But, how do you explain the following posts? And there is another somewhere on the forum where the owner was simply in stop and go traffic and had to pullover. Also, since a 370Z owner can move to another state where then they would start developing overheating problems. And a bigger question: Would you be at ease letting your wife drive long distances—alone, or with an elderly passenger—knowing there's a potential overheating issue?

I am not a 370Z owner yet, but I emailed Nissan about this. I just get a generic reply from them.

I like the car, but I don't want to buy a car knowing there's high oil temp issue in TEXAS. It's gonna be hot here in summer! If I have to pull over for stop and go traffic in a sports car, it's totally unacceptable!

The inherant misrepresentation in providing a cooled car to car and driver
 

There appears to be an inherent misrepresentation by Nissan in making a factory oil cooler equipped car available to Car and Driver. As shown in the Car and Driver 370Z At-A-Glance Test Results .pdf posted on this site--http://www.the370z.com/images/370zfo...san%20370Z.pdf --the car supplied by Nissan for the test had both oil and differential coolers listed as a factory “options” for $500. estimated each. Nissan had to know that consumers would use the information derived from the test in making their decision as to whether to purchase the car. If Nissan told Car and Driver that the coolers were available options, knowing that it would be communicated to potential buyers, and that the availability of the coolers or the performance of the cars with coolers was a material fact in the purchasing decision, they could very well be liable for “fraud in the inducement’. The remedies for a “fraud in the inducement” could include rescission of the purchase—i.e. they would need to take the car back and refund all of the sale price. I believe that a legal action for rescission on behalf of all of the purchasers to date who had experienced oil temperature problems because they did not have, and could not acquire, the coolers could be a very powerful inducement to Nissan to do the right thing.

I'll be sure to send corporate a copy of the bill of sale for my 370Z replacement, Cayman S, which doesn't need a cooler. I'll also let them know that I cancelled my Nismo order.

I have to admit that I did have fun with the Z. It put a smile on my face every morning in the garage. The Nismo might have induced an even bigger one.

Alan, I think you're on to something.

I love this car but it has some critical flaws, between the overheating and the psychotic ABS system I'm beginning to think I made a big mistake with this car. I should have bought a used Cayman.

Sometimes the cheapest upgrade is the higher cost one the first time around.

Guys, fyi, in case anyone missed it - Alan is serious... he's leaving his 370z behind... we'll miss you on the board, be sure to update occasionally on how your cayman treats you... if anything like my old boxster s, you'll def have a blast!

Shame we are losing people already, but I totally understand.

Well, let me chime in:

Today:

Left West L.A. for Agoura at 3:15 p.m. (i.e., normal 405/101 traffic).
Driving mode: normal to very occasional 4K RPM to pass slow drivers
A/C on set at 76 degrees (auto)
Outside temp per the computer: 100 degrees

My oil temp: 260 degrees :eek::eek:

I will be calling the dealer tomorrow.



If this car turns into a lemon, I just want my money back. I would definitely not recommend this car for spirited driving, especially for track purposes (though I do not do track). Thank God I did not sell the Porsches.

At this rate, I will see many 370z stalled on the road in TX. I seriously think I may have to look for another car as alternative.....

Well, we'll have to see how this all plays out. There are a lot of factors that go into this, and it's hard for me to trust the exact conditions under which other cars are reaching the stated temps based on a post here (no offense to other oil temp reporters intended). I'm mostly basing my ever-evolving opinion of this issue on my own experiences.

It takes me a fair amount of effort to hit 250, I haven't even done so in a while. The kind of driving I do to reach 250-ish on a public road, while it can be done without technically violating any laws, is well outside the usual casual driving experience. When I blend in with traffic and drive reasonably normally, depending on the weather I tend to stabilize somewhere around 210-225, with 10-15 degree spikes up in temp if I mess around a bit like any person driving a sporty car occasionally would.

Then again, I still haven't gotten a good week of truly hotter temps to test in around here, the weather has been pretty mild relatively speaking. I still want a cooler regardless because I'm not a normal driver, and even if this issue turns out as best as it possibly can, I know it's going to affect me regularly in the summer. I'm not, however, yet convinced that the sky is falling and that this is a critical design flaw worthy of a recall.

