Do I want PAOs?

Volcom370Z

Im not trying to start another oil thread... just trying to make the most educated decision...

ChrisSlicks

The Winter weight is the SAE viscosity rating of the oil at 0F, while the second number is the SAE viscosity rating at 210F (i.e. full operating temperature). At a 210F operating temperature 0W-30 and 10W-30 will have the same viscosity (but different shear characteristics).

The closer your engine oil is to operating viscosity when it is started the less startup wear there will be, so theoretically the 0W oils have the advantage there, although the advantage is greatly diminished in warmer climates.

If you regularly get your engine hot (250+) then the larger concern becomes how much is the oil going to break down over time? Even some so called premium oils have been known to turn into complete garbage after 1K miles if the oil is run at high temperatures. So it is in your best interest to do your own research based on the type of driving that you do.

__________________
Hotchkis ARB | Stillen CAI | Art Pipes | Berk CBE | Stillen AP Racing Brakes | AE Performance Oil Cooler | BC Racing ER Coilovers | Doran Control Arms

Volcom370Z

I do a lot of spirited canyon carving and highway driving.

I have also been reading that the Mobil 1 0w-30 and german Castrol 0w-30 are pretty close to 5w-30 as it is.

Im just wanting a full PAO syn, but it seems hard to pick the truth out of all the BS propoganda stuff out there. I do know I don't want AMSOIL

Thanks for the help...

ChrisSlicks

Some of the M1 formulations break down severely with temperature, so be careful. Worst report was 240F flash point after 1100 miles and a track day in a BMW running 290F oil temps. Granted you are probably not getting it that hot unless you are canyon carving pretty hard, and if you are then well you probably need an oil cooler. There is a lot of info to be picked out of bobistheoilguy.com, just need to figure out what applies to you.

__________________
Hotchkis ARB | Stillen CAI | Art Pipes | Berk CBE | Stillen AP Racing Brakes | AE Performance Oil Cooler | BC Racing ER Coilovers | Doran Control Arms

LiquidZ

Chris, I hope you don't mind me chiming in here. I just want to make some clarifications to your post as it is a common misconception when discussing motor oil.

The first number in a multi-viscosity oil, the 5 in 5w30 for example, is a number that simply indicates how easily an engine can turn over in colder temperatures. It is not however, a viscosity. Based on what you said, a 5w30 oil would have a lower "weight" when cold, and a higher "weight" when hot. This might make sense on the surface, but to my knowledge, there is no fluid on Earth that thickens when hot, and thins when cooler.

In conclusion, a 5w30 oil will be thicker at cold temperatures than when it is at operating temperatures.

Again, not trying to be an *** here. I just wanted to clarify something

__________________

ChrisSlicks

No problem.

Yes, it's not the viscosity "value" just the SAE rating index. The oil must exceed a certain viscosity index in order to qualify for a specific SAE rating. The lower the rating, the thiner the oil.

The split ratings such as 5W-30 simply imply that at 0F the oil behaves like a straight SAE 5 oil, and at 210F behaves like a straight SAE 30 oil. SAE ratings are always at 210F so yes I can see where what I wrote above might confuse some. Despite how much "stretch" the oil has it will always get thicker as it gets cooler, it's just a matter of how much.

The other thing to consider is to generate a large stretch such as 0W-40, many different base oils are mixed together to give it this characteristic. At very high temperatures the base oils used to generate the low temperature characteristics can break down, degrading the oil's performance and lowering its flash point.

__________________
Hotchkis ARB | Stillen CAI | Art Pipes | Berk CBE | Stillen AP Racing Brakes | AE Performance Oil Cooler | BC Racing ER Coilovers | Doran Control Arms

Volcom370Z

So I know that a 0w will help someone in cold weather, but how could it not also help someone in warmer weather? Thinner oil is easier to pump right? Therefore a 0w should be suitable for just about anyone? sorry if I sound dumb on the matter... just trying to figure this thing out

ChrisSlicks

Correct. A 0W weight is a thinner viscosity than a 5W or a 10W and hence even at warm temperatures will be better for your engine at start up. But as I said before the light weight oils are the ones that break down first at high temperatures, so if you are canyon carving and your oil temp is hitting 260+ on a regular basis then it might not be the right choice for you even though it might be the right choice for a commuter car.

__________________
Hotchkis ARB | Stillen CAI | Art Pipes | Berk CBE | Stillen AP Racing Brakes | AE Performance Oil Cooler | BC Racing ER Coilovers | Doran Control Arms

Volcom370Z

So, what do you recommend? I know its personal preference, but what would be a good oil that I can do a little bit of everything with?