i'm done wit the box of redline i ordered.

ChrisSlicks · 03-23-2011, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdkwang

i'll done my own hw since i made the thread some weeks ago and found that redline and the pure one filter is fine for the z.
my mechanic has since then changed his oil to royal purple after i linked him this pdf file that was on this forum. i'll be switching out to royal purple as well once i'm done wit the box of redline i ordered.

Royal purple will rape your sister and murder your mother - use with caution.

FricFrac · 03-24-2011, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

Royal purple will rape your sister and murder your mother - use with caution.

...and ironically will not be using lube of any sort......

FricFrac · 03-24-2011, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Cats? Can't kill what isn't there

So... the zinc additives are better for older motors only?

Zinc is a lubrication enhancer and prevents wear. All engines can benefit from it. Newer engines have parts that tend to optimize the way oil is used as a lubricant by having the part ride on a layer of oil without actually touching like your crank and bearings. With the old cam lobe lifters and lash pads the oil tends to be wiped off so additives such as ZDDP help protect the metal surfaces. Problem is the only one piece of correct info from the mechanic is that it is destructive to your catalytiic converters. It builds a coating on the platinum that prevents it from working effectively as a polution controling device. I will not affect the HP peformance of the cat which is environmentally frustrating but not performance affecting.

zmyride · 03-26-2011, 03:59 PM

Honestly I'm sticking with Mobil 1.

I did tons of research and found out that Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche, Corvette put M1 on all their cars. A bunch of other performance cars too. I called the local dealerships and asked the service managers, they all said M1.

Redline is cool, but it's no better than M1. Redlines marketing team's done a good job of marketing their oil as premium oil, but auto manufacturers don't buy it.

If you talk to hardcore Redline believers, they're all going to swear by Redline no matter what. If someone already firmly believes in Redline, they will find flaws in M1 so they can prove that Redline is better. So i'm not here to convince anybody to switch to M1.

Redline is more expensive, but it is no better than M1. All the people I've talked to, they all said the same thing, you can't go wrong with M1.

I'm going to stick with M1. I can't argue with what auto manufacturers suggest.

IDZRVIT · 03-27-2011, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zmyride

Honestly I'm sticking with Mobil 1.

I did tons of research and found out that Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche, Corvette put M1 on all their cars. A bunch of other performance cars too. I called the local dealerships and asked the service managers, they all said M1.

Redline is cool, but it's no better than M1. Redlines marketing team's done a good job of marketing their oil as premium oil, but auto manufacturers don't buy it.

If you talk to hardcore Redline believers, they're all going to swear by Redline no matter what. If someone already firmly believes in Redline, they will find flaws in M1 so they can prove that Redline is better. So i'm not here to convince anybody to switch to M1.

Redline is more expensive, but it is no better than M1. All the people I've talked to, they all said the same thing, you can't go wrong with M1.

I'm going to stick with M1. I can't argue with what auto manufacturers suggest.

Yeah, but the engineers for those manufacturer's have no clue about what oil to specify so they went with the lowest bidder.

FricFrac · 03-28-2011, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zmyride

Honestly I'm sticking with Mobil 1.

I did tons of research and found out that Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche, Corvette put M1 on all their cars. A bunch of other performance cars too. I called the local dealerships and asked the service managers, they all said M1.

Redline is cool, but it's no better than M1. Redlines marketing team's done a good job of marketing their oil as premium oil, but auto manufacturers don't buy it.

If you talk to hardcore Redline believers, they're all going to swear by Redline no matter what. If someone already firmly believes in Redline, they will find flaws in M1 so they can prove that Redline is better. So i'm not here to convince anybody to switch to M1.

Redline is more expensive, but it is no better than M1. All the people I've talked to, they all said the same thing, you can't go wrong with M1.

I'm going to stick with M1. I can't argue with what auto manufacturers suggest.

Lol - yes Mobil 1 is a good oil but putting it in Lambos, etc is a gigantic part of the marketing effort! Your example is the exact reason Mobil sells the oil to these guys at a hugely reduced cost because they make the profit from people buying it at retail prices because it's used in a Corvette....

Its as simple as this - change your oil and filter regularly with an approved oil and you've got 95% of your bases covered.... if you want to find out about the other 5% you need to research the chemical and physical properties as well as the conditions the oil is used in - not what car uses it..... that's not research that's being a consumer lead by advertisement....

dawudih · 04-02-2011, 11:22 PM

Pure 1 oil filter IS missing the bypass valve, take one apart if you don't beleive it (it's a little themostatic spring I think).
Elevated ZDDC in RedLine oil does burn up (eventually) the cat; but it also provides the extra protection that later oils (1998'ish - present) do not so it's worth it to me...