GG nissan. I will make sure to let them know that I was supposed to have made the purchase 4 months ago but held off due to this oil problem and now most likely won't be purchasing AT ALL. I will tell ALL my friends, coworkers, family, etc about this car and tell them to STAY AWAY AT ALL COSTS. I have a LOT of people who turn to me for car advice too so this is def not good for nissan.

I really did want to upgrade from my s2k. But whenever i turn back, the s2k never fails to deliver. I drive the living PISS out of it every second, do massive track events, burnouts, auto x, and the thing laughs it off and wants more. Not a single plastic clip has broken and i park it under 100 degrees of direct sunlight everyday for the past 3 years. All i do is change my oil, which btw does not even burn a single drop of. I know the nissan is a much higher performing car and I was very excited....but wow nissan, first with the 350 and now this.....pathetic.

That's because you have an AT car. Most or all of the evidence points to the 7AT cars not having the overheating problem nearly as bad as the MT cars. My buddy here on base has a 7AT and he cruises at 200*F and rarely hits 220 even with hard driving. My bottom oil temp is 220 and I go up from there to 250 before I pull over for fear of melting the engine.

7ATs do not seem to have the overheating problem nearly as bad. So because you have a 7AT without an overheating problem does not invalidate the experiences of everyone else with MTs who are overheating.

What is the correlation between AT running cooler than MT?

Is it because on average, the shifts tend to be at a lower engine speed with AT vs. MT?

Or does the AT model have some additional cooling capabilities built in?

High oil temps with primarily the MT is a pretty significant data point.

Very concerned and will wait to buy as well
 

I have been on the fence between a 370 and a Vette. I have held off with this over heating issue for fear of getting a lemon. I am still in a holding pattern but if Nissan does not step up then I will not be purchasing the 370Z and will buy the Vette. I know the future of GM is in doubt however, the engine and tranny of the Vettes are sound and there will always be someone to work on the Vette. Again, I like the drive of the 370 but can't take the chance of a short lived engine or of my constant concern of what might happen. Will monitor the situation for a short while but if this is not resolved soon, I will not purchase the 370Z. For me, it is not about the money with this car or that but what is the most fun to drive.

I'm not sure that constraining the temps to the MTs is an accurate assumption. My 6MT has only hit 245 once and that was after spirited driving followed by gridlock traffic for an hour on an 80F day. Otherwise, we've had 70F weather and my temp hasn't gone above 220 even with aggressive driving. As someone (semtex or wstar) said earlier, the temps seem to be settling down a bit as the engine is breaking in. Perhaps initial engine friction is gradually being reduced with the added engine hours. I also did my first oil change with Nissan Ester Oil at 1300 mi. I'm at 1500 now.

here's the data on 6mt v 7at oil overheating
http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-g...mp-survey.html

If there's any difference between 6MT and 7AT in this regard, it pretty much has to come down to one of a few things:

1) If the 7AT's fluid is cooled by the radiator (there are hard lines plumbed straight into the radiator from the transmission, IIRC, but I'll have to go look again or check the svc manual), this may have some sort of indirect effect on the overall cooling efficiency of the car, in some way that I can't imagine right now. Edit: confirmed this in the svc manual, TM.pdf Pg 295, we do have transmission fluid lines running to the radiator on the 7AT

2) It could be shifting behavior. Not user shifting behavior, but what Travis was describing earlier: the 7AT rarely if ever over-revs between gears on upshifts. You click and the revs snap down instantly. 6MT guys are seeing the revs spike a bit before dropping. Given that (as Travis noted, and I agree) the rise in oil temp seems to be affected exponentially by a rise in RPM, this extra time at higher RPMs near the top of the range could be having more effect than you'd expect.

