Do I want PAOs?

[Volcom370Z]

I hate to be that guy, but reading the other oil threads on this site doesn't really answer any questions. I'm looking for a full syn oil. I hate how everywhere I seem to look, there is a website pushing Amsoil like its f***ing Amway or some pyramid scheme. Its enough to make me not buy it. I've been a fan of Mobil 1 but if Amsoil is truly better, is it worth it? I've read that Mobil 1 is now fully PAO synthetic, therefore, it should be on par with Amsoil these days right?

Ive come to the conclusion that the Nissan Ester oil may good for noise reduction, but if this engine is built with certain clearances and noise is a byproduct, then so be it. The Ester is simply a creature comfort thing. Therefore I want a full syn. I'm just making sure that these two oils are the two full syn oils to pick from correct? RP and redline are ester based, and I'd prefer the longer drain interval.

I've also been reading nothing but great things about German Castrol. Anyone using it? Also, I live in LA (it can get kinda hot), would I have issues with a 0w-30? I get pretty confused with that stuff. When the engine is cold the oil should thicken anyway right? So why would the winter rating matter to anyone not in the arctic?

thanks!

[Volcom370Z]

Im not trying to start another oil thread... just trying to make the most educated decision...

[ChrisSlicks]

The Winter weight is the SAE viscosity rating of the oil at 0F, while the second number is the SAE viscosity rating at 210F (i.e. full operating temperature). At a 210F operating temperature 0W-30 and 10W-30 will have the same viscosity (but different shear characteristics).

The closer your engine oil is to operating viscosity when it is started the less startup wear there will be, so theoretically the 0W oils have the advantage there, although the advantage is greatly diminished in warmer climates.

If you regularly get your engine hot (250+) then the larger concern becomes how much is the oil going to break down over time? Even some so called premium oils have been known to turn into complete garbage after 1K miles if the oil is run at high temperatures. So it is in your best interest to do your own research based on the type of driving that you do.

[Rob@AAMComp]

I have a cousin that works at Exxon/Mobile headquarters in VA. After speaking with their engineer, they say that Mobile1 "should" be fine although they have not finished testing it. He was also concerned with noise and long-term wear characteristics on the tension surface on the timing assembly, but upon initial testing results, he said it should not cause harm or reduce reliability.

On the alternative, there is Motul Ester available as well. We have used this oil for both racing and street applications without issues.

[Volcom370Z]

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

So it is in your best interest to do your own research based on the type of driving that you do.

I do a lot of spirited canyon carving and highway driving.

I have also been reading that the Mobil 1 0w-30 and german Castrol 0w-30 are pretty close to 5w-30 as it is.

Im just wanting a full PAO syn, but it seems hard to pick the truth out of all the BS propoganda stuff out there. I do know I don't want AMSOIL

Thanks for the help...

[cossie1600]

I have used AMsoil 5W40 on my 350Z, it was the best oil for that car. (Car was noticeablelly more quiet)

I have also used Amsoil 5W30 on my Corvette, didn't see much of a difference.

I will be using AMsoil 0w20 on my Prius and most likely on the 370z at 5000 miles

[ChrisSlicks]

Originally Posted by Volcom370Z

I do a lot of spirited canyon carving and highway driving.

I have also been reading that the Mobil 1 0w-30 and german Castrol 0w-30 are pretty close to 5w-30 as it is.

Im just wanting a full PAO syn, but it seems hard to pick the truth out of all the BS propoganda stuff out there. I do know I don't want AMSOIL

Thanks for the help...

Some of the M1 formulations break down severely with temperature, so be careful. Worst report was 240F flash point after 1100 miles and a track day in a BMW running 290F oil temps. Granted you are probably not getting it that hot unless you are canyon carving pretty hard, and if you are then well you probably need an oil cooler. There is a lot of info to be picked out of bobistheoilguy.com, just need to figure out what applies to you.

[gumpy]

Originally Posted by Volcom370Z

I hate to be that guy, but reading the other oil threads on this site doesn't really answer any questions. I'm looking for a full syn oil. I hate how everywhere I seem to look, there is a website pushing Amsoil like its f***ing Amway or some pyramid scheme. Its enough to make me not buy it. I've been a fan of Mobil 1 but if Amsoil is truly better, is it worth it? I've read that Mobil 1 is now fully PAO synthetic, therefore, it should be on par with Amsoil these days right?

Ive come to the conclusion that the Nissan Ester oil may good for noise reduction, but if this engine is built with certain clearances and noise is a byproduct, then so be it. The Ester is simply a creature comfort thing. Therefore I want a full syn. I'm just making sure that these two oils are the two full syn oils to pick from correct? RP and redline are ester based, and I'd prefer the longer drain interval.

I've also been reading nothing but great things about German Castrol. Anyone using it? Also, I live in LA (it can get kinda hot), would I have issues with a 0w-30? I get pretty confused with that stuff. When the engine is cold the oil should thicken anyway right? So why would the winter rating matter to anyone not in the arctic?

thanks!