03-22-2011, 07:06 PM	#31 (permalink)
FricFrac A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Victoria, BC Posts: 1,481 Drives: 370Z 300ZX 280ZX 240 Rep Power: 229	It's actually difficult to find oils that have enough ZDDP and redline isn't one of them. Valvoline VR1 is one of the only oils left that has any significant ammount of ZDDP and a version of Mobil 1. Ironically its the oil your mechanic should be running in his engine. ================================================== ======== ZDDP Older engines with mechanical valve tappets like the ZCar L-series engines and V8s with flat tappets (not roller cams) were designed for motor oil which contains a moderate amount of zinc and phosphorus known as ZDDP (zinc diaklydithiophosphate). ZDDP is considered a miracle lubricant for engines and has been used for about 60 years in motor oil and greases worldwide. Modern engines weren't designed to need ZDDP so the modern-day automotive world doesn't even speak of it. But for vintage car and hot-rod owners the diminishing levels ZDDP in oil is a real issue because it's required to lubricate the cam lobes and prevent wear across the rocker arm surfaces. WHY IT'S VANISHING IN OIL While zinc is not directly harmful to the environment, if its burned due to ring blowby it ruins your catalytic converter. So over last decade the EPA has pressured the oil companies to reduce the percentage of ZDDP in their passenger car oils. This extends the life of converters...which in turn reduces total car emissions. Pressure from the construction industry allowed some diesel oils like Rotella T made by Shell to use higher levels of ZDDP which they claim is needed on heavy equipment. However, I don't like the idea of using bulldozer oil in my 7,000 rpm L28, even if it does have more zinc. Starting in 2007 construction equipment had tighter emissions standards so zinc in Rotella is likely to fade if not greatly diminished already. Luckily there is still one company with the guts to market a higher ZDDP oil for passenger cars, in a viscosity that doesn't reduce horsepower: Valvoline. Their VR1 10W-30 racing oil is a quality SH grade oil which simply means the ZDDP hasn't been removed to qualify as a SL or SM grade. Valvoline's MSDS sheet lists it at 1.3% phosphorus/zinc, 1% sulfated ash and 2.5% calcium...which makes for a nice lube cocktail. The new SM grade oils all have about .08% ZDDP to conform to EPA standards while 2% and higher ZDDP is considered the level to use in an older motor. Valvoline states it exceeds SM levels of protection...so this is now my oil of choice, even over a synthetic. Mobil 1 is available in a high ZDDP synthetic but I find it too expensive for my tastes. =Taken from http://datsunzgarage.com/engine/index.htm= ================================================== ======== As for the filter your mechanic was probably talking about the anti-backflow valve. The Purelator has been taken apart and has been highly rated by several people who have disassembled to see what the filter really looks like. The filtering area is high as is the quality of the build including the use of a silicone seal for the valve. It's comparable to a Wix which is also commonly know as an excellent filter as well. Oil filter comparisons Oil Filters Revealed - MiniMopar Resources Also check out Bob is the Oil Guy. There is a lot of science on there and you can spend literally hours reading and researching on there - it's very good. Your mechanic is a friend of yours. Do some research and come to your own conclusion about how accurate his information is. __________________ '09 370Z - '93 300ZX Vert - '83 280ZX - '83 280ZXT -'81 280ZXT stroker - '72 240Z - Stillen CBE, HFC, G3, Grounding Kit, Sways // Swift Spring // H&R 15mm // 5% Tint // Clear Bra //

03-23-2011, 04:08 AM	#32 (permalink)
wdkwang Track Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: N/A Posts: 899 Drives: slidewayz Rep Power: 21	wow good stuff. repped __________________ Powerhouse Amuse \| K&N Typhoon Intakes \| MotorDyne ART Pipes \| Borla Catback Exhaust \| B&M Short Shifter \| Intake Ducts \| Ichiba 25mm F/R Spacers \| Carbon Fiber Interior Vinyl Wrap \| Tints \| 10000k HIDs \| Vtak, yo!

03-23-2011, 05:40 AM	#33 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 419	Cats? Can't kill what isn't there So... the zinc additives are better for older motors only? __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

03-23-2011, 07:29 AM	#34 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 654	@wdkwang - So he told you that Walmart grade Mobil1 was better than Redline 5W30? Hmmm, time to find a new mechanic. Sure M1 is good enough in most cases, but it thins out a little too much at elevated temps for my liking. As for the filters, the Pure1 filter is very well constructed, and is one of the best filters for the money. Cut one open and take a look! The K&N and the M1 Extended Performance filters are two other good options for street driven cars given their solid construction and heavy duty filtration layers, compare the weight of these to any other filter. An easy way to increase your filtration surface area is to buy the GT-R spec filters, these filters are exactly the same but slightly longer. __________________ Hotchkis ARB \| Stillen CAI \| Art Pipes \| Berk CBE \| Stillen AP Racing Brakes \| AE Performance Oil Cooler \| BC Racing ER Coilovers \| Doran Control Arms

03-23-2011, 08:43 AM	#35 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1857	I heard Royal Purple oil will wear out your rear sway bar faster. I'm sticking with Redline. __________________ 2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

03-26-2011, 03:59 PM	#42 (permalink)
zmyride Track Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 631 Drives: 10 Black Sports 7AT Rep Power: 17	Honestly I'm sticking with Mobil 1. I did tons of research and found out that Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche, Corvette put M1 on all their cars. A bunch of other performance cars too. I called the local dealerships and asked the service managers, they all said M1. Redline is cool, but it's no better than M1. Redlines marketing team's done a good job of marketing their oil as premium oil, but auto manufacturers don't buy it. If you talk to hardcore Redline believers, they're all going to swear by Redline no matter what. If someone already firmly believes in Redline, they will find flaws in M1 so they can prove that Redline is better. So i'm not here to convince anybody to switch to M1. Redline is more expensive, but it is no better than M1. All the people I've talked to, they all said the same thing, you can't go wrong with M1. I'm going to stick with M1. I can't argue with what auto manufacturers suggest.

04-02-2011, 11:22 PM	#45 (permalink)
dawudih Base Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Katy, TX Age: 51 Posts: 93 Drives: 2011 370z auto Rep Power: 15	Pure 1 oil filter IS missing the bypass valve, take one apart if you don't beleive it (it's a little themostatic spring I think). Elevated ZDDC in RedLine oil does burn up (eventually) the cat; but it also provides the extra protection that later oils (1998'ish - present) do not so it's worth it to me...

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