3) User behavior, meaning that basically 7AT drivers drive like grandmas relative to how the 6MT guys drive. In the sense that almost all people who are tracking the car will buy 6MT this is definitely true on average. That aside, even on the street, most 7AT buyers are AT-type of people, and they just drive different, and will often use 'D', which keeps revs *way* down when you're light on the throttle, much lower than where I manual driver would usually hold them at light throttle. However, this isn't the case for me. I just came from spending 10 years behind a 6MT transmission, and I drive my 7AT as close to how you'd drive a manual as possible, and while I'll never approach full track conditions on the street (especially on the braking side of the equation), I'm running the car pretty aggressively.

Any chance that the extra gear in a 7AT is making a difference in temps? It is 7AT vs. 6MT, after all. I also agree with wstar that there may be differences in shifting behavior between the two. I know I sometimes have a tendency to leave it in a lower gear where I'm cruising with the rpms at 4k or higher, just because I want to have that instantaneous torque available. For example, maybe I'm anticipating that I'm about to open it up, so I opt to not bother with upshifting when I know I'll just need to shift back down a few seconds later. Or maybe I'm approaching a turn in 3rd gear. I'm going at a speed that warrants upshifting into 4th, but I leave it in 3rd with the engine wailing at 6000 rpms for a few seconds longer than seems natural because I know I'm about to nail the brakes and downshift into 2nd anyway. A 7AT isn't going to do that if it's left in D. In fact, even in manual mode, some drivers may not leave it in a lower gear like this, not when shifting back down is as easy as a flick on a paddle. (Plus they may actually enjoy flicking that paddle, right? So the more flicking that's necessary the better.) Well, over the time of a, say, 20-min spirited drive, my habit of leaving it in a lower gear in anticipation of an upcoming need for torque is probably going to translate into additional heat, and it'll add up quick, especially if I suddenly hit traffic and lose the cooling ability of free air flow to the radiator.

But having said all that, I have yet to see my temps go over 245. At the same time, however, I'm lucky enough that I have yet to run into heavy traffic at the tail end of a spirited drive. So take from this what you will.

I do the same thing you do in my 7AT (re holding onto lower gears to use the torque). In general, I control speed with the gears and gas pedal when at all possible, and I like have the revs up in a torque-happy area even in traffic so that I can use the engine to match speeds with the guy in front of me easier (whereas most native AT guys think of the gas as the go button and the brakes as the stop button, totally different way to drive).

I'm kinda stuck at home today waiting on Fedex with my gaskets so I can get them in tomorrow, so I won't get the chance for an extended drive during the day today. At some point this weekend after I get them installed, I'm going to put the camera back in my car for some sound clips anyways, I think I'll go out and try to push the oil temps up really hard and see how things are really doing lately with regards to the oil temps on my car, given my higher mileage and new synthetic oil, etc.

As wstar, and others have mentioned, there is a myriad of factors playing out here. Including that Nissan could have changed something that we do not know about in production. This means that certain model combinations as well as certain VIN numbers could be higher candidates for overheating. This is the reason documenting all matters we help us reach a better and faster conclusion leading to a resolution. What has yielded definitive results is that a properly sized oil cooler has solved the situation.

Having Nissan void a warranty because I installed an oil cooler is not a solution for me. If there are others installing an oil cooler, I would at the very minimum closely replicate or at least use the same Setrab oil cooler, or the actual Nissan oil cooler kit, should you end matters in a court dispute with Nissan. Nissan's sizing of the cooler core:

http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/370z.oilcooler1.jpg

2009 Nissan 370Z Touring: Oil Cooler Install and First Service

If you are following the Edmunds blog above some of the most logical, and damning comments are those regarding the Sport Package option as you would think—at the very least—that the Sport Package would be inclusive of an oil cooler.

That final graph of 7AT vs 6MT only compares temperature and transmission. There are an untold number of variables not accounted for in that comparison that makes a generalized assumption of "the 6MT overheats more than the 7AT" incorrect. For example, 6MT owners may be the vast majority of the cohort who tracks their cars, they may be confined to a geographic location that has a warmer climate, etc etc.

All you can say is that, as a whole, 6MT owners have noted higher temperatures than 7AT owners. However, the results in NO WAY imply that under the same conditions, with the same driver, at the same RPMs, the 6MT runs hotter.

With regard to the transmission plumbing through the radiator of the 7AT, I don't know how that would provide any form of oil cooling for the engine.