Get a fully syn with ester in it... like Motul 300v and you've got all your bases covered.

People here use Redline, the stuff is just too expensive for me but yeah... I use Royal Purple but may consider Motul 300V next

[LiquidZ]

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

The Winter weight is the SAE viscosity rating of the oil at 0F, while the second number is the SAE viscosity rating at 210F (i.e. full operating temperature). At a 210F operating temperature 0W-30 and 10W-30 will have the same viscosity (but different shear characteristics).

The closer your engine oil is to operating viscosity when it is started the less startup wear there will be, so theoretically the 0W oils have the advantage there, although the advantage is greatly diminished in warmer climates.

If you regularly get your engine hot (250+) then the larger concern becomes how much is the oil going to break down over time? Even some so called premium oils have been known to turn into complete garbage after 1K miles if the oil is run at high temperatures. So it is in your best interest to do your own research based on the type of driving that you do.

Chris, I hope you don't mind me chiming in here. I just want to make some clarifications to your post as it is a common misconception when discussing motor oil.

The first number in a multi-viscosity oil, the 5 in 5w30 for example, is a number that simply indicates how easily an engine can turn over in colder temperatures. It is not however, a viscosity. Based on what you said, a 5w30 oil would have a lower "weight" when cold, and a higher "weight" when hot. This might make sense on the surface, but to my knowledge, there is no fluid on Earth that thickens when hot, and thins when cooler.

In conclusion, a 5w30 oil will be thicker at cold temperatures than when it is at operating temperatures.

Again, not trying to be an *** here. I just wanted to clarify something

[ChrisSlicks]

No problem.

Yes, it's not the viscosity "value" just the SAE rating index. The oil must exceed a certain viscosity index in order to qualify for a specific SAE rating. The lower the rating, the thiner the oil.

The split ratings such as 5W-30 simply imply that at 0F the oil behaves like a straight SAE 5 oil, and at 210F behaves like a straight SAE 30 oil. SAE ratings are always at 210F so yes I can see where what I wrote above might confuse some. Despite how much "stretch" the oil has it will always get thicker as it gets cooler, it's just a matter of how much.

The other thing to consider is to generate a large stretch such as 0W-40, many different base oils are mixed together to give it this characteristic. At very high temperatures the base oils used to generate the low temperature characteristics can break down, degrading the oil's performance and lowering its flash point.

[Volcom370Z]

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

No problem.

Yes, it's not the viscosity "value" just the SAE rating index. The oil must exceed a certain viscosity index in order to qualify for a specific SAE rating. The lower the rating, the thiner the oil.

The split ratings such as 5W-30 simply imply that at 0F the oil behaves like a straight SAE 5 oil, and at 210F behaves like a straight SAE 30 oil. SAE ratings are always at 210F so yes I can see where what I wrote above might confuse some. Despite how much "stretch" the oil has it will always get thicker as it gets cooler, it's just a matter of how much.

The other thing to consider is to generate a large stretch such as 0W-40, many different base oils are mixed together to give it this characteristic. At very high temperatures the base oils used to generate the low temperature characteristics can break down, degrading the oil's performance and lowering its flash point.

So I know that a 0w will help someone in cold weather, but how could it not also help someone in warmer weather? Thinner oil is easier to pump right? Therefore a 0w should be suitable for just about anyone? sorry if I sound dumb on the matter... just trying to figure this thing out

[ChrisSlicks]

Originally Posted by Volcom370Z

So I know that a 0w will help someone in cold weather, but how could it not also help someon in weather? thinner oil is easier to pump right? therefore a 0w should be suitable for just about anyone? sorry if I sound dumb on the matter... just trying to figure this thing out

Correct. A 0W weight is a thinner viscosity than a 5W or a 10W and hence even at warm temperatures will be better for your engine at start up. But as I said before the light weight oils are the ones that break down first at high temperatures, so if you are canyon carving and your oil temp is hitting 260+ on a regular basis then it might not be the right choice for you even though it might be the right choice for a commuter car.

[Volcom370Z]

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

Correct. A 0W weight is a thinner viscosity than a 5W or a 10W and hence even at warm temperatures will be better for your engine at start up. But as I said before the light weight oils are the ones that break down first at high temperatures, so if you are canyon carving and your oil temp is hitting 260+ on a regular basis then it might not be the right choice for you even though it might be the right choice for a commuter car.

So, what do you recommend? I know its personal preference, but what would be a good oil that I can do a little bit of everything with?

[ChrisSlicks]

Go with a quality synthetic containing PAO, and preferably some esters in stock weight of 5W-30. There are thousands of different esters so it is impossible to tell which brand uses which ester base, and none of them may be the ones that Nissan is using but they are all good at reducing wear in some way.

I'm not going to recommend any specific oil, but I would avoid the standard M1 oil in any high temperature engine. If you want to use M1 use the EP oil.

As for filters, the following are the best in terms of construction and filtration:
Puralator PureOne
K&N
Mobil 1 Extended Performance
Bosch Distance Plus