Well, I got my gaskets in so there was no point sitting around the house any longer today. Hot and sunny outside, so I went for another oil temp test drive. Car's ambient air sensor in the info display was in the 88-92 range throughout the drive. Even Intake air temp (on a scan tool) was ridiculously high, from the hot pavement and heavy traffic. I saw that go as low as 105 on the highway, but it ramped out to the 150's sitting in dead stop traffic backed up at traffic lights. The heavy friday afternoon traffic was not ideal conditions for running the car hard, but on the other hand it gave me the chance to see if temps would run away shutting the car down into traffic after a hard run too.

First off, I ate some lunch at Sonic and left the car idling the whole time (about 15 minutes) to heat-soak everything. Oil temp stabilized around 210-215. Then I went out and drove on the small streets in stoplight traffic. I made my best effort to stay above 4K when it wasn't totally absurd to do so. I'm sure everyone thought I was an idiot cruising around at a deafening 4-6K-ish in 20-30mph steady thick traffic, but whatever ;)

I was only able to get up to about 230-235 doing this, because there were too many stops waiting on stoplight traffic. Of note, however, is that every time I got stopped, the car would bring itself back into the 220-ish range just idling in hot traffic.

Then I went up onto the highway and got a couple of hard WOT runs in (one on the initial onramp, and another shortly thereafter exiting a toll plaza). That got me back to 240-ish cruising on the highway. Then I went ahead and downshifted and kept the revs in the 5-6K range (with occasional peaks above 7K when passing other cars) for a solid 4-5 minutes. This gradually brought the oil up to 260, which is where I decided to call it quits. No sense going over 260 willfully, imho, that's getting into dangerous territory, but it seemed likely that I could have kept on pushing it higher if I just kept doing what I was doing.

At that point I grudgingly forced myself to just flip it into D-mode and drive light the rest of the way back home. D-mode w/ light throttle tends to keep the revs way down, around 1.5-2K-ish when not accelerating. The car quickly brought itself back to about 245-250-ish before I could even exit the highway to U-turn back. By the time I got back to a steady-state speed on the return highway leg, it was back to 240 again. By the time I exited and got home (the furthest point in this trip was perhaps 5 miles from my place), it was back to 230. Given the extreme heat-soak it went through, I went ahead and popped the hood and put a fan in front of the car to idle it back down. It came back to 215 in about 5 minutes and seemed to stabilize about there for a couple more minutes, so then I garaged it and shut it off.

My overall thoughts:

Yes, I need an oil cooler. Days like this (and much worse) will be the norm here during the summer, and on a longer drive, the way I drive, I can easily see myself being oil-temp-limited. That said, the temperature never ran away from me, even when 'stuck in traffic' and such. The oil temp was purely a function of how hard I was abusing the engine at any given time. At any time, if I backed off the revs and the throttle, it brought itself back down in temp accordingly. I'm still not panicked about it, but today definitely moved up my plans to get an oil cooler installed sooner rather than later.

Edit: also, given the variations in oil temp behavior I've seen on different drives in different climate conditions, I think climate differences are playing a bigger role in this than I would have initially guessed.

Not sure why you would think that the distribution of AT owners geographically would be any different than the distribution of MT owners geographically... my guess is that outside the pattern of more ATs in the US vs abroad, the distribution within the US (hotter areas vs not) would be similar for AT v MT.

I'm going to pull the excel spreadsheet with all the variables in the survey, and if you're curious you can go in and analyze. It includes variables for usage, ambient temperatures, transmission, miles on the car, and of course overheating patterns.

Sounds good. I'm not criticizing. I'm just saying that comparing two variables is far from a multivariate analysis of the issue. So, we have to be careful of the conclusions we draw. The geographic pattern is just a possibility...you'd be surprised about things you discover when you look into them. Maybe 6MT owners are clustered around race-tracks which may be more copious in warmer locations. Conversely, cold weather snow drivers may prefer the control of a 6MT over a 7AT. Heck, maybe dealerships around the country have different availability of each transmission that could cluster the results. Just hypotheticals...

Agreed. Next I'd like to see the relationship between ambient temperature and oil temperature. I'm curious to know if it's linear. e.g. if my car hits 240 in 70F weather, would I be at 260 with the same driving in 90F weather and 280 if it's 110F outside?

Given that the water temps never change on the gauge, the oil temperature variations seem to be indicative of the car's dependence on airflow around the engine. It would be interesting to know if a ventilated hood and/or more powerful radiator fans would make a difference just as the oil cooler does.

Spearfish... I'm too lazy to do the analysis, but here's all the raw data... as it turns out, country/state was captured by my survey software using the IP addresses... so if you want, you can actually compare region... not sure you need to though, because respondents actually included their hotest ambient temperature as part of the survey, which is the variable you're really trying to get at... would welcome anyone to slice/dice this

SurveyReport-1224538-5-8-2009.xls - FileFactory

PS I've got a "+1 rep" waiting for whoever analyzes this data ! :)

I drove on Thunderbolt today and did full 25 minute sessions. It was extremely hot today in Millville, my temp gauge was reading over 80 degrees. My oil temp did not go past 260 with the Stillen Oil Cooler. The car quickly cools off once the revs go down. The oil coolers do work. I doubt a factory fix would be as nice. Plus the majority of so called "mechanics" working at Nissan dealers are total hacks.

You don't think that 260 even with the oil cooler is excessive heat?

Still sounds pretty hot.

I wonder how many other cars have oil temp problems that nobody even knows about. How many sports cars don't have oil temp gauges and protective limp modes? Kind if makes you wonder.

Id bet the 350z had high temps during track days. It had no limp mode associated with oil temps. I tracked my 350z quite a bit...i always changed the oil before the event, then immiediately after.

.

I have to say that lately when people have been asking me about the Z (a lot of people!) I tell them about how fun of a car it is to drive, but they should NOT buy one because there is a serious oil overheating problem that has gone totally unaddressed by Nissan. Then I go on to talk about how they supplied all the cars to the review mags with oil coolers (implying they knew oil temps were getting too high) then left them off of the factory production cars. They look at me and say "ohhhh." That typically ends that conversation, as it should.

:) Yeah..

It's probably true that they sorta shot themselves in foot on this one by even including an oil temp gauge. On the other hand, they probably did it precisely because they knew this engine could be pushed to overheat, and they wanted the driver to have the feedback to know to drop the revs and save it, at least. Someone just dropped the ball along the way on the factory cooler option.

I don't think it was a dropped ball, I think it was "bean counters". They knew the issue existed, hence the magazine demo cars equiped with oil coolers.

John

Doh!!
 

Ok, this was a serious tactical mistake. By everyone using the SAME case #, we've compromised the scope of the problem by minimizing it's apparent impact.

For instance, when the bean counters "run the numbers" to see if they should spend the money on some "corrective" action, they'll run a query against their database to find all the cases related to "oil over-heating" and all 100 people that used the same case # will get UNDER REPORTED as a single "instance" of the problem.

Now, all you yahoo's that did this, CALL BACK at the 800 number below, DON'T ask for Jennifer, just discuss the issue with the rep and get your case and case # recorded in the system.

DON'T BE OVERLOOKED!! BE COUNTED!!

Peak 260.. I don't care as long as my revs aren't restricted. It cools very quickly, unlike stock. Get that cooler hooked up yet?

I'm in a similar situation. The 370z is the car that I really want but this oil temp issue really has me holding back. I live in Vegas where driving in traffic when it's 115+ outside can be a reality. Even worse if I get caught in traffic going back to California while going through Baker where it can hit over 120+. It really sucks that this is becoming such a big issue. Sadly there aren't many other choices of cars to choose from. We already have an 06 Vette so I'm not sure getting a 2nd Vette is what I want. I kind of like the STI but I'm not 100% sold on the whole hatch thing, especially with only 305hp. Hopefully Nissan settles this issue soon so I can get a 370z. If not I guess I'll stick with my old Z's. I mean hell, my 77 280z may not be as fast but it won't over heat the engine either.

I've posted a preliminary analysis in the Oil Temp Survey thread. Check it out here: http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-g...-survey-2.html or the link below.